Caterham 7 or TVR
Discussion
Mars said:
Forgetting the forums/cllubs for a minute, and focussing entirely on the cars...
There are Caterhams and there are Caterhams. The same for the other brands you noted. What do you want from your weekend toy? Personally I want THE MOST dynamic experience I can, which is why I wouldn't be interested in anything LESS than the 244bhp Caterham I used to own.
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That, im afraid, is the voice of a true novice who really doesnt know a caterham.There are Caterhams and there are Caterhams. The same for the other brands you noted. What do you want from your weekend toy? Personally I want THE MOST dynamic experience I can, which is why I wouldn't be interested in anything LESS than the 244bhp Caterham I used to own.
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V7SLR said:
BC is an active virtual community with both a fair share of positives and plenty of mud-slinging. But it is ACTIVE. If I had to rely on this section of Pistonheads for my 7-comms "fix", I'd get pretty bored pretty quick! The members only rule split opinions, but what the heck it's not a large membership fee anyway (less than a tank of fuel is the usual comparison) and as a font of knowledge it's hard to equal. There is now the ability to post pictures albeit on a separate part of the L7C site, but there has been overwhelming support to keep BC simple and effective. Despite the rants from some ex-L7C-members, there is usually other undelying reasons why they would let their membership lapse. As with all Clubs you get out what you put in and there becomes very little room for too many members who are only takers, and unfortunately in today's fast moving world too many people who can do little more than take.
Stu.
Sounds like you are part of the management team. I don't have any beef with the L7 Club, I was just not getting much out of it and didn't really like going to club meets, where the same old stuff was talked about every week. My focus is now trackdays which I enjoy, and I enjoy doing them with other cars on the track and meeting different people, who don't all believe just becasue they own a Caterham, its the only 7 type car that derserves a mention. They are after all a kit car, the same as other kit cars, regardless of their origin Stu.
The technical aspect of Blat Chat is reasonable, but there are a few posters who think they know what they are talking about and actually don't. If membership is a tank of fuel, then I made the right decision. Just an opinion, grown ups can make up their own minds
sam919 said:
Mars said:
Forgetting the forums/cllubs for a minute, and focussing entirely on the cars...
There are Caterhams and there are Caterhams. The same for the other brands you noted. What do you want from your weekend toy? Personally I want THE MOST dynamic experience I can, which is why I wouldn't be interested in anything LESS than the 244bhp Caterham I used to own.
[/footnote]
That, im afraid, is the voice of a true novice who really doesnt know a caterham.There are Caterhams and there are Caterhams. The same for the other brands you noted. What do you want from your weekend toy? Personally I want THE MOST dynamic experience I can, which is why I wouldn't be interested in anything LESS than the 244bhp Caterham I used to own.
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you jest surely?...I presume Mars is a chap named Nigel?...if he is, then a novice he isn't....
V7SLR said:
"Sounds like you are part of the management team" ..... Nope!
Stu.
Then you need to be, as you sure preach the gospel. Long posts about how great the management team of the L7 Club, sort of what turns most people off, anoraks, come to mind.Stu.
Don't get me wrong, I have met loads of great Caterham owners (a lot of which don't bother with the club and just get on with driving their cars), but maybe its the "clubby" thing that just attracts some different individuals
Oh and Nige is not a novice by any stretch of the imagination.
casbar said:
....Caterham owners (a lot of which don't bother with the club and just get on with driving their cars), but maybe its the "clubby" thing that just attracts some different individuals
There are some very knowledgable people on BC, although there are a lot of sheep on there who tend to follow the herd and put certain individuals on a pedestal.
However, as much as people may criticise LF or the website, without *someone* organising things behind the scenes, nothing would be done. There is often an absence of people wanting to get stuck into the organising of things as they don't want the associated 'feedback' from the pure 'users' of said services....
I think quite a lot of poeple take out more than they put in, then become vocal about things.
I've not been a L7C member for a while now. Can't see the point.
fergus said:
However, as much as people may criticise LF or the website, without *someone* organising things behind the scenes, nothing would be done. There is often an absence of people wanting to get stuck into the organising of things as they don't want the associated 'feedback' from the pure 'users' of said services....
I think quite a lot of poeple take out more than they put in, then become vocal about things.
This is precisely how the Se7ens list differs. There is still a relatively small number of people who organise things (although the past two years has seen a relative explosion in the number of organisers), but non-organising-people understand the efforts that have gone into the work that the minority put into tours and appreciate that fact.I think quite a lot of poeple take out more than they put in, then become vocal about things.
Se7ens list isn't for everyone. It isn't for Caterhams-only and there are some who are less tolerant of the other brands but it's precisely this diversity that most of us like. My last Caterham was anything but standard. It's the little extras and differences that mark you out as an individual.
V7SLR said:
sam919 said:
If he can justify his statment then fair enough.
I own Mars old car ...... I can assure you he knows a thing or two about Caterhams!The original principle of Se7ening was low power and low weight. I've moved a long way from that but plenty of people don't believe it is right. I'm after MASSIVE dynamics in my toy car. Delicacy of feel is secondary to that in my book. In that regard you could question why I'd want a Caterham at all then, but it is so difficult to get any other car to offer such radical dynamics as a powerful Se7en. The Cerbera, at ~1250Kg, is close in sheer brutality, but at over double the weight of V7 (SVA'd at 520Kg I think) it will never handle like a Se7en. And the "wheels on display" aspect and general small size of a Se7en lends itself to pinpoint accuracy.
Accuracy and delicacy often go hand in hand but I think it's fair to say V7 is hardly delicate.
Having said that, I'm convinced the Freestyle inboard front suspension setup will reintriduce some of that lost delicacy and it's something I intend to pursue with the current build.BertBert said:
The problem is the phrase "dynamic experience" and how to maximise it. I think there's possibly better terminology for what Mars means.
Bert
Yeah probably. Replace with "uncompromisinly fast, brutal and basically harder-core than most other cars available". Begs the question why I don't try an Atom or Radical (they **can** be driven on the road) but I suppose the Se7en is the devil I know. The way it handles offer little surprise - it's sort of like an an old shoe.Bert
There's also the whole camaradarie-thing too. I know other cars attract their fanclubs, and I met a lot of nice people when I was in TVR-world, but I guess my first acquaintances were Se7eners and as a breed they are more my type of person. I think it's the whole willingness to get their own hands dirty when resolving a problem or building a more powerful engine. In that same way many of the spaceframe kit cars attract similar people, and many are on Se7ens.net.
It's all good.
Put simply, any Caterham is a fantastic experience - a stripped to the bone no compromise experience. Once you've owned one, nothing else really comes close. But I do accept that you can get the same from any decent, well setup 7esque car. I don't think one needs 244bhp to appreciate the car - our Superlight is a delightful thing, a jewel of a car...my R500 is an animal...and the Duratec R300 is to my mind the perfect blend of power and balance between the two.
I wouldn't mind a Cerbera 4.5 though but just haven't got room in the garage for one at the moment.
I wouldn't mind a Cerbera 4.5 though but just haven't got room in the garage for one at the moment.
But, the info that Mars isn't including here ......
He built a 244bhp barnstormer putting out 170lbs/ft of torque, max power just short of 8000rpm, but more importantly (to me) it clears 200bhp at 6000rpm!!!! And, it pulls strongly from around 1500rpm, and can return 38mpg if driven steady on a long run. Add to that the fact that at 520kg it has a full screen and weather gear, a big enough boot to tour with and mega grin factor and it's the near perfect 7!
He built a 244bhp barnstormer putting out 170lbs/ft of torque, max power just short of 8000rpm, but more importantly (to me) it clears 200bhp at 6000rpm!!!! And, it pulls strongly from around 1500rpm, and can return 38mpg if driven steady on a long run. Add to that the fact that at 520kg it has a full screen and weather gear, a big enough boot to tour with and mega grin factor and it's the near perfect 7!
V7SLR said:
But, the info that Mars isn't including here ......
He built a 244bhp barnstormer putting out 170lbs/ft of torque, max power just short of 8000rpm, but more importantly (to me) it clears 200bhp at 6000rpm!!!! And, it pulls strongly from around 1500rpm, and can return 38mpg if driven steady on a long run. Add to that the fact that at 520kg it has a full screen and weather gear, a big enough boot to tour with and mega grin factor and it's the near perfect 7!
Remind me of the mirriad of reasons I gave for selling it again Stu. He built a 244bhp barnstormer putting out 170lbs/ft of torque, max power just short of 8000rpm, but more importantly (to me) it clears 200bhp at 6000rpm!!!! And, it pulls strongly from around 1500rpm, and can return 38mpg if driven steady on a long run. Add to that the fact that at 520kg it has a full screen and weather gear, a big enough boot to tour with and mega grin factor and it's the near perfect 7!
More importantly, why am I trying to build another with a similar-ish spec?
[pedant mode]178lbft[/pedant mode]
I mention that because I remember clearly DW's expression of disbelief when he measured it. Apparently it was very close to the theoretical limit (torque/litre) for a 4-valve/cyl engine.
It was completely by accident though. I had designed the inlet length to **just** fit inside the bonnet without having to cut a hole. No more scientific than that. One of the Se7ens guys explained why a long inlet on a K was a good thing.
But I confess that I didn't know it did 38mpg.
Edited by Mars on Wednesday 30th December 22:20
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