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emu88

Original Poster:

48 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Ok we are selling our car, it is up for sale now with 1 years MOT, and tax until the end of THIS November. Our insurance though expires in 3 days, on 11th November. I know we either need to renew our insurance or declare a SORN, but my question is can we declare the SORN WITHOUT cashing in the tax disk since it only has 3 weeks left? I could then continue to advertise the car for sale with a SORN and 3 weeks of tax remaining so the new buyer only would need to get insurance done.

BUT are DVLA likely to notice this in the 3 week period and fine me £100?

If so, should I declare a SORN, cash the tax disk and advertise as with no tax? Or will this really crap out my chances of selling?

Red Devil

5,968 posts

93 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
If you don't renew the insurance you won't be able to take any potential buyer for a test drive. Also VED refunds are in whole months. You won't get any money back now on disc expiring at the end of November.


emu88

Original Poster:

48 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Yes but could take for a quick spin around the block. Or, the buyer, if on temp insurance, could drive right?

Edit: Or couldn't I declare a sorn but keep tax disc as there' under 1 month left on it, then do daily insurance for a day a buyer wants to test drive and then re-declare a SORN online in the evening?

Edited by emu88 on Thursday 8th November 19:34


Edited by emu88 on Thursday 8th November 19:34

SS2.

8,006 posts

123 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
emu88 said:
Yes but could take for a quick spin around the block.
Whilst uninsured ? I wouldn't..

emu88 said:
Edit: Or couldn't I declare a sorn but keep tax disc as there' under 1 month left on it, then do daily insurance for a day a buyer wants to test drive and then re-declare a SORN online in the evening?
The act of purchasing Day Insurance would not 'un-SORN' a vehicle, so there would be no point in trying to re-declare.

The specifics have been discussed to death on here previously, and opinions differ on the matter. FWIW, I'm one of those thinks that once a SORN declaration has been made, the vehicle is effectively unlicensed. This would mean that even if you held on to the tax disc, you would run the risk of being nabbed for licensing offences if you went out on a test drive.

Rock and a hard place..


LoonR1

18,921 posts

62 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
You won't get done that quickly. Even if the system spews out a letter immediately, it gives you 14 days to rectify before spewing out another letter giving you more time to sort it.

Not the end of the world that many would have you believe, but as they all live in a binary world, they all drive everywhere dead on the speed limit too and have never, ever broken any rules.
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Engineer1

10,412 posts

94 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
SORN cancels your Tax or at least registers on the system as un-taxed, the tax disc becomes invalid and is effectively a voucher that is reducing in value each month you choose not to get the refund.

emu88

Original Poster:

48 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Ok great thanks everyone. And thanks Loon1, I thought so too!

Ss2 I don't understand how taxing a car that is has a SORN does not unSORN it. What does it do to the SORN status then?

I think what I will do then is wait til 11th November when insurance expires, get a SORN and then sell within the three weeks of tax remaining. If someone wants a quick spin round the block I will do that, but if they want a road test drive and are serious I will get daily insurance. But now I am thinking why bother to SORN at all? Couldn't I just leave it uninsured and not drive it for those same three weeks? If the system is as slow as you say and they have to give me 2 weeks to act on any letters then surely it won't matter?

SS2.

8,006 posts

123 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
emu88 said:
Ss2 I don't understand how taxing a car that has a SORN does not unSORN it.
Re-taxing a car cancels SORN, but that wasn't what you said - you suggested that you need to SORN after day insuring a vehicle (which wouldn't cancel SORN).

emu88 said:
Couldn't I just leave it uninsured and not drive it for those same three weeks? If the system is as slow as you say and they have to give me 2 weeks to act on any letters then surely it won't matter?
Probably / very likely not, although a contravention of the CIE regulations nonetheless.

And I still wouldn't advocate driving 'just around the block' whilst uninsured. For someone else's benefit, it just wouldn't be worth the risk.

One solution to this would be to insist that the test driver brings with them proof of insurance - their own 3rd party DOC cover, for instance.

emu88

Original Poster:

48 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Oh yes quite right. So if I declare it sorn after my ins expires will my tax be invalid, or could I carry on using it for the last 3 weeks in practice? If the latter than I will just do that. We are leaving the country hence the need for a quick sale, but yes insisting on documentary proof of insurance for a test drive is a good idea.

BertBert

8,227 posts

96 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
I'd do nothing now. Do day insure to show any prospective buyer and respond to any communication from DVLA if you get any.
Bert

LoonR1

18,921 posts

62 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
emu88 said:
Oh yes quite right. So if I declare it sorn after my ins expires will my tax be invalid, or could I carry on using it for the last 3 weeks in practice? If the latter than I will just do that. We are leaving the country hence the need for a quick sale, but yes insisting on documentary proof of insurance for a test drive is a good idea.
SORN means Statutory Off Road Notice ie you're making a declaration that the car will NOT be used on the road. That speaks for itself ie the tax in invalid.

emu88

Original Poster:

48 posts

35 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Excellent, thanks a lot for all your help guys. I will do nothing!

Any buyers for an X reg automatic Micra now? biggrin

TwigtheWonderkid

11,822 posts

35 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
LoonR1 said:
You won't get done that quickly. Even if the system spews out a letter immediately, it gives you 14 days to rectify before spewing out another letter giving you more time to sort it.

Not the end of the world that many would have you believe, but as they all live in a binary world, they all drive everywhere dead on the speed limit too and have never, ever broken any rules.
This is true, although it does seem a strange state of affairs that in order to catch uninsured drivers, law abiding motorists are forced into a position of effectively breaking the law to go about their daily business. You are unlikely to get penalised in 3 weeks, but you shouldn't be forced into that position in the first instance.

Poorly thought out legislation, and it's debateable whether it's achieving what it was designed for anyway.

LoonR1

18,921 posts

62 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
This is true, although it does seem a strange state of affairs that in order to catch uninsured drivers, law abiding motorists are forced into a position of effectively breaking the law to go about their daily business. You are unlikely to get penalised in 3 weeks, but you shouldn't be forced into that position in the first instance.

Poorly thought out legislation, and it's debateable whether it's achieving what it was designed for anyway.
Here we go again. It's poorly thought out in your opinion. It's not poorly thought out in my opinion.

Some agree with it (tends to be those closer to the impact), some disagree ( tends to be those who think any law that can affect a minority adversely should be scrapped).

As I've said many times I can come up with some reasons that any law is adversely affecting normally law abiding citizens.

BertBert

8,227 posts

96 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
LoonR1 said:
SORN means Statutory Off Road Notice ie you're making a declaration that the car will NOT be used on the road. That speaks for itself ie the tax in invalid.
That's a poorly thought out statement in my opinion. It certainly doesn't speak for itself without actually reading the legislation behind it.
Bert

KevinA4quattro

6,084 posts

165 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
BertBert said:
LoonR1 said:
SORN means Statutory Off Road Notice ie you're making a declaration that the car will NOT be used on the road. That speaks for itself ie the tax in invalid.
That's a poorly thought out statement in my opinion. It certainly doesn't speak for itself without actually reading the legislation behind it.
Bert
Why not? The statement appears very clear to me. I must admit to having read and analysed the legislation behind it though. According to the legislation you cannot declare SORN (whilst a valid road fundlicence is in effect) without returning the road fund licence disk. The DVLA sometimes chooses to accept a SORN notification without the return of the disk, probably on the grounds that they do not have to make a refund. It does not alter the fact that the road fund licence becomes invalid.

emu88

Original Poster:

48 posts

35 months

[news] 
Sunday 18th November 2012 quote quote all
Ok so another question just to make sure. Still have not sold the car but a guy is interested and may come to view in a few days. If he does not buy it though and the 2 weeks remaining road tax runs out then we will have no tax or insurance and will have to get a SORN. That sucks for selling though as cannot test drive. In that case can we take out 2 weeks insurance for example and then get 6 months road tax? Or does your insurance have to be valid for the length of road tax you are applying for? OR if i apply for road tax NOW when the current one still has 2 weeks left but i have no insurance, will that work?

LoonR1

18,921 posts

62 months

[news] 
Sunday 18th November 2012 quote quote all
emu88 said:
Ok so another question just to make sure. Still have not sold the car but a guy is interested and may come to view in a few days. If he does not buy it though and the 2 weeks remaining road tax runs out then we will have no tax or insurance and will have to get a SORN. That sucks for selling though as cannot test drive. In that case can we take out 2 weeks insurance for example and then get 6 months road tax? Or does your insurance have to be valid for the length of road tax you are applying for? OR if i apply for road tax NOW when the current one still has 2 weeks left but i have no insurance, will that work?
Now you're just trying to buck the system for the sake of it.

If you want the car to be taxed then insure it. Cancel the insurance when you've sold it.

Read your post again ad explain this to me:

You are afraid to use the car on the road with no tax, yet at the same time, you are trying to find a way to break the rule that says it must be insured if you want to maintain the tax status.

It seems bizarre to me that you are scared of one rule, but actively looking to break another.

BertBert

8,227 posts

96 months

[news] 
Sunday 18th November 2012 quote quote all
KevinA4quattro said:
BertBert said:
LoonR1 said:
SORN means Statutory Off Road Notice ie you're making a declaration that the car will NOT be used on the road. That speaks for itself ie the tax in invalid.
That's a poorly thought out statement in my opinion. It certainly doesn't speak for itself without actually reading the legislation behind it.
Bert
Why not? The statement appears very clear to me. I must admit to having read and analysed the legislation behind it though. According to the legislation you cannot declare SORN (whilst a valid road fundlicence is in effect) without returning the road fund licence disk. The DVLA sometimes chooses to accept a SORN notification without the return of the disk, probably on the grounds that they do not have to make a refund. It does not alter the fact that the road fund licence becomes invalid.
It looks to me as if you have very adequately illustrated my point, thanks. The legislation tells you what SORN means, the name "statutory Off Road Notice" does not give any specifics at all.
Bert

LoonR1

18,921 posts

62 months

[news] 
Sunday 18th November 2012 quote quote all
BertBert said:
It looks to me as if you have very adequately illustrated my point, thanks. The legislation tells you what SORN means, the name "statutory Off Road Notice" does not give any specifics at all.
Bert
You must lead a really boring life to be that pedantic. Is it to do with your feelings of inadequacy in only having 1 CSE?

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