Running like a pig
Discussion
Just a suggestion form my limited experiance, appologies if its already been mentioned.
But....
There is sometimes an issue with the Injector wiring. Because the injectors sit right below the air intake they are open to the wind rain etc. Could it be that you have some faulty wiring somewhere around the injectors thats causing a short/bad conection to one or more of the injectors???
Dont know if thats any use, but i hope you get it sorted.
Ian
But....
There is sometimes an issue with the Injector wiring. Because the injectors sit right below the air intake they are open to the wind rain etc. Could it be that you have some faulty wiring somewhere around the injectors thats causing a short/bad conection to one or more of the injectors???
Dont know if thats any use, but i hope you get it sorted.
Ian
Well Tims just left and we are no wiser really
he's gonna change the plugs, change the dissy cap over to my spare, clean the rotor arm, substitute the coil this weekend with my spare, and just look at the timing marks to see what its set at. If we get the gunsens tester figured out, it would be worth looking at what code it spits out to see if that points somewhere we havent yet looked... At tickover, the engine note dropped when the top AFM was disconnected but disconnecting the bottom AFM had no effect on the running. I cant see any loose or corroded wires to sensors nor injectors
The engine ticked over fine, on acceleration, very gentle, everything was OK up to 2000-2500 revs and then the engine just dies, like an electrical fault or a sudden loss of fuel to the engine...
more ideas people... ?
keep the spirit up Tim
oh and thanks for the veggies 
K
he's gonna change the plugs, change the dissy cap over to my spare, clean the rotor arm, substitute the coil this weekend with my spare, and just look at the timing marks to see what its set at. If we get the gunsens tester figured out, it would be worth looking at what code it spits out to see if that points somewhere we havent yet looked... At tickover, the engine note dropped when the top AFM was disconnected but disconnecting the bottom AFM had no effect on the running. I cant see any loose or corroded wires to sensors nor injectors
The engine ticked over fine, on acceleration, very gentle, everything was OK up to 2000-2500 revs and then the engine just dies, like an electrical fault or a sudden loss of fuel to the engine...
more ideas people... ?
keep the spirit up Tim
oh and thanks for the veggies K
As Kev says I drove up to his place last night.
On setting off from home all was well.I took the long route to Kev's ~ to make sure the engine was good and warm by the time I got there.
The car flew along the A69 5500 revs , lovely.
By the time I got to the Military road I felt what was like the rev limiting ceiling and once I got to Kev's it was running like a 3 legged pig! I've never known it so bad. I left it running (as I knew that turning the engine off seems to reset the engine) whilst we had a quick chat and admired his new "other motor" .
We drove/lurched up the road so Kev could experience the problem for himself, as yes there is a problem. Whilst Kev checked for loose wires/ hoses he confirmed that the engine was hot (Oh yer bugger, that's hot!).
With the bonnet up we could tweek the throttle ~ no limit to the revs, but on driving it was terrible.
When I left ( after the engine had been turned off for a bit) the car was fine. Back on the A69, 5500 revs, flew along like a dream.
Kev has given me a list of jobs which I shall endeavour to get done before the weekend.
Cheers
Tim
On setting off from home all was well.I took the long route to Kev's ~ to make sure the engine was good and warm by the time I got there.
The car flew along the A69 5500 revs , lovely.
By the time I got to the Military road I felt what was like the rev limiting ceiling and once I got to Kev's it was running like a 3 legged pig! I've never known it so bad. I left it running (as I knew that turning the engine off seems to reset the engine) whilst we had a quick chat and admired his new "other motor" .
We drove/lurched up the road so Kev could experience the problem for himself, as yes there is a problem. Whilst Kev checked for loose wires/ hoses he confirmed that the engine was hot (Oh yer bugger, that's hot!).
With the bonnet up we could tweek the throttle ~ no limit to the revs, but on driving it was terrible.
When I left ( after the engine had been turned off for a bit) the car was fine. Back on the A69, 5500 revs, flew along like a dream.
Kev has given me a list of jobs which I shall endeavour to get done before the weekend.
Cheers
Tim
Edited by Elfit on Tuesday 2nd September 08:32
Edited by Elfit on Tuesday 2nd September 08:35
yes it sounded great as you took off along Lippers Edge and down to the A69 again...
so when there is no load on the engine it runs fine and when it has been switched off and back on again it runs fine for a while... got to be ECU related ?
K
ps: it was the manifold that was hot - bloody hot !
so when there is no load on the engine it runs fine and when it has been switched off and back on again it runs fine for a while... got to be ECU related ?
K
ps: it was the manifold that was hot - bloody hot !
ketvrin said:
so when there is no load on the engine it runs fine and when it has been switched off and back on again it runs fine for a while... got to be ECU related ?
I think this may be a bum steer, but when my Rover (2.0 TD) was doing something similar it was a blocked air filter restricting airflow. The filter looked clean from above and on removal, but when running it sucked a large amount of leaves onto the underside from the downstream air channelling pipework and blocked the filter. I think the petrol engine is less susceptible to such an issue, but could be worth making sure there are no obstructions from the filter through the AFM and into the plenum.This problem was only evident under load and was particularly annoying on hills when revs would die away. Took me ages to find the simple fault though!
Mark
Thanks folks
Tony ( Merky 300) ~ that was my father in law's first thought. In fact we thought we had solved the problem. I stopped the car each time to take off filler cap. Problem sorted, or so we thought, until one time I kept the engine running when I removed petrol cap to neutralise "vacuum" and problem remained when driving off.
It would have been a nice easy and cheap fix.
I'm going to check all contacts tonight.
I'll look at ecu contacts too.
Yes it may have been wet
I'll check the airfilter.
How do I check if fuel return pipe is blocked?
If it's the hose I think it is it looks rather old and may be cracked ( I think I may have pointed to it last night Kev ).
It's not leaking fuel but could it be letting air in? If so what would happen?
Cheers
Tim
Tony ( Merky 300) ~ that was my father in law's first thought. In fact we thought we had solved the problem. I stopped the car each time to take off filler cap. Problem sorted, or so we thought, until one time I kept the engine running when I removed petrol cap to neutralise "vacuum" and problem remained when driving off.
It would have been a nice easy and cheap fix.
I'm going to check all contacts tonight.
I'll look at ecu contacts too.
Yes it may have been wet
I'll check the airfilter.
How do I check if fuel return pipe is blocked?
If it's the hose I think it is it looks rather old and may be cracked ( I think I may have pointed to it last night Kev ).
It's not leaking fuel but could it be letting air in? If so what would happen?
Cheers
Tim
I would have thought that the fuel return line would not be under pressure but be in vacumn... I suppose you could check for blockages by opening the filler cap, disconnecting the fuel return pipe from the regulator and blowing down the pipe (or pouring petrol down it ?)
Your air filter did look oldish...
and you did drive in some poor weather on sunday...
getting closer... its going to go like stink when you've done all this eh ?
K
Your air filter did look oldish...
and you did drive in some poor weather on sunday...
getting closer... its going to go like stink when you've done all this eh ?
K
Ok,
Have looked all over for bad connections but found none.( although in my case it's like looking for a needle in a haystack when you've never seen a needle before!)
ECU shows no obvious sign of having had a dunking.All connections look ok.
Air filter old and sad with some foam decaying at bottom.
Airway from AFM's to plenum showing signs of wear and a tiny hole.
Lower AFM has a light covering of black oily deposit
Rotor arm and dissy cap looking a bit old and sad. Some corrosion to both.
Swapped with those lent by Kev.
Not sure about fuel return pipe ~ will try to post piccy in morning.
Hole in rear exhaust box is bigger ( I thought it sounded a bit louder and with a different note)
Haven't started engine up yet.
That's enough for tonight... will report in tomorrow.
Night all
Tim
Have looked all over for bad connections but found none.( although in my case it's like looking for a needle in a haystack when you've never seen a needle before!)
ECU shows no obvious sign of having had a dunking.All connections look ok.
Air filter old and sad with some foam decaying at bottom.
Airway from AFM's to plenum showing signs of wear and a tiny hole.
Lower AFM has a light covering of black oily deposit
Rotor arm and dissy cap looking a bit old and sad. Some corrosion to both.
Swapped with those lent by Kev.
Not sure about fuel return pipe ~ will try to post piccy in morning.
Hole in rear exhaust box is bigger ( I thought it sounded a bit louder and with a different note)
Haven't started engine up yet.
That's enough for tonight... will report in tomorrow.
Night all
Tim
Problem still there. Improves if I don't force it. As soon as ceiling is hit I stop engine and restart. This seems to make things better.
I have listened to all suggestions and will work through them.
Pretty sure I will be able to make BNG on Sunday, even if I stop a couple of times on the way!
Cheers
Tim
I have listened to all suggestions and will work through them.
Pretty sure I will be able to make BNG on Sunday, even if I stop a couple of times on the way!
Cheers
Tim
try checking that none of your vacuum pipes have leaks/split's on ends. best done with a quick visual check and then with the end running and moving your fingers over the joints and listening.
Your engine will run rich when cold, but when warm will lean off and if you have a leak it will be too lean. worth a try a it's a simple check.
Your engine will run rich when cold, but when warm will lean off and if you have a leak it will be too lean. worth a try a it's a simple check.
pringli said:
and is that a nervous stutter 
It wwould be if I was working in the pitEdited by pringli on Sunday 31st August 13:17
I am still of the fuel starvation theory as it clears too quick for it to be related to something like a contact that is getting hot and moving, not sure about why an ecu fault would clear that quick. Can you stall the engine without turning the ignition off, that way the ECU shouldnt reset, then if the fault clears wouldn't that rule out the ECU??
Edited by clarenceboddiger on Friday 5th September 11:13
Edited by clarenceboddiger on Friday 5th September 11:19
Harry1972M said:
Tim,
I have spare older TP's which I know are good so will bring them on Sunday to try out which will be an easier and quicker check than changing the wiring.
Graham
My thoughts are that the older TP's have silver contacts and the newer ones are gold....it is a while since I changed one (I used to do the wiring mod 2-3 time every month) and when buying the TP from Ford they offered/advised to buy the plug with the TP....Additional crap.....there was a point where the TP's were MADE INCORRECTLY and the contact arm was reversed in production, these swiped through the board and failed very quickly give erratic readings.I have spare older TP's which I know are good so will bring them on Sunday to try out which will be an easier and quicker check than changing the wiring.
Graham
Edited by Adrian@ on Friday 5th September 13:32
I very much doubt if this will help you but it may be of interest to someone. I had a whole load of similar problems before S club. Turned out I was 'chasing' several problems but two of them may be relevant to someone who has a misfire problem of this sort which appears fuel related.
Mine is an S1 and I think the first problem only relates to the S1 and its Jetronic system. For some unknown reason the cold start relay was cutting in sometimes when the engine was hot! It appeared to relate more to under bonnet temperature than engine coolant temperature so it didnt do it when the bonnet was open! The effect was to over richen the engine dramatically and it was really difficult to keep it running when that happened. Allow it to stop and cool and it was OK and on some cooler evenings it didnt happen at all. I took the relay (on the right hand side of the plenum chamber) out of circuit and only plug it in when cold starting. I'm going to try another relay when I can get hold of one or failing that I am going to put it on a switch.
The second problem could be relevant to you. I also thought I had a fuel supply problem, I also found muck in the fuel pump inlet and cleaned it. After that I appeared to have clear flow. I also checked the pressure at the injectors (it is possible to do a pressure check at the input to the cold start injector on an S1) and it appeared fine. It was only by accident that we noticed the pressure dropped away with time. It appears that the fuel pump may have been damaged by muck and, while it appeared to pump volume OK, it wouldnt hold pressure when warm. I understand these injections systems are unusually sensitive to pressure. A new fuel pump was fitted ( I put a thread on about the source I used) and the problem was cured.
Mine is an S1 and I think the first problem only relates to the S1 and its Jetronic system. For some unknown reason the cold start relay was cutting in sometimes when the engine was hot! It appeared to relate more to under bonnet temperature than engine coolant temperature so it didnt do it when the bonnet was open! The effect was to over richen the engine dramatically and it was really difficult to keep it running when that happened. Allow it to stop and cool and it was OK and on some cooler evenings it didnt happen at all. I took the relay (on the right hand side of the plenum chamber) out of circuit and only plug it in when cold starting. I'm going to try another relay when I can get hold of one or failing that I am going to put it on a switch.
The second problem could be relevant to you. I also thought I had a fuel supply problem, I also found muck in the fuel pump inlet and cleaned it. After that I appeared to have clear flow. I also checked the pressure at the injectors (it is possible to do a pressure check at the input to the cold start injector on an S1) and it appeared fine. It was only by accident that we noticed the pressure dropped away with time. It appears that the fuel pump may have been damaged by muck and, while it appeared to pump volume OK, it wouldnt hold pressure when warm. I understand these injections systems are unusually sensitive to pressure. A new fuel pump was fitted ( I put a thread on about the source I used) and the problem was cured.
Mmmmm
Interesting
On my visit to Kev he did wonder about cold start relay.
Knacked fuel pump may also be an issue ~ although a pressure test had been done. From what you are saying it may fail on getting warm and hence escape test.
Yet again, why would it sort itself out so quickly when switching engine off then on again immediatley?
Another question.
If I've done this right there should be a picture of what I think is the fuel return hose.
Is it the fuel return hose?
Is it under pressure ?
Should it be empty when engine is off?
What would happen if it wasn't?
The reason I ask is that I started to take it off but it started leaking fuel. It was getting late and I didn't want to start on with something that may have taken a while so popped it back on again.
I am wondering what would happen if the hose became restricted or completely blocked?
What route does the hose take and where does it end up ?
Cheers
Tim
Edited once I found out the pic wasn't there!
Then it wasn't there
And then it was again!
Sorry Ian!
Interesting
On my visit to Kev he did wonder about cold start relay.
Knacked fuel pump may also be an issue ~ although a pressure test had been done. From what you are saying it may fail on getting warm and hence escape test.
Yet again, why would it sort itself out so quickly when switching engine off then on again immediatley?
Another question.
If I've done this right there should be a picture of what I think is the fuel return hose.
Is it the fuel return hose?
Is it under pressure ?
Should it be empty when engine is off?
What would happen if it wasn't?
The reason I ask is that I started to take it off but it started leaking fuel. It was getting late and I didn't want to start on with something that may have taken a while so popped it back on again.
I am wondering what would happen if the hose became restricted or completely blocked?
What route does the hose take and where does it end up ?
Cheers
Tim
Edited once I found out the pic wasn't there!
Then it wasn't there
And then it was again!
Sorry Ian!
Edited by Elfit on Friday 5th September 14:18
Edited by Elfit on Friday 5th September 14:35
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