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willcove
Original Poster
36 posts
41 months
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I don't have off-road parking. When I got back home a few days ago there were no spaces in my street, so I ended up parking (legally) a few streets away and haven't touched the car since then. The weather's been terrible and the forecast for tomorrow is dire also, so I wasn't planning to go back to the car until Monday. However, I got a phone-call this evening from a friend who'd passed my car and noticed the police had put out "no parking" cones and stuck a notice on my windscreen, which says that the parking restrictions are because of anti-terrorism measures in respect of a Rememberance Day parade tomorrow morning and that any vehicles found parked in the street would be towed away and it will cost the owner/driver a fee to get it back.
I don't have issues with there being such a parking restriction. However, no notice of the restriction has apparently been given (i.e. no signs in advance etc.) So how on earth are motorists expected to know about it? Also, I question the legality of them towing away legally parked cars and charging the owner when adequate notice has not been given.
Now any car parked there at the start of the restricted period is almost certainly local. The police have access to the DVLA database, and so can identify the registered keeper and in almost all cases it would be easier and quicker to knock on the RK's door than to bring in a tow-truck. FWIW, there's only space for about half a dozen vehicles where I parked, so it would make sense to contact the RKs as soon as they'd put out the cones - and shove a notice through the letterbox if no answer. Since the vehicles are usually from just three streets, it wouldn't take them more than fifteen minutes to do this, it would show a lot more respect for the public, and stand a better chance of getting the street cleared than the bully-boy threats that possibly would not be seen by the owner.
For me, this is yet another example of police arrogance and their forgetting who pays their wages.
(rant over)
Will
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Deva Link
8,993 posts
72 months
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willcove said: forgetting who pays their wages. I think you should write and remind them. Did you not see the notices about this in your local paper? Everyone should always read the notices. Be hard luck if you were away on holiday and came back to a stonking removal and storage charge (assuming they hadn't crushed the car before you got back).
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Stefluc
140 posts
36 months
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I would say that all the residents in this street have been forewarned about this and it would have been reinforced with letters from both police and council.
The problem is you do not live in the street so would not know,however it could be that this has been happening for a number of years now and the residents are used to it.
It will be legal as there will have been permission from the council, and all the rest of the neighbours have moved there cars and yours is still there, at least they have came round and gave you a chance to move it rather than moving it then sending you the bill to get it back.
After all you werent to know and the same goes for the police etc that they were not to know that someone who lives a few streets away was going to park there car there because there was no spaces outside there house.
Now I dont want to start another thread off about who should be able to park where etc,all I can say is if you dont move it it will get moved and you will have to pay the release costs.
Stefluc
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bleesh
731 posts
81 months
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You also have to watch out for the local council 7 day tow away/crush policy.
My local council have this and I was fortunate in the past where my tax disk sticky holder decided to fall off and into the footwell whilst I was away on a 2 week holiday.
The car got slapped with a notice from the council as un taxed and I was given 7 days to sort it out otherwise the car would be removed.
Fortunately a neighbour contacted them and they waited until I got home - sort of left the charge "pending" - she'd read the notice, looked on the web site and told them the car was taxed :-)
As per the OP - why don't they check the database BEFORE writing the damn tickets??
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Furry Exocet
250 posts
8 months
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willcove said: For me, this is yet another example of police arrogance and their forgetting who pays their wages.
(rant over)
Will Was a good post until that point, I think you'll find you don't pay the wages
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willcove
Original Poster
36 posts
41 months
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Stefluc said: I would say that all the residents in this street have been forewarned about this and it would have been reinforced with letters from both police and council.
The problem is you do not live in the street so would not know, however it could be that this has been happening for a number of years now and the residents are used to it. Nobody lives in the street as there are no houses on it. Almost everyone who parks there out of trading hours live in one of three nearby streets. The friend who phoned me lives in an adjoining street and has had no notification. I've checked the local press for the last fortnight, and no notices have been issued therein. IIRC unless there are exceptional circumstances, the authorities must give seven days notice before towing away a vehicle and must give adequate notice of closing a road or imposing temporary restrictions. The utility companies all put out signs a week in advance of parking restrictions for planned work and I see no reason why the local authority should do likewise. Now they've been planning this parade for some time (probably since last Remembrance Day), so the circumstances are hardly exceptional and they've had more than adequate time to plan for and to notify residents. At the very best, they've been discourteous to the people they're meant to serve; at worst, they've acted unlawfully. You say that the police wouldn't know that someone from a few streets away had parked there. I disagree. That information is readily available to them. All they need do is run the registration numbers against the DVLA database - to which they have have easy access - to find out the address of every registered keeper involved. This isn't about who should be able to park where; it's about the police acting with due diligence. They have the right to require us to move our vehicles, and should use that right to ensure the street in question is clear. However, AIUI they have to actually tell the keeper to move the vehicle and are not entitled to take possession willy-nilly unless they cannot having exercised reasonable diligence contact the keeper and the circumstances are exceptional. Will
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willcove
Original Poster
36 posts
41 months
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Furry Exocet said: willcove said: For me, this is yet another example of police arrogance and their forgetting who pays their wages.
(rant over)
Will Was a good post until that point, I think you'll find you don't pay the wages They why does my council tax bill show an amount levied to pay for the local constabulary? The police should IMO remember that the public pay their wages; and they should treat the public with proper courtesy and respect. Will
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BDZ
22 posts
3 months
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willcove said: Furry Exocet said: willcove said: For me, this is yet another example of police arrogance and their forgetting who pays their wages.
(rant over)
Will Was a good post until that point, I think you'll find you don't pay the wages They why does my council tax bill show an amount levied to pay for the local constabulary? The police should IMO remember that the public pay their wages; and they should treat the public with proper courtesy and respect. Will Police officers also pay council and income tax same as everybody else, they aren't separate from "the public" in this regard. The average UK household pays about £180 a year from their council tax towards their local police, which just about covers the cost of one officer for a single day, or the cost of a single set of tyres for a patrol car. In other words the "we pay your wages" argument is irrelevant, and certainly doesn't entitle us the taxpayer to demand that the police do exactly whatever an individual wants, whenever they want. There's no reason that the police shouldn't be polite in most circumstances, but they're not paid to be your mate or to tell you what a wonderful law-abiding citizen you are and give you a pat on the back.
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EU_Foreigner
1,525 posts
53 months
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The police is funded by tax funds, so yes - we do pay their wages.
The fact that they pay tax just means that they contribute to the general public funds as well but 100% of their income is paid for by public funds.
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CharlieTwo
482 posts
36 months
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willcove said: Since the vehicles are usually from just three streets, it wouldn't take them more than fifteen minutes to do this, it would show a lot more respect for the public, and stand a better chance of getting the street cleared than the bully-boy threats that possibly would not be seen by the owner.
For me, this is yet another example of police arrogance and their forgetting who pays their wages. Why waste the time though? If they did it early enough, the majority of owners of those vehicles are probably returning to their vehicle between the cones being put out and notice added and will therefore know about it. That leaves only a few vehicles come tommorrow morning. Do you really think that they won't then run vehicles though the box to see if the R/O is local and go and ask them to move it? That is precisely what I'm doing early tomorrow morning - going out to the route of the parade, noting the vehicles there and sticking something through the door of the R/Os in the early hours. An hour before the parade we'll then be checking again and knocking on doors of any still left. If no response, that's the point where vehicles will be towed. If they didn't warn on their notice that those who don't move their motor will have them towed, you'd probably get a couple of people who'd decide they couldn't be bothered. They'd then complain when the car was towed that they weren't warned that that's what would happen if they didn't move it.
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willcove
Original Poster
36 posts
41 months
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CharlieTwo: you make a good point. Hopefully, that what my local constabulary would do. However, my main complaints are:
1. No adequate notice has been given; and
2. That towing and storage fees would be charged.
What would have happened if we'd gone away for the weekend in the other car? I suspect that we'd have returned to find your note through the door and possibly another telling us that we had to pay your towing and storage fees to get back a car that was legally parked in an area where there was no indication of the issue.
Since you seem to be an officer of the law, perhaps you could enlighten me as to which law or regulation permits the towing and storage at less than 24 hours notice in a case where the "no parking" requirement was known and planned months in advance?
Will
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oldsoak
2,406 posts
29 months
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Whilst you're arguing here, your car is being loaded onto a flatbed...unless you've already moved it, in which case what's all the fuss about? 
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turbobloke
33,214 posts
87 months
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willcove said: Since you (CharlieTwo)seem to be an officer of the law, perhaps you could enlighten me as to which law or regulation permits the towing and storage at less than 24 hours notice in a case where the "no parking" requirement was known and planned months in advance?
Will Wasn't this in your OP - the Terrorism Act 2000 or 2006 or whichever whenever ?! Obviously it's the new Ways and Means Act.
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willcove
Original Poster
36 posts
41 months
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oldsoak: The issue here is police discourtesy to the public, their lack of consideration, and lack of fairness. AFAICT, all constabularies now have a charter or similar that promises to treat the public fairly - and their actions here seem contrary to that.
turbobloke: The notice said the restriction was an anti-terrorist measure. However, no legislation was cited and I can't find anything that permits the police to seize vehicles that are legally parked. AFAICT they have the power to search, but not to seize or remove unless the search reveals an offence that permits it. I've found traffic legislation that permits the police to restrict use of roads (i.e. parking and/or access) under certain circumstances and to remove vehicles that contravene those restrictions, but the circumstances here don't seem to fit. IOW, I strongly suspect that the police don't have the power to seize/remove; but I could be wrong which is why I asked someone who claims to be on the front line for the actual legislation.
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oldsoak
2,406 posts
29 months
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willcove said: oldsoak: The issue here is police discourtesy to the public, their lack of consideration, and lack of fairness. AFAICT, all constabularies now have a charter or similar that promises to treat the public fairly - and their actions here seem contrary to that. In spite of serving officers on here telling you what they will be doing this morning? A-la checking reg no's and knocking on doors before the need to tow becomes necessary?
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willcove
Original Poster
36 posts
41 months
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oldsoak said: willcove said: oldsoak: The issue here is police discourtesy to the public, their lack of consideration, and lack of fairness. AFAICT, all constabularies now have a charter or similar that promises to treat the public fairly - and their actions here seem contrary to that. In spite of serving officers on here telling you what they will be doing this morning? A-la checking reg no's and knocking on doors before the need to tow becomes necessary? Yes! 1. Those posting to this thread are not necessarily the officers who police where I live; so there was no guarantee that's what they'd do. 2. Even if they didn't tow away (and they haven't), they've handled this badly and without the fairness and courtesy the public should expect. At worst they've lied to the public by threatening actions the law doesn't permit and/or that they did not intend to carry out.
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hora
4,874 posts
38 months
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Furry Exocet said: willcove said: For me, this is yet another example of police arrogance and their forgetting who pays their wages.
(rant over)
Will Was a good post until that point, I think you'll find you don't pay the wages They are PUBLIC SERVANTS. So who does?
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oldsoak
2,406 posts
29 months
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willcove said: oldsoak said: willcove said: oldsoak: The issue here is police discourtesy to the public, their lack of consideration, and lack of fairness. AFAICT, all constabularies now have a charter or similar that promises to treat the public fairly - and their actions here seem contrary to that. In spite of serving officers on here telling you what they will be doing this morning? A-la checking reg no's and knocking on doors before the need to tow becomes necessary? Yes! 1. Those posting to this thread are not necessarily the officers who police where I live; so there was no guarantee that's what they'd do. 2. Even if they didn't tow away (and they haven't), they've handled this badly and without the fairness and courtesy the public should expect. At worst they've lied to the public by threatening actions the law doesn't permit and/or that they did not intend to carry out. Seems to me you're just miffed because you've nowhere to park. Probably because those who normally park in the street you were have been forewarned and moved. In so doing have pinched 'your' on street parking space. You now feel obliged to vent your spleen against those who are just doing what they're told to do to ensure the safety of everyone...yes including you. If it makes you feel any better the restrictions are only for today and I'm sure by this evening there will be plenty of spaces in your street where you can park.
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vonhosen
20,401 posts
44 months
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What relevance does wage paying have in all of this ?
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eldar
2,707 posts
23 months
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vonhosen said: What relevance does wage paying have in all of this ? Value for money, accountability, mayhaps? Foreign concepts to too many public servants, I know
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