So what do you say....
Discussion
.......... when you send a NIP back cos it took more than 14 days???
Lots of posts on here that say 14 days is the limit for plod to issue, but what do you write back to them??? Yep, got one to deal with , so advice would be much appreciated.
>>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 14th August 19:44
Lots of posts on here that say 14 days is the limit for plod to issue, but what do you write back to them??? Yep, got one to deal with , so advice would be much appreciated.
>>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 14th August 19:44
quote:
.......... when you send a NIP back cos it took more than 14 days???
Lots of posts on here that say 14 days is the limit for plod to issue, but what do you write back to them??? Yep, got one to deal with , so advice would be much appreciated.
>>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 14th August 19:44
dont bother ignore em and if you get a court date just
plead not gulty and with out the nip with the post date and it case droped the claim cost.
I'm interested in this as court case bit seems a bit much esp as if like I am you are self-employed (taking time off costs money). Do we have to got to court or just ignore the summons as well (doesn't seem very wise to me). Can one of the police confirm what we do about post 14day nips. Do we write back saying past 14days so as per the law it will be ignored. Very interesting post.
quote:
I'm interested in this as court case bit seems a bit much esp as if like I am you are self-employed (taking time off costs money). Do we have to got to court or just ignore the summons as well (doesn't seem very wise to me). Can one of the police confirm what we do about post 14day nips. Do we write back saying past 14days so as per the law it will be ignored. Very interesting post.
you can write back and it may well/should get droped.
then againg there a posabilty they will still try it on.
if ist past the 14 day theres no legal obligation for you to fill it in.
if it is taken to cort there is no case to answer instant not guilty, no case to answer
personaly i would let it get to cout and waste as much of there time as posible.
and plead not guilty and go the total wind up calobration carp and as much other crap and croxx exmination as i could think up at the time
to draw out the trial as long as posible .hope ing the trainie cps muppets that get silly speeding case dont spot whats comeing
only droping in the 14 day bit right at the last min
and then sticking them for costs.
a case like this you cant lose makes for a fun day out winding the local bench up and will give you pratis for the day you need it.
remember the whole set up is intended to intimidate the general public. dont be
dont be play em at there own game and have a crack while your doing it.
walking off with a big smile knowing this one cost em not you.
quote:
.......... when you send a NIP back cos it took more than 14 days???
Lots of posts on here that say 14 days is the limit for plod to issue, but what do you write back to them??? Yep, got one to deal with , so advice would be much appreciated.
>>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 14th August 19:44
Don't ignore it, it won't go away. Write back with a ice, firm letter explaining your position and why. I would suggest something like
"Having taken legal advice on the validity of the NIP, I advised that it has not been issued in accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. In particular it was posted on .... for an alleged offence on ...., an interval of more than 14 days. Should you chosse to proceed with this matter, I intend to challenge the validity of the notice and the competency of the prosecution. I would therefore be obliged if you would confirm within the next 7 days that no further action is being taken in this matter."
If the CPS do proceed, the onus is on you to prove their failure, so you need to appear in court with the NIP and envelope to show Police failing.
Note that some people are tempted to come to court and take up as much time as possible. It doesn't work like that. It's our day job. Were there all day everyday anyway, they're not. Who's inconvenienced and losing wages ?
quote:
quote:
.......... when you send a NIP back cos it took more than 14 days???
Lots of posts on here that say 14 days is the limit for plod to issue, but what do you write back to them??? Yep, got one to deal with , so advice would be much appreciated.
>>> Edited by mondeoman on Wednesday 14th August 19:44
Don't ignore it, it won't go away. Write back with a ice, firm letter explaining your position and why. I would suggest something like
"Having taken legal advice on the validity of the NIP, I advised that it has not been issued in accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. In particular it was posted on .... for an alleged offence on ...., an interval of more than 14 days. Should you chosse to proceed with this matter, I intend to challenge the validity of the notice and the competency of the prosecution. I would therefore be obliged if you would confirm within the next 7 days that no further action is being taken in this matter."
If the CPS do proceed, the onus is on you to prove their failure, so you need to appear in court with the NIP and envelope to show Police failing.
Note that some people are tempted to come to court and take up as much time as possible. It doesn't work like that. It's our day job. Were there all day everyday anyway, they're not. Who's inconvenienced and losing wages ?
never said any thing about wasting time of the bench
they aint worth the bother. and most aint got clue whats going on anyway.
like you said its just there play time for them thinking the beter than the rest on a little power trip.
wasting time is about money, time is money the the court cost money.
Thanks bob that makes far more sence than "leave it and waste their time" when its actually your own time thats wasted. The letter back sounds like a good idea, has anyone done this and did you still have to go to court? (I've not got one of these nips but the info. is always useful to know)
how does it stand on NIPs sent to the company of a company car driver that are outside the 14 days does it depend on who is the registered keeper thus whether it is reasonable to assume the police can identify the keeper from the DVLA records. ie if the V5 says fred smith contract hire and they write to them and get a reply in say 5 days the 14 days doen't start till they know who the car is contracted to.
Does this make sense if anyone can understand my witterings?
Does this make sense if anyone can understand my witterings?
) if its outside the 14 days from alleged offence to initial posting, then they can stuff it where the sun don't shine, no matter who the owner / driver / registered keper.I write from Calañ Forcat in Menorca, back in a few days but the weather is not so good so I have managed to find a cybercafe.
The system is
Date of offence is the critical date for the 14 days.
Providing the NIP is served within the 14 days from the offence date, then it does not matter how long after that date you receive it.
For instance if you have moved within the short time that the offence occurred and the NIP was sent to your old address then the service is good. Therefore if the people at your old address send it on and it does reach you for 21 days, 21 months, 21 years, the service is still good.
The statutory limit on proceedings is 6 months in most traffic matters except Insurance and VEL offences where it is 3 years.
This means that the Police have to lay the information in summons form before a magistrate or magistrates clerk for signing. Once this is done within the 6 month period then the summons can be served even 6 years later and is still valid.
Do not under any circumstances ignore a summons as eventually you will get an early morning call from the paddy van and a short ride straight to the dock of the local Magistrates court, normally at the most inconvenient time for you!!!
The system is
Date of offence is the critical date for the 14 days.
Providing the NIP is served within the 14 days from the offence date, then it does not matter how long after that date you receive it.
For instance if you have moved within the short time that the offence occurred and the NIP was sent to your old address then the service is good. Therefore if the people at your old address send it on and it does reach you for 21 days, 21 months, 21 years, the service is still good.
The statutory limit on proceedings is 6 months in most traffic matters except Insurance and VEL offences where it is 3 years.
This means that the Police have to lay the information in summons form before a magistrate or magistrates clerk for signing. Once this is done within the 6 month period then the summons can be served even 6 years later and is still valid.
Do not under any circumstances ignore a summons as eventually you will get an early morning call from the paddy van and a short ride straight to the dock of the local Magistrates court, normally at the most inconvenient time for you!!!
But haven't we been down this path before, and "technically" the Police should have sent the item Recorded Delivery. Something stupid about once its been posted, its assumed/classed as received.
I'm sure an FAQ would solve the endless questions (Ted?), but then again, don't want to leave yourself open to prosecution for false info on the site.
C'mon, if news like this doesn't give you some sort of get out clause (combined with the Registered post thing), I don't know what will.
From BBC News site (13 Aug 2002)...
"500,000 letters lost each week
The Royal Mail is to introduce more measures to stop post going astray, as it admits about half a million items go missing each week."
Paul
>> Edited by salty on Thursday 15th August 11:50
I'm sure an FAQ would solve the endless questions (Ted?), but then again, don't want to leave yourself open to prosecution for false info on the site.
C'mon, if news like this doesn't give you some sort of get out clause (combined with the Registered post thing), I don't know what will.
From BBC News site (13 Aug 2002)...
"500,000 letters lost each week
The Royal Mail is to introduce more measures to stop post going astray, as it admits about half a million items go missing each week."
Paul
>> Edited by salty on Thursday 15th August 11:50
I got a NIP for my previous motor (2 years after selling it) and I wrote back explaining this with the enclosed form with the new owner's details.
Two weeks later I get another form with a nasty reminder about it being my duty, etc...
I call them up and they say that first class post is not regarded as acceptable proof of them receiving my letter. So it's one rule for them and another for us.
I ended up faxing it!
Two weeks later I get another form with a nasty reminder about it being my duty, etc...
I call them up and they say that first class post is not regarded as acceptable proof of them receiving my letter. So it's one rule for them and another for us.
I ended up faxing it!
quote:
I got a NIP for my previous motor (2 years after selling it) and I wrote back explaining this with the enclosed form with the new owner's details.
Two weeks later I get another form with a nasty reminder about it being my duty, etc...
I call them up and they say that first class post is not regarded as acceptable proof of them receiving my letter. So it's one rule for them and another for us.
I ended up faxing it!
thats why i woulden bother just wait till they try a court date and slap em with the post date there.
madcop said:
I write from Calañ Forcat in Menorca, back in a few days but the weather is not so good so I have managed to find a cybercafe.
The system is
Date of offence is the critical date for the 14 days.
Providing the NIP is served within the 14 days from the offence date, then it does not matter how long after that date you receive it.
For instance if you have moved within the short time that the offence occurred and the NIP was sent to your old address then the service is good. Therefore if the people at your old address send it on and it does reach you for 21 days, 21 months, 21 years, the service is still good.
The statutory limit on proceedings is 6 months in most traffic matters except Insurance and VEL offences where it is 3 years.
This means that the Police have to lay the information in summons form before a magistrate or magistrates clerk for signing. Once this is done within the 6 month period then the summons can be served even 6 years later and is still valid.
Do not under any circumstances ignore a summons as eventually you will get an early morning call from the paddy van and a short ride straight to the dock of the local Magistrates court, normally at the most inconvenient time for you!!!
Does a NIP always have to be sent for a speeding offence?The system is
Date of offence is the critical date for the 14 days.
Providing the NIP is served within the 14 days from the offence date, then it does not matter how long after that date you receive it.
For instance if you have moved within the short time that the offence occurred and the NIP was sent to your old address then the service is good. Therefore if the people at your old address send it on and it does reach you for 21 days, 21 months, 21 years, the service is still good.
The statutory limit on proceedings is 6 months in most traffic matters except Insurance and VEL offences where it is 3 years.
This means that the Police have to lay the information in summons form before a magistrate or magistrates clerk for signing. Once this is done within the 6 month period then the summons can be served even 6 years later and is still valid.
Do not under any circumstances ignore a summons as eventually you will get an early morning call from the paddy van and a short ride straight to the dock of the local Magistrates court, normally at the most inconvenient time for you!!!
Are there speeding offences for which the 14 day rule is irrelevant, such that one needs to worry for 6 months?
madcop said:
The statutory limit on proceedings is 6 months in most traffic matters except Insurance and VEL offences where it is 3 years.
This means that the Police have to lay the information in summons form before a magistrate or magistrates clerk for signing. Once this is done within the 6 month period then the summons can be served even 6 years later and is still valid.
Streaky
cheeky said:
Does a NIP always have to be sent for a speeding offence?
Are there speeding offences for which the 14 day rule is irrelevant, such that one needs to worry for 6 months?
Other offences can also be dealt with in the same way. The NIP and Driver Name Request (S172?) are part of the due process if you have not been dealt with at the roadside.Are there speeding offences for which the 14 day rule is irrelevant, such that one needs to worry for 6 months?
The 14 days is for expected delivery in the normal course of the post and starts the day after the suspected offence, so is 15. The delivery is to the registered keeper so if not you then it can be anytime. Also if your address has changed and is not updated on DVLA records this also nullifies the 14 day requirement.
The 6 months is for the laying of information to obtain a summons. The summons can be issued/delivered after the 6 months provided it complies with reasonableness.
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