Which Mini DV Camcorder?
Discussion
Hi guys
Looking to purchase a camcorder but as it's my first one I need a bit of guidance from the pros
Ideally I'm looking for one that is sub £500, is Mac OS X compatible and can be used on this
Having had a quick look on the net come across the following:
£353.96 - Sony DCR-HC42E Handycam MiniDV Camcorder [1Mp, 12x Optical, 2.7" Wide Hybrid LCD]
£228 - Sony DCR-HC19E Handycam MiniDV Camcorder [20x Optical Zoom, 2.5" LCD]
£199.14 - Canon MV800 MiniDV Digital Camcorder [20x Optical, 2.5" LCD]
£303.17 - Canon MV850i MiniDV Digital Camcorder [22x Optical, 2.5" LCD, DV in/out]
£429.99 - Canon MVX350i MiniDV Digital Camcorder [20x Optical, DV in/out]
£379.99 - Canon MVX330i MiniDV Digital Camcorder [18x Optical, DV in/out, Wide Screen]
£489.99 (was £799) - Canon MVX40 MiniDV Digital Camcorder [2.2Mp, 10x Optical, 2.5" LCD]
Can anyone recommend any of the above or perhaps suggest any alternatives?
Any help much appreciated!
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Wednesday 11th January 14:24
Looking to purchase a camcorder but as it's my first one I need a bit of guidance from the pros
Ideally I'm looking for one that is sub £500, is Mac OS X compatible and can be used on this
Having had a quick look on the net come across the following:
£353.96 - Sony DCR-HC42E Handycam MiniDV Camcorder [1Mp, 12x Optical, 2.7" Wide Hybrid LCD]
£228 - Sony DCR-HC19E Handycam MiniDV Camcorder [20x Optical Zoom, 2.5" LCD]
£199.14 - Canon MV800 MiniDV Digital Camcorder [20x Optical, 2.5" LCD]
£303.17 - Canon MV850i MiniDV Digital Camcorder [22x Optical, 2.5" LCD, DV in/out]
£429.99 - Canon MVX350i MiniDV Digital Camcorder [20x Optical, DV in/out]
£379.99 - Canon MVX330i MiniDV Digital Camcorder [18x Optical, DV in/out, Wide Screen]
£489.99 (was £799) - Canon MVX40 MiniDV Digital Camcorder [2.2Mp, 10x Optical, 2.5" LCD]
Can anyone recommend any of the above or perhaps suggest any alternatives?
Any help much appreciated!
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Wednesday 11th January 14:24
If you want to double your budget, this one should be ideal:
Sony DCR-PC1000. Features 3 CMOS (for better colour capture) and has had rave reviews from all of the online camcorder sites. Supposedly the best "matchbox" style camcorder going. Small, light and easy to use. Also features surround sound recording (through an optional special microphone). Perfect for track days...
ErnestM
Sony DCR-PC1000. Features 3 CMOS (for better colour capture) and has had rave reviews from all of the online camcorder sites. Supposedly the best "matchbox" style camcorder going. Small, light and easy to use. Also features surround sound recording (through an optional special microphone). Perfect for track days...
ErnestM
That's interesting, never even thought of a hard drive capable camcorder 
. Not in too much of a rush - I was gonna get the mount as a birthday present and treat myself to the camera .
Just had a quick look around, and have seen that JVC do one which is Mac compatible as well - see here
Looks quite good?
PP
. Not in too much of a rush - I was gonna get the mount as a birthday present and treat myself to the camera . Just had a quick look around, and have seen that JVC do one which is Mac compatible as well - see here
Looks quite good?
PP
That Sony camera is £499 here: www.parkcameras.com
JVC do quite a few in the Everio range - eBuyer have the lower end ones at a v good price:
www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=79427
AND even cheaper, for less than £300 with the same spec (just different form factor):
www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=83021
The JVC ones seem to have good reviews, but not so good in low light. There are also the larger HD ones from JVC in the range that you have already found. And there is a 3CCD one from JVC for around £700.
Plus Sony has a few - see announcement here:
http://products.sony.co.uk/dcr-sr90e.asp
As you probably gathered - I'm looking into an HD based camera at present myself.
Cheers
Lee
>> Edited by leebuchanan on Wednesday 11th January 16:15
JVC do quite a few in the Everio range - eBuyer have the lower end ones at a v good price:
www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=79427
AND even cheaper, for less than £300 with the same spec (just different form factor):
www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=83021
The JVC ones seem to have good reviews, but not so good in low light. There are also the larger HD ones from JVC in the range that you have already found. And there is a 3CCD one from JVC for around £700.
Plus Sony has a few - see announcement here:
http://products.sony.co.uk/dcr-sr90e.asp
As you probably gathered - I'm looking into an HD based camera at present myself.
Cheers
Lee
>> Edited by leebuchanan on Wednesday 11th January 16:15
Cheers Lee 
Looking at the the new Sony Hard Drive version, it doesn't look as if it's gonna be released for a good few months and even then, at around £850 it's a little too rich for my blood - especially as I'll only be using it occasionally.
Still like the idea of a HD over the Mini DV - just seems a bit more practical and easy to use. Can see me perhaps going for the JVC Everio GZ-MG20EK at around £350
Any idea what the video/sound quality would be like compared to the Sony models listed above?
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Wednesday 11th January 17:33
Looking at the the new Sony Hard Drive version, it doesn't look as if it's gonna be released for a good few months and even then, at around £850 it's a little too rich for my blood - especially as I'll only be using it occasionally.
Still like the idea of a HD over the Mini DV - just seems a bit more practical and easy to use. Can see me perhaps going for the JVC Everio GZ-MG20EK at around £350
Any idea what the video/sound quality would be like compared to the Sony models listed above?
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Wednesday 11th January 17:33
No problem. Decent summary of the JVC range here:
www.jvc.co.uk/site/g_series
GZMG20 has great zoom. Further up the range you get better resolution. Megapixels cost money.
They seem to have decent reviews - but I'd be interested in your views if you do get it.
Cheers
Lee
www.jvc.co.uk/site/g_series
GZMG20 has great zoom. Further up the range you get better resolution. Megapixels cost money.
They seem to have decent reviews - but I'd be interested in your views if you do get it.
Cheers
Lee
I am in the same "looking" boat. I am also thinking the JVE HD MG series but like the MC series 3 CCD model too. The only downer is that none of them have an AV in socket which is needed if you want to plug in a bullet (mini) camera lens. (for fitting in other places, like the bumper of the handlebar of mouantain bike)
I would love to be corrected on this however.
Does anyone know what the difference there is between say a 3 megapixel single ccd picture and a 3 CCD picture. Is there really much in it for normal shooting and general fun?
Thx
Greg
I would love to be corrected on this however.
Does anyone know what the difference there is between say a 3 megapixel single ccd picture and a 3 CCD picture. Is there really much in it for normal shooting and general fun?
Thx
Greg
FYI - megapixels don't mean a whole lot in the Video world. You may want to strip them out of your list of requirements. What does matter are lines of resolution.
Some good information here:
www.camcorderinfo.com
Arguably, 3 CCD (or even 3 CMOS) cameras are better because they have a seperate chip for each main video colour (RGB). However, unless you are Spielberg, you will probably not notice that much. Try to get the largest CCD (or CMOS) that your budget will allow (remember 1/3 is bigger than 1/6, etc, etc).
I don't know much about the hard drive based cameras, but I can tell you (from unfortunate experience with a family member's Sony) if you plan to edit, DON'T BUY A DVD BASED CAMCORDER. It is an exercise in futility...
ErnestM
ALERT - (edited to add the following lifted from Camcorderinfo.com):
"Compression, media, and editing ability have notoriously caused problem in the recently-arrived hard disk camcorder genre. I have a feeling similar problems have always reared their grizzly mugs following recent ground-breaking technologies. The DCR-SR100 does makes steps towards fixing problems of compatibility in formatting video files. Sony creates files with an .MPG extension rather than JVC’s obtuse .MOD files, but complications still exist in the audio sphere. Some audio/video playback programs may lose the audio portion of a clip. Hopefully, these problems will be corrected as Microsoft, RealMedia, and other companies update their players with codecs that support the video shot by the SDR-S100."
My comments: MPEG2 compression is standard DVD compression. Editing will be a PITA. Until they sort the compression issues vis-a-vis editing (either NLE or otherwise), the same caveate would seem to apply as far as editing Hard Drive based video.
So, what do you intend to do with the footage? Watch it raw? You're all set. Edit and add music/funny comments/transitions/etc - I would stick with MiniDV.
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Wednesday 11th January 20:04
Some good information here:
www.camcorderinfo.com
Arguably, 3 CCD (or even 3 CMOS) cameras are better because they have a seperate chip for each main video colour (RGB). However, unless you are Spielberg, you will probably not notice that much. Try to get the largest CCD (or CMOS) that your budget will allow (remember 1/3 is bigger than 1/6, etc, etc).
I don't know much about the hard drive based cameras, but I can tell you (from unfortunate experience with a family member's Sony) if you plan to edit, DON'T BUY A DVD BASED CAMCORDER. It is an exercise in futility...
ErnestM
ALERT - (edited to add the following lifted from Camcorderinfo.com):
"Compression, media, and editing ability have notoriously caused problem in the recently-arrived hard disk camcorder genre. I have a feeling similar problems have always reared their grizzly mugs following recent ground-breaking technologies. The DCR-SR100 does makes steps towards fixing problems of compatibility in formatting video files. Sony creates files with an .MPG extension rather than JVC’s obtuse .MOD files, but complications still exist in the audio sphere. Some audio/video playback programs may lose the audio portion of a clip. Hopefully, these problems will be corrected as Microsoft, RealMedia, and other companies update their players with codecs that support the video shot by the SDR-S100."
My comments: MPEG2 compression is standard DVD compression. Editing will be a PITA. Until they sort the compression issues vis-a-vis editing (either NLE or otherwise), the same caveate would seem to apply as far as editing Hard Drive based video.
So, what do you intend to do with the footage? Watch it raw? You're all set. Edit and add music/funny comments/transitions/etc - I would stick with MiniDV.
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Wednesday 11th January 20:04
Thanks again Ernest and Lee . More things to think about there
Went to the link to find a little more about the JVC Hard Drive Camcorders and got the following extract:
'The GZ-MG70 encodes its video clips into the MPEG2 format. At its highest quality setting (Ultra Fine), the data rate is 8.5 Mbps. The other data rates include: Fine (5.5 Mbps), Normal (4.2 Mbps), and Economy (1.5 Mbps). Even at its highest data rate, the MG70’s MPEG2 cannot hope to match MiniDV quality, which has a rate of 25 Mbps.
While 7 hours of recording time is a remarkable accomplishment, and will catch the attention of a perusing customer, give a moment to think about what you’re losing in order to gain 7 hours. The compression rate, as explained in the section above, is much higher than MiniDV, which means lower image quality.
Hard disk recording, JVC claims, is the way of the future. Given its video performance, we can surely say it’s not the way of the present.
So not as keen as I originally was on the Hard Drive versions!
Mmmm, choices, choices
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Thursday 12th January 10:02
. More things to think about there Went to the link to find a little more about the JVC Hard Drive Camcorders and got the following extract:
'The GZ-MG70 encodes its video clips into the MPEG2 format. At its highest quality setting (Ultra Fine), the data rate is 8.5 Mbps. The other data rates include: Fine (5.5 Mbps), Normal (4.2 Mbps), and Economy (1.5 Mbps). Even at its highest data rate, the MG70’s MPEG2 cannot hope to match MiniDV quality, which has a rate of 25 Mbps.
While 7 hours of recording time is a remarkable accomplishment, and will catch the attention of a perusing customer, give a moment to think about what you’re losing in order to gain 7 hours. The compression rate, as explained in the section above, is much higher than MiniDV, which means lower image quality.
Hard disk recording, JVC claims, is the way of the future. Given its video performance, we can surely say it’s not the way of the present.
So not as keen as I originally was on the Hard Drive versions!
Mmmm, choices, choices
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Thursday 12th January 10:02
Something to think about as far as future proofing...
I've invested in Sony's High Def (HDV) kit. I have both the HDRFX1 and the smaller HDRHC1. They both shoot High Def video, however, they have a playback mode that will downconvert the high def stream to regular DV for importation into your Non Linear Editor giving you a standard DV AVI for editing. That way when all of this Blu-Ray/HD DVD mess settles, I will already have a bunch of hi def tapes waiting to be reimported for editing onto a hi def DVD.
While the HDRFX1 is by no means track day compatible ( [dr_evil_mode] It's friggin huge [/dr_evil_mode] ), the smaller HDRHC1 is nice and light, great battery life and some very nice manual features (exposure, focus, white balance, etc, etc). The HD1 would mount very easily on some of the gear listed on the first post in this thread.
Best of all, they use standard miniDV tapes.
Just wanted to throw more choices into the mix.
ErnestM
I've invested in Sony's High Def (HDV) kit. I have both the HDRFX1 and the smaller HDRHC1. They both shoot High Def video, however, they have a playback mode that will downconvert the high def stream to regular DV for importation into your Non Linear Editor giving you a standard DV AVI for editing. That way when all of this Blu-Ray/HD DVD mess settles, I will already have a bunch of hi def tapes waiting to be reimported for editing onto a hi def DVD.
While the HDRFX1 is by no means track day compatible ( [dr_evil_mode] It's friggin huge [/dr_evil_mode] ), the smaller HDRHC1 is nice and light, great battery life and some very nice manual features (exposure, focus, white balance, etc, etc). The HD1 would mount very easily on some of the gear listed on the first post in this thread.
Best of all, they use standard miniDV tapes.
Just wanted to throw more choices into the mix.
ErnestM
Tis never straightforward is it
Well I can say, I'm well and truly lost - haven't got a clue what to go for now
Quite a few of the cameras we've listed have got less than favourable reviews on www.camcorderinfo.com. I know to stay away from from DVD versions. Still hankering towards the hard-drive versions as I would be using it with the computer virtually all the time anyway (even though that paragraph I found is niggling away at me) but the MiniDV are still in with a shout.
BTW HiDef kit too far out of my allocated budget, but looks like a good piece of kit.
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Thursday 12th January 11:46
Right, one more option before I bite the bullet and choose one!
Here is the Canon MVX330i MiniDV Camcorder
spec here
At around £365 it looks like a good one - Image stabilizer included which sounds as if it could be good for trackdays?
What do you think?
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Thursday 12th January 16:20
Here is the Canon MVX330i MiniDV Camcorder
spec here
At around £365 it looks like a good one - Image stabilizer included which sounds as if it could be good for trackdays?
What do you think?
PP
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Thursday 12th January 16:20
Looks good for a camera without a lot of manual control. Could be the right choice for track days. I am a little concerned about the size of the CCD - it would be better to have a 1/3", but if you are filming mostly high energy motion, it should do.
I had to look it up on the UK site as (I believe) it is called something else in the US...
ErnestM
I had to look it up on the UK site as (I believe) it is called something else in the US...
ErnestM
ErnestM said:
I had to look it up on the UK site as (I believe) it is called something else in the US...
Yep I noticed that, something like the Elura85? Gets quite a good review from what I've seen.
Right, I've narrowed it down to either the Canon MVX330i (MiniDV) or the JVC Everio GZ-MG20EK (Hard Drive).
...just one more thing (honest!)...
Out of interest, how easy is it to get the MiniDV footage onto a computer. Found this quote on the Apple site relating to the Canon model above
'JPEGs and Motion JPEGs are stored direct onto the SD or MMC memory card, for easy upload to PC via USB.'
This sounds to me as if you can only transfer onto the computer from the memory card rather than the MiniDV - or am I just tired and reading it wrong
Anyway guys, thanks a lot for the help so far - it's been an education
PP
Reading wrong... easy (but you do need either Non Linear Editing software program or a capture program such as Windows Movie Maker or whatever that one that Apple has is called)...
1. Hook camera up to computer via firewire (IEEE1394)
2. Power on camera (In "VCR - PLAYBACK" mode with the tape still in)
3. Fire up your capture program or NLE
4. Press "record" or "capture" in your software
5. Make tea
6. Wait an hour (for 1 60 minute miniDV tape)
You will be left with an empty pot of tea and one huge DV file (encapsulated in AVI on a Windows System)
ErnestM
1. Hook camera up to computer via firewire (IEEE1394)
2. Power on camera (In "VCR - PLAYBACK" mode with the tape still in)
3. Fire up your capture program or NLE
4. Press "record" or "capture" in your software
5. Make tea
6. Wait an hour (for 1 60 minute miniDV tape)
You will be left with an empty pot of tea and one huge DV file (encapsulated in AVI on a Windows System)
ErnestM
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