duratec 2.0 or 2.3 ?
Discussion
Not that simple i'm afraid
The 2.3 WILL get more ultimate power, and it'll be at lower revs, but it isn't as well balanced as the 2.0. The extra 300cc's might be 'free power', but you're totally ignoring things like the torque curve, power delivery and smoothness.
You can sensibly get up to 250bhp with a 2.0, or 270bhp with a 2.3. Personally, if its a track day 7 I'd rather have a smoother, more linear power delivery than that bit of extra torque. If its a road car, especially an SV, i'd rather have the 2.3 for the extra torque and subsequent driveability, as you're not going to be revving the nuts off it all the time
I haven't driven either, but I have spoken to enough people, and done enough research into it to know that a 2.3 would have been better in my heavier Focus, although most tuners prefer the 2.0 to work with. Thats coming from a Caterham Racer who's an Automotive Engineering student!
The 2.3 WILL get more ultimate power, and it'll be at lower revs, but it isn't as well balanced as the 2.0. The extra 300cc's might be 'free power', but you're totally ignoring things like the torque curve, power delivery and smoothness.
You can sensibly get up to 250bhp with a 2.0, or 270bhp with a 2.3. Personally, if its a track day 7 I'd rather have a smoother, more linear power delivery than that bit of extra torque. If its a road car, especially an SV, i'd rather have the 2.3 for the extra torque and subsequent driveability, as you're not going to be revving the nuts off it all the time
I haven't driven either, but I have spoken to enough people, and done enough research into it to know that a 2.3 would have been better in my heavier Focus, although most tuners prefer the 2.0 to work with. Thats coming from a Caterham Racer who's an Automotive Engineering student!
Edited by megaoj on Friday 3rd November 18:18
It's easy to bullshit when you haven't actually driven either but "spoken to enough people". 
I haven't seen a dyno chart or even a claim for a 2.0 that's made 250bhp yet. I'm sure it can, but why so many 2.3's? I can't see why any engine tuner wants to make their life difficult by having less capacity given the choice. Given the capacity, the 2.3 can have tamer cams and have a more linear (smoother) torque curve than the 2.0 for the same power. If you just want revs for the sake of revs, get a motorbike engine...
For a track 7, torque is fun. For a race car, top end is all that matters.
In any case, each to their own opinion!
I haven't seen a dyno chart or even a claim for a 2.0 that's made 250bhp yet. I'm sure it can, but why so many 2.3's? I can't see why any engine tuner wants to make their life difficult by having less capacity given the choice. Given the capacity, the 2.3 can have tamer cams and have a more linear (smoother) torque curve than the 2.0 for the same power. If you just want revs for the sake of revs, get a motorbike engine...
For a track 7, torque is fun. For a race car, top end is all that matters.
In any case, each to their own opinion!
They certainly don't all say the same thing (wouldn't the world be a boring place). If you want power, 2.3 is the way to go. In fact, Mountune offer a 2.4, and I had a 2.5 this year. This was a suggestion by my tuner to get >300bhp. This figure would be touring car expensive for a 2.0. By dyno chart, I meant a UK one at some known exaggeration factor dyno.
So when you talk about "torque curve, power delivery, smoothness", the first two are better on the 2.3, and the last is irrelevant for a track/race car. What really counts is more power everywhere in the rev range.
So when you talk about "torque curve, power delivery, smoothness", the first two are better on the 2.3, and the last is irrelevant for a track/race car. What really counts is more power everywhere in the rev range.
There are other options to Cosworth - albeit they are the big name, but theres also : Dunnell, SBD, Mountune, Mamba to name a few.
The 2.3 is slightly cheaper to buy tuned than the 2.0 when looking to achieve the same power.
Another much cheaper option is the Vauxhall xe motor. Ask anyone, its a cracking engine. The performance version was designed by Cosworth believe it or not and you can find ''Coscast'' stamped on the earlier heads, however Vauxhall soon after cast these themselves and were of lower quality. Its very tuneable.
Then theres the ford sierra cosworth YB engine. This is an amazing motor, but for a 7 its best normally aspirated and tuned up, they sound amazing and much cheaper than a £10k Cossie He14.
Finally if you got loads of cash you can buy 2ltr ford BDA engine. Designed by Mike hall at cosworth and based on the x-flow bottom end, this is the king of ford motors. Upto 600bhp! but around £20k each!
The 2.3 is slightly cheaper to buy tuned than the 2.0 when looking to achieve the same power.
Another much cheaper option is the Vauxhall xe motor. Ask anyone, its a cracking engine. The performance version was designed by Cosworth believe it or not and you can find ''Coscast'' stamped on the earlier heads, however Vauxhall soon after cast these themselves and were of lower quality. Its very tuneable.
Then theres the ford sierra cosworth YB engine. This is an amazing motor, but for a 7 its best normally aspirated and tuned up, they sound amazing and much cheaper than a £10k Cossie He14.
Finally if you got loads of cash you can buy 2ltr ford BDA engine. Designed by Mike hall at cosworth and based on the x-flow bottom end, this is the king of ford motors. Upto 600bhp! but around £20k each!
dannylt said:
It's easy to bulls
t when you haven't actually driven either but "spoken to enough people".
For a track 7, torque is fun. For a race car, top end is all that matters.
Not too sure i'd agree with that comment, bhp sells car torque wins races as the saying goes, or words to that effect!t when you haven't actually driven either but "spoken to enough people". For a track 7, torque is fun. For a race car, top end is all that matters.
dan00001 said:
when you buy a new caterham 7 will they make it to fit a dutatec engine? on the cosworth website the 2.3 duratec engines with 220 bhp are priced at abot $10000 wich is about £5000.
The problem with stuff from the states is the exchange rate, and the import tax. As Faulds said its probably near £6 and a bit grand, just for the engine about another that and a bit for all the rest of the gear. For Duratec with high power and if thinking of importing formula atlantic use the mazda/ford duratec and they are around 300hp.If your looking for 300 the price can escalate, i think your around 1500 for a crank and 800 for con rods, 5-600 pistons, then there's head work bigger valves, exhaust primary work, this can possibly give you the power @ 8-9000 revs with plenty of torque. But you'll want to use some decent oil and change it regularly something like fuchs or royal purple at £80 a change. High power can start having effects on the rest of the cars components, snapped driveshafts regular caterham i think are 250 but you can get uprated ones for about the same but 3 times stronger 300m steel from drivelink.
The Vauxhall is heavier but if its not a race car then its probably not an issue, whatever route you go if its for road and occasional track use 200hp from a reliable engine is more than adequate and you can spend the money youve saved on trackdays/ ARDS/ racing.......the bird for a holiday!
Edited by sam919 on Saturday 5th September 09:44
BBL-Sean said:
BertBert said:
dannylt said:
...so I don't see why anyone would go for the 2.0 given a choice. By your argument the undersquare R500 engine is not revvy...
And there was me thinking the R500 was 2.0L.Bert
Bert
BertBert said:
BBL-Sean said:
BertBert said:
dannylt said:
...so I don't see why anyone would go for the 2.0 given a choice. By your argument the undersquare R500 engine is not revvy...
And there was me thinking the R500 was 2.0L.Bert
Bert
edit -- I should apologize, as in retrospect I think I ambushed you a bit. Anyway, my point is that dannylt's comment in 2006 could only have been about the 1.8L R500. No hard feelings, I hope.
Edited by BBL-Sean on Monday 7th September 05:42
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff