1st track day in my r400d any tips?

[vantage83]

I'm gonna pop my track day cherry in my r400d.

May 7th at croft 105db.

I currently have 4mil on my tyres so I will need some before I would think.

Any advice on driving styles for a 7 on track.

Thanks

Dan

[Cool Hand Luke]

Hi,

You'll have a great time!

I would use up you old tyres if you can. I'm told that some of the race teams who have to use road tyres, specifically use well worn boots.

I had my first track day in my R400k last year, and what I noticed immediately is how much faster I was than those around. NOTHING to do with me, but rather the car. People forget that track days are full of roads, the vast majority of which are heavy and slow. I g'tee you will fly past everything within a lap or so. This really helps confidence as you don't have to constantly look in your mirror.

Only advice I would give is if you take a passenger, ask them not to try and communicate with once on track, as it ends up being useless sign language that you wont understand and will make you worried about what they are trying to say.

As for 7 handling tips, I'm no expert - I have noticed that you sometimes have to come off the gas early in a corner to get the front to grip, then you can adjust everything on the throttle. Be very smooth and gentle, and gently squeeze the throttle tends to encourage the dreaded under steer.

Other than that - take plenty of water and stay off the grog the night before, its hard thirsty work out there.

[vantage83]

Thanks luke!

I've been watching your vids Good skills.

I've already been thinking that compared to a lot of others the car would make me much faster.

I have asked to start in the novice group but I can move up if to quick.

So excited! Your tyres how much did you use?

[Sevdoc]

It's an open-pitlane type event, so we will all be on track together rather than separated by experience. A few Caterhams of R400 pace should be flying around, subject to the weather!
I'll be in the Orange car- looking forwards to it- see you there!
Neil

[JeffC]

great circuit to pop your cherry on particularly in a 7 , you can get away with a fair bit with Croft, just go steady on the braking bottom of the pit straight into clareveux (spelling) as the tyre wall isnt the best place to be! loads of time can be found in the jim clarks which are taken at speed in a 7 time you reach barcroft you will be over 110 but I wouldnt advise trying to get round flat or my balls are not big enough or it would compromise your entry into sunny in, or thats my excuse anyway

ps on the tyres.. I bought another set of rims and slicks for my R400d, the Cr500s do not have the best grip and are expensive to replace where as the slicks are £80 a set 2nd hand last for ages and provide loads more grip win win

Edited by JeffC on Friday 20th April 15:03

[pikeyboy]

Croft is a great circuit!

Take your time build up speed and confidence slowly. Try to learn the circuit in sections of say 3 or 4 four corners and then start stringing these together.
Take a decent pressure gauge for your tyres . Be gentle on the brakes and throttle also when coming off the brakes etc.

Enjoy yourself you'll have a ball.

Ps go with the old tyres, many racers would have them shaved to that tread level a caterham is a light car if driven sensibly you won't melt them.

[DCL]

Just enjoy and try not to worry too much about others on the track. As said, the R400 won't even break sweat keeping up with the bulk of the cars. As for tyre wear, it'll be higher at first as you'll probably be cautious and in understeer mode. With practice and as the confidence builds you'll balance the car better and get quicker, cleaner, and the tyre wear will wear less.

Good luck!

[john aston]

And remember- the entrance to Hawthorn looks like a chicane but is actually a right hander; that the hairpin is even tighter than you think ;and that Clervaux and Tower apices resemble the Nile Delta when wet! Have fun- about time my R400D tried Croft again !

[vantage83]

Neil my car is also orange.

I'm really looking forward to it can't wait.

I've spoke to Avon and they also recommend to use the tyres I have then fit new ones.

Who has track insurance? And at what cost?

[SkyUK]

DCL said:

As for tyre wear, it'll be higher at first as you'll probably be cautious and in understeer mode. With practice and as the confidence builds you'll balance the car better and get quicker, cleaner, and the tyre wear will wear less.

Good luck!

Please could you explain that one? I'm just sorting some finances out before I buy my first ever 7, so I'm here trying to learn as much as I can I understand understeer would cause tyre wear, but I'm not sure why understeer would be worse when you're being cautious, that seems counter-intuitive?

Cheers, Rich

[DCL]

SkyUK said:

Please could you explain that one? I'm just sorting some finances out before I buy my first ever 7, so I'm here trying to learn as much as I can I understand understeer would cause tyre wear, but I'm not sure why understeer would be worse when you're being cautious, that seems counter-intuitive?

Cheers, Rich

Most cars will naturally under-steer to provide stability. On a RWD car you can increase the amount the rear wheels slip by applying more throttle. With practice you apply enough throttle to cancel out the inherent under-steer.

I was just commenting one my own experience that tyre wear was greater as a track novice when I was being cautious and using too little throttle through the corners.

Edit: Thinking about it, cautious is the wrong word. It was more a case of just getting it wrong and lifting at the wrong place.

Edited by DCL on Saturday 21st April 00:15

[SkyUK]

DCL said:

SkyUK said:

Please could you explain that one? I'm just sorting some finances out before I buy my first ever 7, so I'm here trying to learn as much as I can I understand understeer would cause tyre wear, but I'm not sure why understeer would be worse when you're being cautious, that seems counter-intuitive?

Cheers, Rich

Most cars will naturally under-steer to provide stability. On a RWD car you can increase the amount the rear wheels slip by applying more throttle. With practice you apply enough throttle to cancel out the inherent under-steer.

I was just commenting one my own experience that tyre wear was greater as a track novice when I was being cautious and using too little throttle through the corners.

Edit: Thinking about it, cautious is the wrong word. It was more a case of just getting it wrong and lifting at the wrong place.

Edited by DCL on Saturday 21st April 00:15

I follow with the concept of countering understeer with some throttle action to cancel it with oversteer. But that would induce rear end slide to add to the front end slide, i.e. 4 wheel drift. I can see that skillful application of throttle would balance the car, but I can't figure why it would reduce front tyre wear as those tyres are still sliding? I'm just thinking theoretically having no experince yet.

Cheers, Rich

[coppice]

The quicker you go the more tyres you will use in my experience. In a relative sense - stared off slow , now steady to brisk.

[DCL]

A balanced car shares the cornering force across all the tyres and is usually within the slip angles that generate maximum grip. An under-steering car can exceed these angles (on the front) producing less grip and higher wear rate for the same speed.

I don't want to labour the point as the subject can get very complex. Lets just say, the less the car slides about, the less the tyres wear - and the driver has a lot to do with that.

Edit: a terrible diagram - but hopefully you'll get the drift.

Off to exile myself now!

Edited by DCL on Saturday 21st April 10:33

[JaseB]

I found front tyre wear when being a newbie was entering corners too quickly and scrubbing speed off with understeer, get the entry speed right and you have a quicker exit and balance with it.

[pikeyboy]

As a rule of thumb, many novices go too fast into slow corners and too slow into fast ones.

[SkyUK]

boy said:

As a rule of thumb, many novices go too fast into slow corners and too slow into fast ones.

Hehe, that makes sense. Low skill, high fear factor

[harry b]

The feared understeer, which I also had with my "heavy" 2.0XE engine, got much better after I decided the front ARB needed to have a life of his own somewhere in a field far from my car at a Hillclimb session.

Never regretted this move.

[SkyUK]

harry b said:

The feared understeer, which I also had with my "heavy" 2.0XE engine, got much better after I decided the front ARB needed to have a life of his own somewhere in a field far from my car at a Hillclimb session.

Never regretted this move.

Removing the ARB improved the understeer? Did I understand that correctly?

[harry b]

SkyUK said:

Removing the ARB improved the understeer? Did I understand that correctly?

Yes, by removing the front ARB the front softened up and hence got more grip. I should also have more body roll, but hardly noticable.
I could off course have stiffened up the rear, by stiffer springs or rear ARB, but this would in my opinion make the car unstable over bumpy and uneven roadsurfaces.
The removal of the front ARB was at the moment the quickest option, and removed the understeer.
Probably has also to do with my drivingstyle, being used to mid and rear engined cars where I tend to break the car into the corner, to have more bite on the frontwheels, a relatively stiffer rearend will then tend to more neutral to slightly oversteer.
Still have to go a long way to go to know all about the Caterham handling, so any input to put me in the right direction is very much apreciated by me. Never too old to learn and listen to good advice on these matters. We are not all seasoned Caterham trackday warriors.