Tappet adjustment (again!)

[orange_dodo]

I know there are quite a few threads about this but I can't for the life of me find the thread with the guide that tells you which engine numbers have hydraulic tappets and which don't. I wasn't clever enough to book mark it when I did read it.

Also could someone let me know where the engine number is as I can't find it!

The engine has been making tappety noises (well I think its a tappety noise) so I assume its not hydraulic but thought I should check before adjusting anything.

[Last S4]

I think when it all comes down to it the only way to be sure is to try adjusting them.
I think TVRGIT knew quite a bit about this one - might be worth a pm.
My car should have hydraulic and was sounding tappety, thankfully they were adjustable.

[tvrgit]

There is no way to tell, just looking at the valve gear, exactly what you have. I have found another S4C with ordinary tappets (even although the book says they were all hydraulic) while my older S3C is definitely hydraulic.

One indicator may be the letter stamped on the cylinder head. Just behind No 4 spark plug (the front one on the left) and just in front of No 3 (the back one on the right) the cylinder head has an embossed "F" or "K". F means flat seat plugs, K means taper seat plugs. I think somebody suggested that the taper seat heads were fitted to cars with hydraulic tappets, F seat heads weren't.

The only way to be REALLY sure is to try to adjust them. If you have adjusted tappets before, you'll be able to adjust ordinary tappets easy - feeler gauge in the gap, adjust till it feels right.

Hydraulic tappets won't feel right - the adjustment compresses the tappet so you never get the right "feel" to the gauge.

I would suggest you try one tappet, pick one that is at the top of its stroke (ie not under any compression). a standard tappet will have clear play in the valve clearance under the rocker, a hydraulic one won't. Also, if you tighten it, an ordinary one will tighten slighty till it takes up that clearance, and then start to open the valve - don't tighten it any more or you'll bend the pushrod or break something! A hydraulic one will keep tightening for a turn and a half or so while it compresses the oil and spring in the tappet at the bottom of the push rod, before anything else moves. Again, it's all in the "feel" as you do it.

In either case, note carefully how far you've turned it so that you can put it back to exactly where it was - resetting hydraulic tappets is possible but a right pain in the botty.

Edited by tvrgit on Tuesday 22 September 16:45

[The Lukas]

I just got a seirra manual and used that. Works perfectly! If I can do it, I'm sure any other monkey can

[phillpot]

The Lukas said:

I just got a seirra manual and used that. Works perfectly! If I can do it, I'm sure any other monkey can

And some really clever monkeys can spell Sierra !



There are some numbers stamped here, on that flat bit below cylinder head bolt and under that black hose ( see pic of scrap block)





Both engines have the F cast on them and have flat spark plug seats and solid cam followers


HTH Mike

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 22 September 18:46

[Road2Ruin]

The rule of thumb seems to be if its a CAT then its hydraulic if not then its manual. Mine certainly were manual and fit that rule. However I wouldn't try and adjust if you are not sure, I dont think the average man in the street can tell the difference. If they are bad though then you haven't much to lose try them and see if it helps. If it doesn't then they are hydrualic and need replacing possibly.

[orange_dodo]

Thanks for all the info. I am pretty sure mine aren't Hydraulic but having never adjusted tappets before I'm not sure i'll be able to distinguish through feel alone. Have my feeler guage though so I'll have a gentle adjust as per the guide from tvrsseries.com and stop if anything feels wrong or requires any force.

BTW which way does the engine turn? The guide mentions using a 19mm spanner on the pulley bolt but I didn't want to turn the engine backwards. So do I 'tighten' or 'loosen' the engine!?

I need to take the other rocker cover off tonight so I'll check to see if I can see the 'F' or 'K'. Be useful to know anyway for when the plugs need changing.

4 years of engineering at uni and they never taught me anything vaguely useful when it comes to playing with petrol engines!

Edited by orange_dodo on Wednesday 23 September 10:47

[tvrgit]

Road2Ruin said:

The rule of thumb seems to be if its a CAT then its hydraulic if not then its manual. Mine certainly were manual and fit that rule. However I wouldn't try and adjust if you are not sure, I dont think the average man in the street can tell the difference. If they are bad though then you haven't much to lose try them and see if it helps. If it doesn't then they are hydrualic and need replacing possibly.

I am aware of 2 S4C cars, both with cats, that are NOT hydraulic. One of them I am absolutely certain of, because I checked it myself. I have no reason to doubt the experience of the other member.

Rules of thumb are all very well, but not when applied to TVRs.

I would agree though that you shouldn't try to adjust them if you're not sure - it's the "feel" that's different, not much else.

[tvrgit]

The engine turns clockwise when viewed from the front.

You can work it out from the timing marks - ie TDC is shown, then other marks showing degrees before TDC - the engine has to turn TOWARDS TDC from the "before" TDC marks.

Another method is to kick it over on the starter and watch which way the fanbelt turns!

[orange_dodo]

tvrgit said:

The engine turns clockwise when viewed from the front.

You can work it out from the timing marks - ie TDC is shown, then other marks showing degrees before TDC - the engine has to turn TOWARDS TDC from the "before" TDC marks.

Another method is to kick it over on the starter and watch which way the fanbelt turns!

Thanks, I did actually think about starting it and seeing but my battery and alternator are currently in my kitchen (I don't think that was a popular move) which makes things difficult. Clockwise I can do though.

I'm taking Friday off work to have tinkering time so there may be a few more questions popping up from me!

[clarenceboddiger]

According to the Autodata Manual for Granada/ Scorpio Only the BRE code engines were Manual Tappets, BRD/E/F/V were Hydraulic, how the hell you find that number n the engine I dont know but if you can it may help.
BRE engines ran from 1986-1993 all the others ran from 1986-1994 Looks like TVR were supplied with whatever Ford had a Glut of?

[heightswitch]

clarenceboddiger said:

According to the Autodata Manual for Granada/ Scorpio Only the BRE code engines were Manual Tappets, BRD/E/F/V were Hydraulic, how the hell you find that number n the engine I dont know but if you can it may help.
BRE engines ran from 1986-1993 all the others ran from 1986-1994 Looks like TVR were supplied with whatever Ford had a Glut of?

Why don't you just loosen the 6 rocker cover bolts, take the rocker cover off and have a look?

from memory the 2.8 have an interference screw thread adjuster which backs itself off because it is always immersed in oil. tappet adjustment should be pretty easy to do every service. i used to do my old 2.3 cortina in approx 1hr. its not a difficult job.

whether Hydraulic or solid I would suggest that the adjustment method is the same to set the clearance to the valve. i would do the clearances with the engine stone cold. Then carefully do the clearances by feel.

You can also run an OHV car with the rockers off and look / listen to the noisy valves.

N.

Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 24th September 17:50

[tvrgit]

heightswitch said:

Why don't you just loosen the 6 rocker cover bolts, take the rocker cover off and have a look?

because they look the same, the hydraulic bit is at the camshaft not the rockers

heightswitch said:

whether Hydraulic or solid I would suggest that the adjustment method is the same to set the clearance to the valve.

no it isn't it's very different, get it wrong and you'll damage the engine

[orange_dodo]

heightswitch said:

Why don't you just loosen the 6 rocker cover bolts, take the rocker cover off and have a look?

Cos there are 8 bolts

Actually most of those 8 were so loose they weren't even finger tight


Well I had a waggle of the rockers and of the ones that weren't pressing against the valve they had no preload. I could push them so they stayed against the valve or stayed off it which I assume means that they aren't hydraulic. As it's an S1.5 circa 1989 it seems most likely they are manual.


ETA I just found a receipt in the history saying "MOT, Adjusted Tappets". Think that proves that they are manual then.

Edited by orange_dodo on Friday 25th September 09:56

[tvrgit]

orange_dodo said:

heightswitch said:

Why don't you just loosen the 6 rocker cover bolts, take the rocker cover off and have a look?

Cos there are 8 bolts

Actually most of those 8 were so loose they weren't even finger tight


Well I had a waggle of the rockers and of the ones that weren't pressing against the valve they had no preload. I could push them so they stayed against the valve or stayed off it which I assume means that they aren't hydraulic. As it's an S1.5 circa 1989 it seems most likely they are manual.


ETA I just found a receipt in the history saying "MOT, Adjusted Tappets". Think that proves that they are manual then.

Edited by orange_dodo on Friday 25th September 09:56

From your description, I am sure you're right

[orange_dodo]

Ok one last question....where are the timing marks!?

Don't worry, mission accomplished, tappets have been adjusted

Edited by orange_dodo on Friday 25th September 17:35

[GreenV8S]

orange_dodo said:

ETA I just found a receipt in the history saying "MOT, Adjusted Tappets". Think that proves that they are manual then.

I think that shows the person who did the service thought it had mechanical tappets - not quite the same thing.

[phillpot]

orange_dodo said:

Ok one last question....where are the timing marks!?

Don't worry, mission accomplished, tappets have been adjusted

Edited by orange_dodo on Friday 25th September 17:35

On the crankshaft pulley (down below the alternator)
little indent on pulley is inline with 0 so engine is at TDC. the numbers lower down would be degrees before TDC and the single 3 above the 0 is after TDC

HTH Mike

[GreenV8S]

phillpot said:

little indent on pulley is inline with 0 so engine is at TDC. the numbers lower down would be degrees before TDC and the single 3 above the 0 is after TDC

A blob of white paint (or even tipex) on the reference mark and the TDC mark makes this much easier to make out when the engine's running.

[orange_dodo]

phillpot said:

On the crankshaft pulley (down below the alternator)
little indent on pulley is inline with 0 so engine is at TDC. the numbers lower down would be degrees before TDC and the single 3 above the 0 is after TDC

HTH Mike

Ahh thats why I couldn't see it. The little timing mark tab is caked in crap on mine. You can't see any indents and you can't see the notch in the crank pulley due to crud either.

I did it by cranking the engine over until I saw No.1 exhaust valve close and inlet begin to open (overlap I think the guide called it). I know enough about engines to know that should only happen once in the cycle so went from there. More than half the valves were pretty loose on the feeler gauge, all sorted now though.

Thanks for the help everyone!