Running like a pig
Discussion
I wonder if someone can help me diagnose a problem.
Ths car starts up fine and runs well at first. After running for a while I occasionally find that there is a "limit" to the revs ~ it's like I've hit a ceiling. If I push the clutch in I can rev as high as I like but as soon as I let the clutch out it splutters again. I find that if I stop the engine and start up again the problem goes. The engine only has to be turned off momentarily.
When the problem first arose I thought it was dirty fuel. The car had just had a repair to the fuel tank and there was a fair bit of loose rust in it. I cleaned the fuel line to the pump many times and eventually fitted an inline filter ~ however it didn't sort it.
I have also changed the throttle pot.
One thing that did make a big difference was to start her up from cold and leave idling 'till the fan cut in. This tip was from TVRGit who says it resets various electrical gizmos.
The problem has been with me for a while.
August is a bit hectic here so the car hadn't been driven for about a month. The battery was flat so I disconnected it and recharged. Before driving again I deployed TVRgit's tip.
So on my first outing yesterday she started well. Engine was nearly up to normal temp when I hit the main road, revs up to 5500 and she roared like a dream. 5 miles later she was spluttering like a pig ~ worse than it had been for ages.
So, what can I check and how do I do it?
This problem is begining to get me down so any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Tim
Ths car starts up fine and runs well at first. After running for a while I occasionally find that there is a "limit" to the revs ~ it's like I've hit a ceiling. If I push the clutch in I can rev as high as I like but as soon as I let the clutch out it splutters again. I find that if I stop the engine and start up again the problem goes. The engine only has to be turned off momentarily.
When the problem first arose I thought it was dirty fuel. The car had just had a repair to the fuel tank and there was a fair bit of loose rust in it. I cleaned the fuel line to the pump many times and eventually fitted an inline filter ~ however it didn't sort it.
I have also changed the throttle pot.
One thing that did make a big difference was to start her up from cold and leave idling 'till the fan cut in. This tip was from TVRGit who says it resets various electrical gizmos.
The problem has been with me for a while.
August is a bit hectic here so the car hadn't been driven for about a month. The battery was flat so I disconnected it and recharged. Before driving again I deployed TVRgit's tip.
So on my first outing yesterday she started well. Engine was nearly up to normal temp when I hit the main road, revs up to 5500 and she roared like a dream. 5 miles later she was spluttering like a pig ~ worse than it had been for ages.
So, what can I check and how do I do it?
This problem is begining to get me down so any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Tim
I've been outside for a while ~ not near the computer. I've just come in to find that you have all been busy! Many thanks for your help.
If I give you a blow by blow account of events it may be of use.
The car had a leaking fuel tank and rotten outriggers ~ This was too much of a job for me so I took it to the local garage.
They did a partial body lift to repair the outriggers ( using information which I provided them that I gleaned from this site)
They sent the tank to a specialist who patched the hole and coated the outside of the tank.
When I got the car back I started to get the problems as previously described.
I took the car back to the garage and asked them to investigate.
They drained the tank, removed the fuel pump, fitted new fuel filter, fitted new plug leads and measured fuel pressure.
They said that the pressure was ok.
This was just over a year ago.
The problem has persisted to varying degrees.
In the I drained the tank and fitted a new strainer ( the old one had a hole in it). In fact I drained the tank several times by taking the bung out of the bottom. I also sloshed a gallon or so of fuel through the tank with the bung out to remove as much s
te as I could. ( There were a lot of small rust particles)
Where the hose connects to the pump there is a very small thimble like filter ~ this I have carefully taken out and cleaned.
I still had problems.
I then bought an inline bullet filter which I fitted between the tank and the pump thinking it would be the end of my woes ~ it wasn't.
I've tried the trick of starting from cold and idling til the fan goes off. It seems to improve things but may be my imagination.
Earlier on this year I only got the problem after running for an hour or so. If I immediately turned the engine off and started straight away it would go away for a while. If I tried to carry on without doing this it seemed to get worse.
I bought a new throttle pot ~ to no avail
Originally I was convinced that it was a fuel problem as that, I thought, was the only thing that had been changed. But, as time goes by I'm getting more confused.
Did the body lift stretch/kink/strain a wire/hose/connector?
Is there still some muck in the fuel system on teh engine side of the
filter?
Unfortunatly I'm not much of a mechanic and I don't understand how teh system works, let alone work out where it has gone wrong.
Thanks for your help ~ especially Pringli who spent the best part of an hour on the phone today telling me which leads/hoses etc were which.
Cheers
Tim
If I give you a blow by blow account of events it may be of use.
The car had a leaking fuel tank and rotten outriggers ~ This was too much of a job for me so I took it to the local garage.
They did a partial body lift to repair the outriggers ( using information which I provided them that I gleaned from this site)
They sent the tank to a specialist who patched the hole and coated the outside of the tank.
When I got the car back I started to get the problems as previously described.
I took the car back to the garage and asked them to investigate.
They drained the tank, removed the fuel pump, fitted new fuel filter, fitted new plug leads and measured fuel pressure.
They said that the pressure was ok.
This was just over a year ago.
The problem has persisted to varying degrees.
In the I drained the tank and fitted a new strainer ( the old one had a hole in it). In fact I drained the tank several times by taking the bung out of the bottom. I also sloshed a gallon or so of fuel through the tank with the bung out to remove as much s
te as I could. ( There were a lot of small rust particles)Where the hose connects to the pump there is a very small thimble like filter ~ this I have carefully taken out and cleaned.
I still had problems.
I then bought an inline bullet filter which I fitted between the tank and the pump thinking it would be the end of my woes ~ it wasn't.
I've tried the trick of starting from cold and idling til the fan goes off. It seems to improve things but may be my imagination.
Earlier on this year I only got the problem after running for an hour or so. If I immediately turned the engine off and started straight away it would go away for a while. If I tried to carry on without doing this it seemed to get worse.
I bought a new throttle pot ~ to no avail
Originally I was convinced that it was a fuel problem as that, I thought, was the only thing that had been changed. But, as time goes by I'm getting more confused.
Did the body lift stretch/kink/strain a wire/hose/connector?
Is there still some muck in the fuel system on teh engine side of the
filter?
Unfortunatly I'm not much of a mechanic and I don't understand how teh system works, let alone work out where it has gone wrong.
Thanks for your help ~ especially Pringli who spent the best part of an hour on the phone today telling me which leads/hoses etc were which.
Cheers
Tim
Thanks all for your help and advice.
I do think now that the problem is probably electrical rather than fuel.Especially seeing as the problem has got much worse since disconnecting the battery last week.
Kev ~ I'll take any help I can get! Many thanks for your offer. You have a much greater understanding of these things than I have. I'll contact you off board with a view to meeting up soon.
I'll report back here with our findings.
Cheers
Tim
I do think now that the problem is probably electrical rather than fuel.Especially seeing as the problem has got much worse since disconnecting the battery last week.
Kev ~ I'll take any help I can get! Many thanks for your offer. You have a much greater understanding of these things than I have. I'll contact you off board with a view to meeting up soon.
I'll report back here with our findings.
Cheers
Tim
As Kev says I drove up to his place last night.
On setting off from home all was well.I took the long route to Kev's ~ to make sure the engine was good and warm by the time I got there.
The car flew along the A69 5500 revs , lovely.
By the time I got to the Military road I felt what was like the rev limiting ceiling and once I got to Kev's it was running like a 3 legged pig! I've never known it so bad. I left it running (as I knew that turning the engine off seems to reset the engine) whilst we had a quick chat and admired his new "other motor" .
We drove/lurched up the road so Kev could experience the problem for himself, as yes there is a problem. Whilst Kev checked for loose wires/ hoses he confirmed that the engine was hot (Oh yer bugger, that's hot!).
With the bonnet up we could tweek the throttle ~ no limit to the revs, but on driving it was terrible.
When I left ( after the engine had been turned off for a bit) the car was fine. Back on the A69, 5500 revs, flew along like a dream.
Kev has given me a list of jobs which I shall endeavour to get done before the weekend.
Cheers
Tim
On setting off from home all was well.I took the long route to Kev's ~ to make sure the engine was good and warm by the time I got there.
The car flew along the A69 5500 revs , lovely.
By the time I got to the Military road I felt what was like the rev limiting ceiling and once I got to Kev's it was running like a 3 legged pig! I've never known it so bad. I left it running (as I knew that turning the engine off seems to reset the engine) whilst we had a quick chat and admired his new "other motor" .
We drove/lurched up the road so Kev could experience the problem for himself, as yes there is a problem. Whilst Kev checked for loose wires/ hoses he confirmed that the engine was hot (Oh yer bugger, that's hot!).
With the bonnet up we could tweek the throttle ~ no limit to the revs, but on driving it was terrible.
When I left ( after the engine had been turned off for a bit) the car was fine. Back on the A69, 5500 revs, flew along like a dream.
Kev has given me a list of jobs which I shall endeavour to get done before the weekend.
Cheers
Tim
Edited by Elfit on Tuesday 2nd September 08:32
Edited by Elfit on Tuesday 2nd September 08:35
Thanks folks
Tony ( Merky 300) ~ that was my father in law's first thought. In fact we thought we had solved the problem. I stopped the car each time to take off filler cap. Problem sorted, or so we thought, until one time I kept the engine running when I removed petrol cap to neutralise "vacuum" and problem remained when driving off.
It would have been a nice easy and cheap fix.
I'm going to check all contacts tonight.
I'll look at ecu contacts too.
Yes it may have been wet
I'll check the airfilter.
How do I check if fuel return pipe is blocked?
If it's the hose I think it is it looks rather old and may be cracked ( I think I may have pointed to it last night Kev ).
It's not leaking fuel but could it be letting air in? If so what would happen?
Cheers
Tim
Tony ( Merky 300) ~ that was my father in law's first thought. In fact we thought we had solved the problem. I stopped the car each time to take off filler cap. Problem sorted, or so we thought, until one time I kept the engine running when I removed petrol cap to neutralise "vacuum" and problem remained when driving off.
It would have been a nice easy and cheap fix.
I'm going to check all contacts tonight.
I'll look at ecu contacts too.
Yes it may have been wet
I'll check the airfilter.
How do I check if fuel return pipe is blocked?
If it's the hose I think it is it looks rather old and may be cracked ( I think I may have pointed to it last night Kev ).
It's not leaking fuel but could it be letting air in? If so what would happen?
Cheers
Tim
Ok,
Have looked all over for bad connections but found none.( although in my case it's like looking for a needle in a haystack when you've never seen a needle before!)
ECU shows no obvious sign of having had a dunking.All connections look ok.
Air filter old and sad with some foam decaying at bottom.
Airway from AFM's to plenum showing signs of wear and a tiny hole.
Lower AFM has a light covering of black oily deposit
Rotor arm and dissy cap looking a bit old and sad. Some corrosion to both.
Swapped with those lent by Kev.
Not sure about fuel return pipe ~ will try to post piccy in morning.
Hole in rear exhaust box is bigger ( I thought it sounded a bit louder and with a different note)
Haven't started engine up yet.
That's enough for tonight... will report in tomorrow.
Night all
Tim
Have looked all over for bad connections but found none.( although in my case it's like looking for a needle in a haystack when you've never seen a needle before!)
ECU shows no obvious sign of having had a dunking.All connections look ok.
Air filter old and sad with some foam decaying at bottom.
Airway from AFM's to plenum showing signs of wear and a tiny hole.
Lower AFM has a light covering of black oily deposit
Rotor arm and dissy cap looking a bit old and sad. Some corrosion to both.
Swapped with those lent by Kev.
Not sure about fuel return pipe ~ will try to post piccy in morning.
Hole in rear exhaust box is bigger ( I thought it sounded a bit louder and with a different note)
Haven't started engine up yet.
That's enough for tonight... will report in tomorrow.
Night all
Tim
Problem still there. Improves if I don't force it. As soon as ceiling is hit I stop engine and restart. This seems to make things better.
I have listened to all suggestions and will work through them.
Pretty sure I will be able to make BNG on Sunday, even if I stop a couple of times on the way!
Cheers
Tim
I have listened to all suggestions and will work through them.
Pretty sure I will be able to make BNG on Sunday, even if I stop a couple of times on the way!
Cheers
Tim
Mmmmm
Interesting
On my visit to Kev he did wonder about cold start relay.
Knacked fuel pump may also be an issue ~ although a pressure test had been done. From what you are saying it may fail on getting warm and hence escape test.
Yet again, why would it sort itself out so quickly when switching engine off then on again immediatley?
Another question.
If I've done this right there should be a picture of what I think is the fuel return hose.
Is it the fuel return hose?
Is it under pressure ?
Should it be empty when engine is off?
What would happen if it wasn't?
The reason I ask is that I started to take it off but it started leaking fuel. It was getting late and I didn't want to start on with something that may have taken a while so popped it back on again.
I am wondering what would happen if the hose became restricted or completely blocked?
What route does the hose take and where does it end up ?
Cheers
Tim
Edited once I found out the pic wasn't there!
Then it wasn't there
And then it was again!
Sorry Ian!
Interesting
On my visit to Kev he did wonder about cold start relay.
Knacked fuel pump may also be an issue ~ although a pressure test had been done. From what you are saying it may fail on getting warm and hence escape test.
Yet again, why would it sort itself out so quickly when switching engine off then on again immediatley?
Another question.
If I've done this right there should be a picture of what I think is the fuel return hose.
Is it the fuel return hose?
Is it under pressure ?
Should it be empty when engine is off?
What would happen if it wasn't?
The reason I ask is that I started to take it off but it started leaking fuel. It was getting late and I didn't want to start on with something that may have taken a while so popped it back on again.
I am wondering what would happen if the hose became restricted or completely blocked?
What route does the hose take and where does it end up ?
Cheers
Tim
Edited once I found out the pic wasn't there!
Then it wasn't there
And then it was again!
Sorry Ian!
Edited by Elfit on Friday 5th September 14:18
Edited by Elfit on Friday 5th September 14:35
This must be the problem.
Last night I drained the tank and emptied the in line filter. It's clogged with bits of rust from the tank.
Now I need to decide what to do.....
My head tells me that the only long term solution is a new tank but that's gonna cost.
Are there any viable alternatives? Can the tank be internally lined successfully?
Cheers
Tim
I am going to repair the tank with the POR-15 tank repair kit.
Frosts didn't have any in stock but Holden's did ( and it was cheaper)
http://tinyurl.com/4r9hlj
I rang them first; a helpful guy gave me some advice.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Tim
Frosts didn't have any in stock but Holden's did ( and it was cheaper)
http://tinyurl.com/4r9hlj
I rang them first; a helpful guy gave me some advice.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Tim
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