Help bring Carmageddon back
Discussion
Hello and good luck with Carma.
I was a big fan at the time (still am), and played both 1 and 2. In fact My brother and I played the time-limited demo of Carma 1 over and over and over and over. Which is a sign of a good game! Aside from the open world, one thing really stands out to me as the number one factor in their appeal. The Physics. The physics felt very very realistic in terms of how the cars spun, landed, took off, rode over bumps (or peds). I'm not sure who did the phsyics model for you and whether this was recognised at the time, but it was detailed, fault free and I really think it's important. I admit that physics is rarely recognised as being important - because people are trained to notice graphics and gore and things like that. I just think that's because we haven't woken up to how lifelike physics taps into something. As humans when something is very lifelike we can tell and it taps into our brains. It's also pretty clear from looking at youtube that the physics is what makes a game such as GTA so popular. Likewise angry birds... Cut the rope... Half life 2. All successful recent games with a LOT of attention to detail paid the physics. Even in the casual gaming genre it's there. With good physics a game will stand out from all the other shiny graphics alternatives that are already out there (pretty poor efforts most of them and not selling too hot either).
Good luck with it!
While I'm on the topic, anyone here tried to program physics before and able to give me a idea how much degree level maths is involved (if any)? In my mind it's A level maths and a bit of extra thinking, with some creative thinking to turn that into code... the hard part is to get it to run at a decent speed on the hardware.
I was a big fan at the time (still am), and played both 1 and 2. In fact My brother and I played the time-limited demo of Carma 1 over and over and over and over. Which is a sign of a good game! Aside from the open world, one thing really stands out to me as the number one factor in their appeal. The Physics. The physics felt very very realistic in terms of how the cars spun, landed, took off, rode over bumps (or peds). I'm not sure who did the phsyics model for you and whether this was recognised at the time, but it was detailed, fault free and I really think it's important. I admit that physics is rarely recognised as being important - because people are trained to notice graphics and gore and things like that. I just think that's because we haven't woken up to how lifelike physics taps into something. As humans when something is very lifelike we can tell and it taps into our brains. It's also pretty clear from looking at youtube that the physics is what makes a game such as GTA so popular. Likewise angry birds... Cut the rope... Half life 2. All successful recent games with a LOT of attention to detail paid the physics. Even in the casual gaming genre it's there. With good physics a game will stand out from all the other shiny graphics alternatives that are already out there (pretty poor efforts most of them and not selling too hot either).
Good luck with it!
While I'm on the topic, anyone here tried to program physics before and able to give me a idea how much degree level maths is involved (if any)? In my mind it's A level maths and a bit of extra thinking, with some creative thinking to turn that into code... the hard part is to get it to run at a decent speed on the hardware.
Edited by Pentoman on Monday 4th June 00:02
Pentoman said:
Hello and good luck with Carma.
I was a big fan at the time (still am), and played both 1 and 2. In fact My brother and I played the time-limited demo of Carma 1 over and over and over and over. Which is a sign of a good game! Aside from the open world, one thing really stands out to me as the number one factor in their appeal. The Physics. The physics felt very very realistic in terms of how the cars spun, landed, took off, rode over bumps (or peds). I'm not sure who did the phsyics model for you and whether this was recognised at the time, but it was detailed, fault free and I really think it's important. I admit that physics is rarely recognised as being important - because people are trained to notice graphics and gore and things like that. I just think that's because we haven't woken up to how lifelike physics taps into something. As humans when something is very lifelike we can tell and it taps into our brains. It's also pretty clear from looking at youtube that the physics is what makes a game such as GTA so popular. Likewise angry birds... Cut the rope... Half life 2. All successful recent games with a LOT of attention to detail paid the physics. Even in the casual gaming genre it's there. With good physics a game will stand out from all the other shiny graphics alternatives that are already out there (pretty poor efforts most of them and not selling too hot either).
Good luck with it!
While I'm on the topic, anyone here tried to program physics before and able to give me a idea how much degree level maths is involved (if any)? In my mind it's A level maths and a bit of extra thinking, with some creative thinking to turn that into code... the hard part is to get it to run at a decent speed on the hardware.
Thanks. We always set out to have the best physics, but it turned out better than that as we hired a young genius called Kev Martin who was just finishing his PhD In physics - at the age of 22. Says it all really!I was a big fan at the time (still am), and played both 1 and 2. In fact My brother and I played the time-limited demo of Carma 1 over and over and over and over. Which is a sign of a good game! Aside from the open world, one thing really stands out to me as the number one factor in their appeal. The Physics. The physics felt very very realistic in terms of how the cars spun, landed, took off, rode over bumps (or peds). I'm not sure who did the phsyics model for you and whether this was recognised at the time, but it was detailed, fault free and I really think it's important. I admit that physics is rarely recognised as being important - because people are trained to notice graphics and gore and things like that. I just think that's because we haven't woken up to how lifelike physics taps into something. As humans when something is very lifelike we can tell and it taps into our brains. It's also pretty clear from looking at youtube that the physics is what makes a game such as GTA so popular. Likewise angry birds... Cut the rope... Half life 2. All successful recent games with a LOT of attention to detail paid the physics. Even in the casual gaming genre it's there. With good physics a game will stand out from all the other shiny graphics alternatives that are already out there (pretty poor efforts most of them and not selling too hot either).
Good luck with it!
While I'm on the topic, anyone here tried to program physics before and able to give me a idea how much degree level maths is involved (if any)? In my mind it's A level maths and a bit of extra thinking, with some creative thinking to turn that into code... the hard part is to get it to run at a decent speed on the hardware.
Edited by Pentoman on Monday 4th June 00:02
That was in 1996, and he's still working for us (and on Carmageddon:Reincarnation) today.
I know I'm biased, but I still think that that Kev's system - even then - is better than that used in blockbuster games to this day.
In terms of attempting it, well there are a bunch of tiers here, each of which requires you to be more and more of a Kev:
1) 3D over 2D. Any old fool can write a 2D system like that in Angry Birds.
2) Optimisation - make it work in the real world, on real hardware.
3) Make it work all the time. Making it work in easy cases is easy. But I still see objects bouncing around and gaining energy even in Skyrim. What happens when multiple objects are all in collision at once? How do you stop them from doing things that look STUPID?!
4) Now for the killer: network physics. Make physics work over a laggy network connection and you really are a Kev!
Famous Graham said:
When I was growing up in the south of England, "a Kev" certainly didn't have any idea about physics 
I know - that's never been lost on us either. Why couldn't he have been Dr Erasmus Martin or Dr Maximillian Martin or something. Anything but "Kev". On the plus side though, at least he is "Doctor Martin".... ;-)Jesus I hope he never gets to read this!
Never been a pc gamer but can remember the hype when the originals were being released. I will be pledging and getting a copy of this.
Having never played the originals and looking at the idea of the game, is there a turbine powered car (similar design to the batmobile ) that as you hit an innocent pedestrian they get sucked through the turbine and sprayed out the back in a fountain of mushy pulp.
You should also have mothers with prams that when hit she get f
ked up but the baby flies into full view and out of shot, obviously landing safely somewhere out of shot 
Having never played the originals and looking at the idea of the game, is there a turbine powered car (similar design to the batmobile ) that as you hit an innocent pedestrian they get sucked through the turbine and sprayed out the back in a fountain of mushy pulp.
You should also have mothers with prams that when hit she get f
ked up but the baby flies into full view and out of shot, obviously landing safely somewhere out of shot Cunny DK said:
Never been a pc gamer but can remember the hype when the originals were being released. I will be pledging and getting a copy of this.
Having never played the originals and looking at the idea of the game, is there a turbine powered car (similar design to the batmobile ) that as you hit an innocent pedestrian they get sucked through the turbine and sprayed out the back in a fountain of mushy pulp.
You should also have mothers with prams that when hit she get fked up but the baby flies into full view and out of shot, obviously landing safely somewhere out of shot
Oh yes, we have plans for this sort of thing. Snow-blowers are great too, as are combine harvesters.Having never played the originals and looking at the idea of the game, is there a turbine powered car (similar design to the batmobile ) that as you hit an innocent pedestrian they get sucked through the turbine and sprayed out the back in a fountain of mushy pulp.
You should also have mothers with prams that when hit she get f
ked up but the baby flies into full view and out of shot, obviously landing safely somewhere out of shot Originally we wanted to have a pregnant woman ped whose foetus would splat on your windscreen, only to them be suddenly jerked away as the umbilical was still connected. However one of our artist's wives said he'd have to quit if we did this, and we realised ourselves that this was probably stepping over the 'funny' line. I do like the idea of the pram and the baby surviving though...
Batwick2 said:
Oh yes, we have plans for this sort of thing. Snow-blowers are great too, as are combine harvesters.
Originally we wanted to have a pregnant woman ped whose foetus would splat on your windscreen, only to them be suddenly jerked away as the umbilical was still connected. However one of our artist's wives said he'd have to quit if we did this, and we realised ourselves that this was probably stepping over the 'funny' line. I do like the idea of the pram and the baby surviving though...
Haha its not that far over the "jesus" reaction Originally we wanted to have a pregnant woman ped whose foetus would splat on your windscreen, only to them be suddenly jerked away as the umbilical was still connected. However one of our artist's wives said he'd have to quit if we did this, and we realised ourselves that this was probably stepping over the 'funny' line. I do like the idea of the pram and the baby surviving though...
Just have a big titted bimbo bird who's silicone implants splat the screen that leave a nice greasy patch on the road. Or send people in wheelchairs on a turbocharged ride into oblivion. The frantic screaming and waving arms from an in car shot would make me chuckle
Cunny DK said:
Haha its not that far over the "jesus" reaction
Just have a big titted bimbo bird who's silicone implants splat the screen that leave a nice greasy patch on the road. Or send people in wheelchairs on a turbocharged ride into oblivion. The frantic screaming and waving arms from an in car shot would make me chuckle
We really want to do wheelchairs and bicycles this time. Technically it's a bloody nightmare though, as you have a rag-doll physics object (the rider) insecting another physics object (the chair or bike). This causes all sorts of physics code problems when you collide with them.Just have a big titted bimbo bird who's silicone implants splat the screen that leave a nice greasy patch on the road. Or send people in wheelchairs on a turbocharged ride into oblivion. The frantic screaming and waving arms from an in car shot would make me chuckle
We will definitely try though!
Pretentious pr!cks on Segways would be good too...
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