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dreaddan
Original Poster
59 posts
37 months
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I was wondering what the legality of passing stationary traffic to get to a turn off.
The road has a junction that is controlled by a set of lights which also has a right filter, the road leads to a busy dual carrageway so is regually queing back past the light, occasionally queuing it's 100-200yrds from behind the lights.
I was wondering if it's legal to pass the traffic to take the junction?
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10 Pence Short
15,723 posts
44 months
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If anyone else in the queue in front of you also wants to use that lane I'd imagine you're walking a narrow line with Inconsiderate Driving. Otherwise, if your manoevre is safe and you don't contradict any traffic directions than I don't see why you would have a problem.
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GreenV8S
22,941 posts
111 months
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dreaddan said: I was wondering what the legality of passing stationary traffic to get to a turn off. Do you mean by passing them on the other side of the road? Don't see any fundamental reason not to as long as it's safe, doesn't involve crossing solid white lines, and is done with due care and attention to avoid inconveniencing anyone else.
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Stefluc
140 posts
36 months
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I remember a scenario like this from my early days as a new Traffic cop I was sat in a long line of slow moving rush hour traffic,with very little coming towards us the other way.
There was some minor junctions to our offside and whilst sat there I noticed in my offside door mirror a car driver drive towards me on the oppisite side of the road for about 400 to 500 yards then turn right a short distance in front of me.
I thought you cheeky B**t**d and proceeded to go after him and read him the riot act and then reported him for a due care. I submitted the summons and my now retired Sgt sent it back to me with a please speak note attached to it.
I went to see him and we discussed why it was a due care and the upshot of it was there had to some sort of evidence that showed that he had inconvenienced or endangered other road users,which he hadnt,therefore no offence.
This is what I have set my stall out as and I can even recall on my advanced driving course the same information from my instructor quote " REMEMBER IT IS NOT AN OFFENCE TO DRIVE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD IF THERE IS NO RESTRICTIONS,IT IS AN OFFENCE IF YOU CAUSE DANGER OR INCONVENIENCE TO ANY ROAD USER AND THAT INCLUDES PEDESTRIANS ".
So,I suppose what I say is doinfg it is not a problem up until you do any of the above and if you have to justify your actions due to a complaint or incident then you will just have to take the consequences.
Does that help you answer your question I thisnk it is simple as that.
Stefluc
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p1esk
2,725 posts
23 months
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A situation I've sometimes encountered is wanting to make a right turn off a single carriageway main road on which there is queuing traffic that stops me 50 yards or so before I reach the junction. In that case I'll sometimes go offside, passing a few cars in the queue and make the turn, but we need to look out for oncomers (obviously), and pedestrians who may step out from between cars in the queue, and we need to see that there will be no obstruction or risk of conflict in the road we wish to turn into. If we do it slowly and cautiously, and bear those things in mind, it seems legitimate to me.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
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dirty doug
112 posts
22 months
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Stefluc said: I remember a scenario like this from my early days as a new Traffic cop I was sat in a long line of slow moving rush hour traffic,with very little coming towards us the other way.
There was some minor junctions to our offside and whilst sat there I noticed in my offside door mirror a car driver drive towards me on the oppisite side of the road for about 400 to 500 yards then turn right a short distance in front of me.
I thought you cheeky B**t**d and proceeded to go after him and read him the riot act and then reported him for a due care. I submitted the summons and my now retired Sgt sent it back to me with a please speak note attached to it.
I went to see him and we discussed why it was a due care and the upshot of it was there had to some sort of evidence that showed that he had inconvenienced or endangered other road users,which he hadnt,therefore no offence.
This is what I have set my stall out as and I can even recall on my advanced driving course the same information from my instructor quote " REMEMBER IT IS NOT AN OFFENCE TO DRIVE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD IF THERE IS NO RESTRICTIONS,IT IS AN OFFENCE IF YOU CAUSE DANGER OR INCONVENIENCE TO ANY ROAD USER AND THAT INCLUDES PEDESTRIANS ".
So,I suppose what I say is doinfg it is not a problem up until you do any of the above and if you have to justify your actions due to a complaint or incident then you will just have to take the consequences.
Does that help you answer your question I thisnk it is simple as that.
Stefluc Quality answer from a man who knows what he is talking about. Also the PH 'raison d'etre' why we should have more trafpol & less scameras
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vonhosen
20,401 posts
44 months
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Stefluc said: I remember a scenario like this from my early days as a new Traffic cop I was sat in a long line of slow moving rush hour traffic,with very little coming towards us the other way.
There was some minor junctions to our offside and whilst sat there I noticed in my offside door mirror a car driver drive towards me on the oppisite side of the road for about 400 to 500 yards then turn right a short distance in front of me.
I thought you cheeky B**t**d and proceeded to go after him and read him the riot act and then reported him for a due care. I submitted the summons and my now retired Sgt sent it back to me with a please speak note attached to it.
I went to see him and we discussed why it was a due care and the upshot of it was there had to some sort of evidence that showed that he had inconvenienced or endangered other road users,which he hadnt,therefore no offence.
This is what I have set my stall out as and I can even recall on my advanced driving course the same information from my instructor quote " REMEMBER IT IS NOT AN OFFENCE TO DRIVE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD IF THERE IS NO RESTRICTIONS,IT IS AN OFFENCE IF YOU CAUSE DANGER OR INCONVENIENCE TO ANY ROAD USER AND THAT INCLUDES PEDESTRIANS ".
So,I suppose what I say is doinfg it is not a problem up until you do any of the above and if you have to justify your actions due to a complaint or incident then you will just have to take the consequences.
Does that help you answer your question I thisnk it is simple as that.
Stefluc For inconsiderate driving there is a requirement to show that somebody was actually inconvenienced, but there is no such requirement for DWDCA.
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GreenV8S
22,941 posts
111 months
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vonhosen said: For inconsiderate driving there is a requirement to show that somebody was actually inconvenienced, but there is no such requirement for careless driving. I'm not familiar with these offences, what constitutes inconsiderate and careless driving?
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vonhosen
20,401 posts
44 months
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GreenV8S said: vonhosen said: For inconsiderate driving there is a requirement to show that somebody was actually inconvenienced, but there is no such requirement for careless driving. I'm not familiar with these offences, what constitutes inconsiderate and careless driving? Inconsiderate is driving without reasonable consideration & careless is DWDCA. They are both Sec 3 RTA 1988, but they are two separate offences within it. Sec 3 RTA 1988 said: If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or public place, he is guilty of an offence. Driving without due care and attention is where driving falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver. In order to drive 'without reasonable consideration' it is necessary to cause some actual inconvenience to another road user.
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Swervin_Mervin
122 posts
65 months
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But surely you have to prove their actions were careless? Which, if they could see the route was clear before undertaking their manoeuvre, would be difficult no?
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vonhosen
20,401 posts
44 months
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Swervin_Mervin said: But surely you have to prove their actions were careless? Which, if they could see the route was clear before undertaking their manoeuvre, would be difficult no? As I said you only have to show that their driving fell below the standard with DWDCA. For that you can show the potential they have misjudged or not accounted for, rather than the actual as is the requirement with inconsiderate driving. For instance, single carriageway road one lane in each direction. You are in a queue of stationary traffic & the road towards is clear. There is a junction to the right about 100 yards ahead & you decide you want to go down the offside & turn right into that junction. Now if you didn't have sufficient lateral vision into the junction to be able to say that you could make it to the junction & turn into it safely (before anything could emerge from it towards you) & you decided to go, then that could be DWDCA (even if nothing did actually appear). If when you actually set off something did appear from it & head towards you, then that could be inconsiderate driving. Whether the actions amount to the offence or not is a matter of fact for the court to consider using the reasonable careful competent driver test (& remember stefluc's reaction from his post when he saw someone doing it).
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defblade
500 posts
40 months
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p1esk said: A situation I've sometimes encountered is wanting to make a right turn off a single carriageway main road on which there is queuing traffic that stops me 50 yards or so before I reach the junction. In that case I'll sometimes go offside, passing a few cars in the queue and make the turn, but we need to look out for oncomers (obviously), and pedestrians who may step out from between cars in the queue, and we need to see that there will be no obstruction or risk of conflict in the road we wish to turn into. If we do it slowly and cautiously, and bear those things in mind, it seems legitimate to me.
Best wishes all,
Dave. Then it turns out the second/third/whatever in the queue was planning on turning right as well, and simply queuing rather than going offside. Funnily enough, they failed to check their mirrors before turning... I'd want to be VERY sure what everyone else was doing before trying this one. I'm not in that much of a hurry as a rule.
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dudley71
19 posts
2 months
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Ahh - the filtering motorcyclist's daily nightmare: the impatient driver who nips out of traffic, often without indicating, always without looking in their side mirror. Not sure whether there's an offence committed, unless the centre line is an unbroken one, but it's nearly had me off many a time.
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spyder dryver
276 posts
43 months
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Similar situation. 100 yds of traffic queueing for town centre lights, left turn available 50yds before lights, mainly used, by those in the know, to bypass the lights. KEEP CLEAR painted on carriageway to allow oncoming traffic to make a right turn into said road.
Cars at the rear of the queue regularly go down the wrong side of the road then turn left through the gap generated by the KEEP CLEAR area.
To be fair the left turn is one way so there is no traffic coming out, but from the rear of the queue it is very difficult to see a pedestrian or ever-present mobility scooter crossing the side road.
I've witnessed several near misses as a driver and as a pedestrian and it's only a matter of time.
..a matter of time...gedditt? When you can't wait thirty seconds for the lights to change.
Geoff.
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dreaddan
Original Poster
59 posts
37 months
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Cheers I didn't think there was a issue.
Dan
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Mill Wheel
1,690 posts
23 months
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Our local council obviously don't like it - in Kendal, there is a right turn on a hill, with a centre lane to wait to turn, protected by 50 yards of hatching.
Cars regularly passed up to 100 yards of standing traffic to reach the centre lane and turn right with no significant accidents that I recall.
Last year the council put a traffic island at the start of the hatched area!
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10 Pence Short
15,723 posts
44 months
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I personally wouldn't make a habit of doing it, not only because it's a grey area in law, but also it's a fairly unexpected manoevre that leaves you open to the actions of unsuspecting motorists ahead of you. If anything were to happen, your road positioning doesn't look good.
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p1esk
2,725 posts
23 months
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10 Pence Short said: I personally wouldn't make a habit of doing it, not only because it's a grey area in law, but also it's a fairly unexpected manoevre that leaves you open to the actions of unsuspecting motorists ahead of you. If anything were to happen, your road positioning doesn't look good. Admittedly there's a few things to be wary of, but with suitable care I think it should not be ruled out completely. Best wishes all, Dave.
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