Parking Fine - to pay or not to pay.........?

[simon1987]

I got a parking ticket the other week.

I just rang them up and pleaded ignorance and financial hardship and they wrote it off.


I was definitely in the wrong as well.

[PurpleMoonlight]

The fee you paid was to park in a designated space, the fact that you failed to do so is your misfortune.

The fine is for parking where you should not have.

Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Saturday 18th May 19:32

[Terminator X]

Private or LA ticket? I always contest LA tickets just to inconvinience the bds.

TX.

[PurpleMoonlight]

hutch2196 said:

Point is I paid for something that I didn't have, so it's £41 due, by my reasoning!

No, you paid for something that you didn't use by your own actions.

[ATTAK Z]

Offer them a tenner ... in fact send them a cheque for ten pounds in full an final payment ... good game or what ?

[streaky]

Terminator X said:

Private or LA ticket? I always contest LA tickets just to inconvinience the bds.

TX.

If parking at Guildford railway station is covered by the Railway By-laws ...

Railway By-laws made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority said:

(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place.

(4) In England and Wales
(i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.

(ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.

(iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall be liable to an Operator or an authorised person for the costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed and stored by an Operator or an authorised person and that
the costs incurred by an Operator or an authorised person for this may be recovered from the vehicle’s owner.

(iv) The power of clamping and removal provided in Byelaw 14(4)(ii) above shall not be exercisable in any area where passenger parking is permitted unless there is on display in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped and/or removed by an Operator or an authorised person.

Streaky

[PurpleMoonlight]

hutch2196 said:

No I paid for something that was unavailable, due to inadequate capacity.

Then appeal the fine on that basis.

[PurpleMoonlight]

hutch2196 said:

Thank you, that was my plan. Lets see how we get on

You won't win if it's a pay and display after parking of course, only if you paid at a barrier and were then granted entry but there was nowhere to actually park legitimately.

[streaky]

hutch2196 said:

Yes my fine is covered by that by-law not sure that the extract helps any though, no mention of designated spaces.

(1) Only if the parking is covered by the By-laws. Not all railway station parking is so covered. If the parking at Guildford is covered, it will say so on the PCN.

(2) See sub-section (3) above. This covers your transgression. There is no requirement to state specific 'offences'.

Streaky

[premio]

Is it £50 reduced to £25 if paid in 14 days?

I know Guildford station well. Is it the carpark town side or the back? Where in which carpark did you leave your car, doesn't seem to be many spots to leave it in other than the permit holder spots unless it wasn't in a bay at all?

I think you'll end up paying the full £50 sadly.

[streaky]

hutch2196 said:

streaky said:

(1) Only if the parking is covered by the By-laws. Not all railway station parking is so covered. If the parking at Guildford is covered, it will say so on the PCN.

(2) See sub-section (3) above. This covers your transgression. There is no requirement to state specific 'offences'.

Streaky

Streaky

Yes the PCN does refer me to these by-laws. Still cant see reference to 'offences' in sub-sect (3) though?? Am I missing something

Apologies. It is 14(2), not 14(3): "(2) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway:
(i) in any manner or place where it may cause an obstruction or hindrance to an Operator or any person using the railway; or
(ii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or on behalf of an Operator or an authorised person."

Streaky

[Vipers]

hutch2196 said:

Purple

No I paid for something that was unavailable, due to inadequate capacity. .

So you paid for a space before you found a space?

[herewego]

hutch2196 said:

Purple

Got that, my fault as stated. But they don't aggregate fines, so I'd have the same fine for having had no ticket and not parking in a designated space. Point is I paid for something that I didn't have, so it's £41 due, by my reasoning!

You paid for a days parking. Did you get a days parking or did you find the car in the street when you got back?

[Who me ?]

Large numbers of station carparks are statyed to be owned by the rail franchises .( EG Virgin Rail). But in the ones I've used on the WCML, I've not seen any mention of railway bylaws ,and in the wording of their notices, no mention of the crime of breaching rail bylaws . I know that rail bylaws apply to access on the infrastructure ( track) as this is owned and run by now network Rail ( not a franchisee), but intresting point is if after privatisation, the rail by laws apply to private companies ( the franchisee's )

[Red Devil]

AFAIK Network Rail is the site landlord for all of the extant 2500+ stations. However the vast majority of them have the day-to-day management devolved to the TOCs. Network Rail directly manages all of the London termini except Marylebone plus the following
Birmingham New Sreet
Manchester Picadilly
Leeds
Liverpool Lime Street (High Level)
Glasgow Central (High Level)
Edinburgh Waverley

My understanding is that for a penalty to be imposed under Byelaw 14 there has to be a notice on display to that effect.

Railway Byelaw said:

14(4) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of any of Byelaws 14(1) to 14(3) may be liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.

However where a PPC is doing the enforcing it may not be that simple.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...

[streaky]

Who me said:

Large numbers of station carparks are statyed to be owned by the rail franchises .( EG Virgin Rail). But in the ones I've used on the WCML, I've not seen any mention of railway bylaws ,and in the wording of their notices, no mention of the crime of breaching rail bylaws . I know that rail bylaws apply to access on the infrastructure ( track) as this is owned and run by now network Rail ( not a franchisee), but intresting point is if after privatisation, the rail by laws apply to private companies ( the franchisee's )

It depends. Some car parks operated by PPCs still fall under the By-laws, some don't. Some operated by the franchisees fall under the By-laws, some don't. Some others do, some don't.

Check the notices in the car-park.

If the 'P' in PCN is 'Penalty', pay up. If it's 'Parking' you have a choice.

Streaky

[Who me ?]

Thanks, Streaky. Thought I'd mention it. When I and a lot of other vans parked in those car parks ,we did so acting as contractors to NR.However, I'd have loved to see someone brave enough to try and ticket those vehicles. I'd think someone might have to rescue the ticket person from a signal in the middle of a busy rail system .

[hutch2196]

PurpleMoonlight said:

hutch2196 said:

Thank you, that was my plan. Lets see how we get on

You won't win if it's a pay and display after parking of course, only if you paid at a barrier and were then granted entry but there was nowhere to actually park legitimately.

Well my letter of appeal did the trick, I deducted the fee paid from the fine and it was accepted, 'as an act of goodwill'. It was a pay and display after parking situation, so it pays to push your luck.

Thanks for the advice one and all.