Discussion
Some previous here
Felt guilty hijacking Ians thread. Anyhow. Is the firing order the same across the whole of the V8 range? I have the no 1 plug lead front of engine then the correct order anti clock wise. Spark is better with a new coil and the plugs are wet after a few goes of turning but it just won't fire up. There is petrol in the tank and as the plugs are wet I assume its getting in. Fuel pump primes etc. I havn't been fiddling, it just stopped working. I feel the big 'ammer comming out.
Felt guilty hijacking Ians thread. Anyhow. Is the firing order the same across the whole of the V8 range? I have the no 1 plug lead front of engine then the correct order anti clock wise. Spark is better with a new coil and the plugs are wet after a few goes of turning but it just won't fire up. There is petrol in the tank and as the plugs are wet I assume its getting in. Fuel pump primes etc. I havn't been fiddling, it just stopped working. I feel the big 'ammer comming out.
On my car, lead 1 is off to the left, with the vacuum capsule pointing forward!
With the crank at TDC on No. 1, the rotor arm should be pointing towards the left wing.
Edit: You said ANTI-clockwise? I thought it went clockwise from no. 1...
>> Edited by wedg1e on Sunday 16th November 19:10
With the crank at TDC on No. 1, the rotor arm should be pointing towards the left wing.
Edit: You said ANTI-clockwise? I thought it went clockwise from no. 1...
>> Edited by wedg1e on Sunday 16th November 19:10
AFAIK the firing order is the same for all Rover V8s.
The diagram is on p13 of the 'bible'. Just for a sanity check #1 cylinder is front left-hand side, 2 is opposite on front right-hand side.
The routeing of the ignition leads is not critical to the firing, it just minimises 'cross-talk' between leads which might lead to premature firing. I have had mine running "OK" with 6 & 8 leads reversed - it just didn't idle well.
Are any pots firing at all? I presume you've tested spark for each lead and plugs are correctly gapped (0.030" / 0.80mm - according to Haynes Range Rover manual, I can't find a reference in the 'bible').
Streaky
Edited to say that Ian beat me to it! - S
>> Edited by streaky on Sunday 16th November 19:08
The diagram is on p13 of the 'bible'. Just for a sanity check #1 cylinder is front left-hand side, 2 is opposite on front right-hand side.
The routeing of the ignition leads is not critical to the firing, it just minimises 'cross-talk' between leads which might lead to premature firing. I have had mine running "OK" with 6 & 8 leads reversed - it just didn't idle well.
Are any pots firing at all? I presume you've tested spark for each lead and plugs are correctly gapped (0.030" / 0.80mm - according to Haynes Range Rover manual, I can't find a reference in the 'bible').
Streaky
Edited to say that Ian beat me to it! - S
>> Edited by streaky on Sunday 16th November 19:08
Cheers for the reply's
Piccy taken when it was working a while ago.
The dizzy is correct in its position.
The no 1 lead is the closest to the alternator bar. Used this to determin the layout as I had the leads off when it didn't start for a furtle and crossed 3+5 and 4+6. I havn't checked all the sparks, just 4 but they are there and better with the new coil, and in the right place. All plugs checked for gap and they are good. (Gap is on page 34).
Now very confused. Checked the plan I made and its anti clockwise. Wether its right is another matter.
Piccy taken when it was working a while ago.
The dizzy is correct in its position.
The no 1 lead is the closest to the alternator bar. Used this to determin the layout as I had the leads off when it didn't start for a furtle and crossed 3+5 and 4+6. I havn't checked all the sparks, just 4 but they are there and better with the new coil, and in the right place. All plugs checked for gap and they are good. (Gap is on page 34).
Now very confused. Checked the plan I made and its anti clockwise. Wether its right is another matter.
I suppose it doesn't matter where the distributor is as long as you can identify where the rotor arm is pointing when No. 1 cylinder is at TDC. Once you can identify which 'port' of the dist. cap is no. 1, and you know the sequence, the rest should be easy.
This is correct for my car:
This is correct for my car:
Cheers Ian. Think I have badgered up proper here whilst playing with the cap. Thought I had swapped the leads correctly. Too late now and unable to do anything next week but will try that next weekend. Thats a handy diagram.
edited to add
Getting in a right twaddle now. I put the leads back as per my pic when it was working
Time for a stale tortoise
>> Edited by jmorgan on Sunday 16th November 21:48
edited to add
Getting in a right twaddle now. I put the leads back as per my pic when it was working
Time for a stale tortoise >> Edited by jmorgan on Sunday 16th November 21:48
wedg1e said:That appears to match the Rover diagram for 1987 onwards engines. Not that there is material difference, such that would prevent the engine from firing - Streaky
I suppose it doesn't matter where the distributor is as long as you can identify where the rotor arm is pointing when No. 1 cylinder is at TDC. Once you can identify which 'port' of the dist. cap is no. 1, and you know the sequence, the rest should be easy.
This is correct for my car:
Back from Hols.
Ignoring the old diagram I was using and refering to info supplied from here it now makes sense. Got the order correct and it is clockwise. Old photo's allowed me to sort which lead was which to work the rest out. All sparking, petrol but still no bang but it does try. Noticed that the rotor arm has a little play in it, 5mm or so left to right (not measured it).
Also another fault which was the battery earth lead to the block was intermittant HR didn't help.
Off to halfords now as I have badgered a lead up
Ignoring the old diagram I was using and refering to info supplied from here it now makes sense. Got the order correct and it is clockwise. Old photo's allowed me to sort which lead was which to work the rest out. All sparking, petrol but still no bang but it does try. Noticed that the rotor arm has a little play in it, 5mm or so left to right (not measured it).
Also another fault which was the battery earth lead to the block was intermittant HR didn't help.
Off to halfords now as I have badgered a lead up
jmorgan said:
Back from Hols.
Ignoring the old diagram I was using and refering to info supplied from here it now makes sense. Got the order correct and it is clockwise. Old photo's allowed me to sort which lead was which to work the rest out. All sparking, petrol but still no bang but it does try. Noticed that the rotor arm has a little play in it, 5mm or so left to right (not measured it).
Also another fault which was the battery earth lead to the block was intermittant HR didn't help.
Off to halfords now as I have badgered a lead up
The movement of the rotor arm is down to the advance/ retard mechanism. Normal.
Sounds like the ignition timing is out, even if only by a small amount. However, in case it is the fuelling, try throwing a bit of fuel (few tablespoonsful) into the plenum chamber and then try it. If it fires up but only runs for a couple of seconds, you pretty well know it's not the ignition.
Ian
wedg1e said:
The movement of the rotor arm is down to the advance/ retard mechanism. Normal.
Sounds like the ignition timing is out, even if only by a small amount. However, in case it is the fuelling, try throwing a bit of fuel (few tablespoonsful) into the plenum chamber and then try it. If it fires up but only runs for a couple of seconds, you pretty well know it's not the ignition.
Ian
Cheers Ian. Give it a go tomorrow now. I am at the "going to feckin thump it for no good reason"stage. Plugs are drenched after a few seconds turning over, I dry them off before retrying.
This is driving me nuts as it has always started first time in the past.
Will give the breakdonw peeps a call monday and let them play if all else fails. Don't want to disturb them on the weekend if I am not going anywhere.
streaky said:
Jeff - have you checked that each plug is firing? I know you've probably checked that a thousand times, but ... - Streaky
Yep. All except 1 that I coudn't remove but didn't want to damage it and add to the deep hole I seem to have dug for myself. The spark is a lot better with the new coil. With the old coil I had to turn the garage light off to see it and it was very weak, probably the reason for the first instance of not starting properly.
Just a thought, if you flood the engine, is drying the plugs off enough to sort it? I have been leaving them out after drying and letting the pots air a tad (not all the time mind) whilst cursing into a mug of tea, a 3 bagger Yorkshire at that.
Edited to add
I feel I have done something very daft and can't reason out what it was. Getting the lead order up the spout didn't help.
>> Edited by jmorgan on Saturday 22 November 20:37
stainless_steve said:
Hope you get her sorted soon Jeff,have a few
COME ON GUYS CAN SOMEONE HELP OUT HERE PLEASE
Cheers Steve, already on the cases
Help here is very good, biggest fault at the moment is the nut behind the wheel I think
IT LIVES
What a fuss. Mucky plugs. I had no spares and as they were new thought just drying them off and a wire brushing they would be OK. Nope
After using the blow torch adapter on the soldering iron and leaving them to get nice and hot on the radiadtor then whipping them in and starting quickly, fired up first time. Just done 20 miles to make sure.
The initial cause seems to have been the dodgy earth lead and 2 weeks of not starting=weak spark and flooding. The cable has been strapped with another until a suitable replacement can be found/made. As the plugs had fouled up the insulator for the end bit, it would show a spark but not be enough under load. Then throw in a diagram seems to show the banks reversed and then me=buggered right and proper.
Feeling quite a fool now but learnt a few things. All the advice here was spot on, everything was in the right hole and playing by the book etc.
Thanks to DJE for advice as well and the final solution.
Need one of them "kick me" stickers for my back to complete the feeling at the moment. What a plonker.
What a fuss. Mucky plugs. I had no spares and as they were new thought just drying them off and a wire brushing they would be OK. Nope
After using the blow torch adapter on the soldering iron and leaving them to get nice and hot on the radiadtor then whipping them in and starting quickly, fired up first time. Just done 20 miles to make sure.
The initial cause seems to have been the dodgy earth lead and 2 weeks of not starting=weak spark and flooding. The cable has been strapped with another until a suitable replacement can be found/made. As the plugs had fouled up the insulator for the end bit, it would show a spark but not be enough under load. Then throw in a diagram seems to show the banks reversed and then me=buggered right and proper.
Feeling quite a fool now but learnt a few things. All the advice here was spot on, everything was in the right hole and playing by the book etc.
Thanks to DJE for advice as well and the final solution.
Need one of them "kick me" stickers for my back to complete the feeling at the moment. What a plonker.
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