CATERHAM V'S WESTFIELD
Discussion
if cost is a limiting factor then you get a westfield... very similar experience, fast, fun and all the usual kit-car ownership idiosyncracies. For many it works, but I would imagine that you need to be the sort of person who doesn't care for much for the badge, the heritage or the cosmetics.
As for handling, best way i can illustrate what i understand about a westfield's handling is a tale about a friend of mine. He ran an R500 for 2 years and >30 trackdays back when they first came out, Then he ran some other stuff for a bit (FPA single seater, pug 205, scooby sti) and then built a custom honda s2000 engined westfield running on nitrons. To get his westy as sweet or closer to the caterham he's had to do extensive development, way beyond the knowledge base of the westfield club forums I might add. The car has changed markedly in terms of turn in, balance & poise etc.. although I gather that he feels that it will never be as benign or as nimble as his old caterham. We are talking fine points here though... i guess it all depends on how particular you are about handling and how you like your cars. Many people would be more than happy with a factory westfield on stock geo and springs/dampers as an occasional trackday/we toy. Another friend Grame Finlayson also used to run a very well developed R1 powered car but it cost him a lot of money over the years.
main sticking points for me have always been the looks, and the very poor resale. If you can lay out more money then ultimately in a caterham you will arguably enjoy a better out of teh box product, have something nicer to look at, and lose less when that time comes to trade it up for a Juno SS3
As for handling, best way i can illustrate what i understand about a westfield's handling is a tale about a friend of mine. He ran an R500 for 2 years and >30 trackdays back when they first came out, Then he ran some other stuff for a bit (FPA single seater, pug 205, scooby sti) and then built a custom honda s2000 engined westfield running on nitrons. To get his westy as sweet or closer to the caterham he's had to do extensive development, way beyond the knowledge base of the westfield club forums I might add. The car has changed markedly in terms of turn in, balance & poise etc.. although I gather that he feels that it will never be as benign or as nimble as his old caterham. We are talking fine points here though... i guess it all depends on how particular you are about handling and how you like your cars. Many people would be more than happy with a factory westfield on stock geo and springs/dampers as an occasional trackday/we toy. Another friend Grame Finlayson also used to run a very well developed R1 powered car but it cost him a lot of money over the years.
main sticking points for me have always been the looks, and the very poor resale. If you can lay out more money then ultimately in a caterham you will arguably enjoy a better out of teh box product, have something nicer to look at, and lose less when that time comes to trade it up for a Juno SS3
thats what i was thinking but thought i'd ask! Currently i drive an old TVR S Series. Love it to bit's but to realy love it i would want to spend an awful lot of cash.. Therefore if im going to spend that sort of money and time would i not be better of buying a caterham kit and building a new car from scratch to my own spec and having a bit of that money back at the end with risidual value.
Cheers guys, very much the honest replies ive come to expect on pistonheads.
Cheers guys, very much the honest replies ive come to expect on pistonheads.
What an utter load of b
ks,
Build quality better in yer dreams mate! Caterham have sat back for years on there arses while you pay over the odds for a car with bought heritage, until the csr no development whatsoever was done by caterham where at least westfield have invested and updated the product to a level caterham can only dream about.
The westfield v caterham battle has been going on for years and by posting such a request on the caterham section suprise suprise at the answer you get.
Matt come over to www.wscc.co.uk register with the boardroom and post the same question, ok you will get some synical replies but on a whole you will get some constructive for's and against's
I heavily reserched and tried both makes when I decided to get involved with the lotus seven style of car and having now built two westfields costing well over 50k+ .All cars of both makes are as cheap and nasty or as expensive and immaculate as you want them to be and as for residualls go and pay over the top for a real 7 but check the chassis for rust first.
Must add that not all caterham owners are up themselves as I spent a month with 50+ this year in the states and on a whole are really nice people.
Barry
Edited to add now built three westfields and over 75k
>> Edited by Barry Ashcroft on Friday 2nd December 07:33
ks,Build quality better in yer dreams mate! Caterham have sat back for years on there arses while you pay over the odds for a car with bought heritage, until the csr no development whatsoever was done by caterham where at least westfield have invested and updated the product to a level caterham can only dream about.
The westfield v caterham battle has been going on for years and by posting such a request on the caterham section suprise suprise at the answer you get.
Matt come over to www.wscc.co.uk register with the boardroom and post the same question, ok you will get some synical replies but on a whole you will get some constructive for's and against's
I heavily reserched and tried both makes when I decided to get involved with the lotus seven style of car and having now built two westfields costing well over 50k+ .All cars of both makes are as cheap and nasty or as expensive and immaculate as you want them to be and as for residualls go and pay over the top for a real 7 but check the chassis for rust first.
Must add that not all caterham owners are up themselves as I spent a month with 50+ this year in the states and on a whole are really nice people.
Barry
Edited to add now built three westfields and over 75k
>> Edited by Barry Ashcroft on Friday 2nd December 07:33
Edited by Barry Ashcroft on Sunday 30th March 00:04
As Barry skillfully said, i think it comes down to what you want. Before i ran USA20005 i didn't know a lot of Westie owners, now i do and the ones along behave better than some Caterham owners. YMMV, but i personally believe that both companies have need to do investments to insure that they can stay viable businesses in a luxury car market, which is what these cars are effectively.
When we chose our Caterham SV, it was more because i liked the looks of it than the badge on the front of the car, which i believe is the case for both marks' owners. i have seen good and bad builds of both manufacturers' cars, so it comes down to the individual at the end of the day to do the best job possible. I have a VHPD Rover racing engine, but were i to do it today, would probably either try to cram in a Chevy V-8 shortblock, or realy research carefully which engine. That research could well lead me to go to Westfield and not caterham as the money i'd save vs. the badge would almost pay for a larger engine.
Were i in the market for a.n.other Se7enesque car at this point, having been around a number of V-8 Westies, i would have a second look at them. Especially after being around, hooning, and "racing" with Barry's V-8 monster. Caterham could easily offer a small block V-8 for the SV chasis, but continues to focus on the straight-4 market which sometimes escapes me. I have only driven Caterham's so i honestly don't know how responsive Westies are in rallye situations, which is something my wife and i do yearly with a group known as the Guild of Motor Endurance.
Look at it this way, whichever one pleases your eye and chequebook the most is the one you should buy. The rest is gravy
>> Edited by Steve-B on Friday 2nd December 10:01
When we chose our Caterham SV, it was more because i liked the looks of it than the badge on the front of the car, which i believe is the case for both marks' owners. i have seen good and bad builds of both manufacturers' cars, so it comes down to the individual at the end of the day to do the best job possible. I have a VHPD Rover racing engine, but were i to do it today, would probably either try to cram in a Chevy V-8 shortblock, or realy research carefully which engine. That research could well lead me to go to Westfield and not caterham as the money i'd save vs. the badge would almost pay for a larger engine.
Were i in the market for a.n.other Se7enesque car at this point, having been around a number of V-8 Westies, i would have a second look at them. Especially after being around, hooning, and "racing" with Barry's V-8 monster. Caterham could easily offer a small block V-8 for the SV chasis, but continues to focus on the straight-4 market which sometimes escapes me. I have only driven Caterham's so i honestly don't know how responsive Westies are in rallye situations, which is something my wife and i do yearly with a group known as the Guild of Motor Endurance.
Look at it this way, whichever one pleases your eye and chequebook the most is the one you should buy. The rest is gravy
>> Edited by Steve-B on Friday 2nd December 10:01
Lol, someone knows how to spark an argument.
A seven can be as good or as bad as you like, it just depends how much time you want to put in to it. Cost is only secondary to having a nice (or fast) car.
Perhaps you should build a Locost and save yourself £15k+
*ducks*
>> Edited by flak monkey on Friday 2nd December 17:07
A seven can be as good or as bad as you like, it just depends how much time you want to put in to it. Cost is only secondary to having a nice (or fast) car.
Perhaps you should build a Locost and save yourself £15k+
*ducks*
>> Edited by flak monkey on Friday 2nd December 17:07
hardly!
just look at my post above
i personally dislike westfields and am on my second caterham but do you see me knocking the westfield and declaring blind love for the "real thing" .... no, i gave an honest transparent answer selling them both as viable ownership options. ive also been privy to the 2 of the best developed westfields the world has ever seen so im hardly biased and emotionally attached !
they are cars..... buy, rag them then sell
get over it
>> Edited by jackal on Friday 2nd December 16:31
just look at my post above
i personally dislike westfields and am on my second caterham but do you see me knocking the westfield and declaring blind love for the "real thing" .... no, i gave an honest transparent answer selling them both as viable ownership options. ive also been privy to the 2 of the best developed westfields the world has ever seen so im hardly biased and emotionally attached !
they are cars..... buy, rag them then sell
get over it
>> Edited by jackal on Friday 2nd December 16:31
I've met some westfield drivers who are idiots
I have also met caterham drivers who are idiots
Conclusion: People are idiots
OTOH Sprinting this year I've met loads of great people who drive both Cats and Westies
As Barry says, spend a shit load of money and time, and you'll end up with a great motor
I have also met caterham drivers who are idiots
Conclusion: People are idiots
OTOH Sprinting this year I've met loads of great people who drive both Cats and Westies
As Barry says, spend a shit load of money and time, and you'll end up with a great motor
"No development at all done by Caterham"
Have you actually ever seen a Caterham? Over what timescale are we talking here? In the time Caterham have been making Sevens there have been numerous different chassis versions, the SV and continuous changes to the car. Each and every year little bits and pieces are changed by Caterham, not all of them are that exciting but it does happen.
I don't think I have seen anything developed by Westfield that leaves the Caterhams for dead?
Have you actually ever seen a Caterham? Over what timescale are we talking here? In the time Caterham have been making Sevens there have been numerous different chassis versions, the SV and continuous changes to the car. Each and every year little bits and pieces are changed by Caterham, not all of them are that exciting but it does happen.
I don't think I have seen anything developed by Westfield that leaves the Caterhams for dead?
[quote=dino ferrana]"No development at all done by Caterham"
Have you actually ever seen a Caterham?
Read his post and You'll find this "Must add that not all caterham owners are up themselves as I spent a month with 50+ this year in the states and on a whole are really nice people."
All I will say, is that if your looking for a seven, drive as many types as possible... make your own mind up as to which you prefer and not be swayed by so called 'Heritage'.
Have you actually ever seen a Caterham?
Read his post and You'll find this "Must add that not all caterham owners are up themselves as I spent a month with 50+ this year in the states and on a whole are really nice people."
All I will say, is that if your looking for a seven, drive as many types as possible... make your own mind up as to which you prefer and not be swayed by so called 'Heritage'.
I would have to agree with Flak Monkey, with the budget of my Locost i could build 3 Caterhams, not trying to say they're not nice cars but they are way over priced for what they are.
You should look at all the other kit companies first before you make your mind up.
Cheers. SCotty G.
You should look at all the other kit companies first before you make your mind up.
Cheers. SCotty G.
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