RE: Last Ever Blackpool TVR
Discussion
Slow M said:
I also find humour in the fact that Wheeler chose a Lilley era body.
The Heritage Grand Touring Car Challenge website said:
The series is the leading race series in Britain for sports, saloon and GT cars from the 1960s and 1970s.
Nothing PW oversaw in production would be within this period, so he has to use a Lilley based vehicle.Slow M said:
I think the word that causes the greatest problem here is "REPLICA." As with many replicas, the resemblance is only (barely) skin deep. By rights, any class that accepts this car for points racing would, by precedent, open the door to ANY Cobra, Corvette Grand Sport or other replica. Sadly, that word has become a note of permission for all the ambiguity anyone needs to build whatever they want and dress it up nicely and call it by another name. Of course there are replicas being built that are true to the original such as the Superformance GT 40, some Cheetahs and a number of others (60's Griffith).
While I think that this is a beautiful car, I also think it has VERY little to do with a 5000M.
It is funny to me that some of the people on this forum, who consider themselves purists, would proclaim any affinity for this car as, for them, it should have nothing to do with anything. I also find humour in the fact that Wheeler chose a Lilley era body.
Finally, the title of this article may be a misnomer. If this car is not equipped with a TVR chassis, it really can't be called a TVR unless it were built by the rightful owner of the brand.
B.
Oh yeah, I forgot the cutting remarks. Let's see,...the air goes in the front, gets heated by a coolant AND a huge oil radiator, passes by two huge twin cross over exhausts, picks up some more radiant engine heat and then supplies the air cleaner with all the fresh, cool intake charge it could ask for. Hmmmmm?
There is NO reason for the exhausts to not exit on their respective sides and for the air cleaner/carb to have a tub around them that separates them from engine compartment air.
A replica is a replica?While I think that this is a beautiful car, I also think it has VERY little to do with a 5000M.
It is funny to me that some of the people on this forum, who consider themselves purists, would proclaim any affinity for this car as, for them, it should have nothing to do with anything. I also find humour in the fact that Wheeler chose a Lilley era body.
Finally, the title of this article may be a misnomer. If this car is not equipped with a TVR chassis, it really can't be called a TVR unless it were built by the rightful owner of the brand.
B.
Oh yeah, I forgot the cutting remarks. Let's see,...the air goes in the front, gets heated by a coolant AND a huge oil radiator, passes by two huge twin cross over exhausts, picks up some more radiant engine heat and then supplies the air cleaner with all the fresh, cool intake charge it could ask for. Hmmmmm?
There is NO reason for the exhausts to not exit on their respective sides and for the air cleaner/carb to have a tub around them that separates them from engine compartment air.
I am not sure what you are alluding to Bernard?
All fia GTC cars can now be raced as replicas.
replica means to replicate IE make an identical copy.
Peter has taken some carefully selected TVR parts and built himself a car for himself and built it with some of his closest friends and ex workforce.
This is a TVR. The real deal made by TVR guys in the old TVR factory. It is what it is. it is unique.
A 5000m was a car taken to canada and given an engine transplant.
My griffith is a 68 Vixen stripped and re-built with genuine Griffith parts but still running the correct brazed Chassis, suspension and uprights IE a replica
Every 60's griffith Racing at the moment has the following non original parts fited:
Mig welded thicker tube chassis
T45 Non Original Wishbones
non std Rose Joints
non standard rear uprights
non standard rear Diff cage
Ford Granade / tuscan front hubs and uprights
rear Anti roll bar
Non original 2 pot jag calipers
non original 3 pot E type calipers
Wider non vented discs
Are they original? replicas or Kit cars made with other bits?
Jelly's car has a non original body and Chassis, Does that mean it is a kit car? Its not original? Its still a griffith though?
Sorry but the only people that get precious about originality are those who want to protect percieved value. Others just want to build, engineer and enjoy proper racing cars.
The talk on this thread on a positive news story about a man building a fabulous car is decending into farce by people who really have no idea about what TVR is and was about.
Bernard. Whats your last statement about? As someone who is building a 200MPH M I am surprised you haven't picked up on the main engineering reason for the exhausts to be a cross over design??
I am not going to post anymore on this thread, Only to say Peter, if you are reading this, All the best mate. and hopefully we can have a good natter in the paddocks next year and some good racing. First round is on me in the bar afterwards.
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Friday 31st October 16:46
heightswitch said:
A replica is a replica?
I am not sure what you are alluding to Bernard?
The article calls this a 5000M replica. I am not sure what you are alluding to Bernard?
heightswitch said:
replica means to replicate IE make an identical copy.
That's the definition I have in my head too, yet people market "replicas" of various cars that have little to to with the original they are named after. heightswitch said:
Peter has taken some carefully selected TVR parts and built himself a car for himself and built it with some of his closest friends and ex workforce.
This is a TVR. The real deal made by TVR guys in the old TVR factory. It is what it is. it is unique.
After the Maserati brothers sold the company that bore their name to the Orsi family, they built beautful cars called OSCA. This is a TVR. The real deal made by TVR guys in the old TVR factory. It is what it is. it is unique.
heightswitch said:
A 5000m was a car taken to canada and given an engine transplant.
Except, in some cases, when they were imported to Canada without engines. heightswitch said:
My griffith is a 68 Vixen stripped and re-built with genuine Griffith parts but still running the correct brazed Chassis, suspension and uprights IE a replica
Totally agree. heightswitch said:
Every 60's griffith Racing at the moment has the following non original parts fited:
Mig welded thicker tube chassis
T45 Non Original Wishbones
non std Rose Joints
non standard rear uprights
non standard rear Diff cage
Ford Granade / tuscan front hubs and uprights
rear Anti roll bar
Non original 2 pot jag calipers
non original 3 pot E type calipers
Wider non vented discs
Are they original? replicas or Kit cars made with other bits?
Jelly's car has a non original body and Chassis, Does that mean it is a kit car? Its not original? Its still a griffith though?
I don't know! this is the "grandpa's hammer" question and I debate it in my own head often. If the handle's been replaced twice and the head is new, is it still grandpa's hammer? It may not make a car a "kit car" but it comes back to the question at what point a car becomes a replica of itself. How much of the original has to remain? Are you familiar with the Maserati 151 "re-creation"? I read somewhere that it was built around a handful of parts from the crashed car. Mig welded thicker tube chassis
T45 Non Original Wishbones
non std Rose Joints
non standard rear uprights
non standard rear Diff cage
Ford Granade / tuscan front hubs and uprights
rear Anti roll bar
Non original 2 pot jag calipers
non original 3 pot E type calipers
Wider non vented discs
Are they original? replicas or Kit cars made with other bits?
Jelly's car has a non original body and Chassis, Does that mean it is a kit car? Its not original? Its still a griffith though?
heightswitch said:
Bernard. Whats your last statement about? As someone who is building a 200MPH M I am surprised you haven't picked up on the main engineering reason for the exhausts to be a cross over design??
No, I truly don't. I am under the impression that a Ford small block with peak power around 7000+RPM does well with a secondary length of +-14" to 20". I appreciate edification any time and neither embarass easily nor shy away from apology. What am I not seeing? A part of this comment related to the open air flow (under hood) to the carb. Best,
B.
Edited by Slow M on Friday 31st October 19:41
58 Tuscan said:
I know that it's normally a bad idea to stick your head above the parapet and invite those with old grudges to use the anonymity of a web forum to take pot shots at you - but both the positive and negative posts merit a reply.
Last weekend was an amazing one that, as a TVR nut for the last thirty years, brought a lump to my throat. I was there when Mansell drove a Tuscan, when the raspberry Cerbera broke Andy Wallace's XJ220 road car record on the Goodwood hill - on its debut, and when the Tuscan R formed up on the grid for Le Mans and, in its way, this meant as much to me. It was the debut of a stunning new TVR racing car with Peter Wheeler at the wheel - the man in whose hands TVR built cars that continue to bring so much pleasure to so many people.
Having driven both, I can testify that it certainly ain't a Tuscan in drag - but it does have a very big unfair advantage - it is stunningly prepared by Brian, Jonathan and Mike - some of the best people ever to have worked at TVR.
And you know what the best bit of all was? Seeing so many old TVR friends over the weekend. We'd all joked about how wrong it felt racing an Aston and it was great to see the TVRs parked up on the bank and the familiar faces coming down to the paddock to say hello.
All I can say is that I look forward to driving it again in what is a belting race series and hope it occasionally gives some of my fellow TVR nuts something to smile about - heaven knows we've needed it over the last few years...
Ben Samuelson
Hi BenLast weekend was an amazing one that, as a TVR nut for the last thirty years, brought a lump to my throat. I was there when Mansell drove a Tuscan, when the raspberry Cerbera broke Andy Wallace's XJ220 road car record on the Goodwood hill - on its debut, and when the Tuscan R formed up on the grid for Le Mans and, in its way, this meant as much to me. It was the debut of a stunning new TVR racing car with Peter Wheeler at the wheel - the man in whose hands TVR built cars that continue to bring so much pleasure to so many people.
Having driven both, I can testify that it certainly ain't a Tuscan in drag - but it does have a very big unfair advantage - it is stunningly prepared by Brian, Jonathan and Mike - some of the best people ever to have worked at TVR.
And you know what the best bit of all was? Seeing so many old TVR friends over the weekend. We'd all joked about how wrong it felt racing an Aston and it was great to see the TVRs parked up on the bank and the familiar faces coming down to the paddock to say hello.
All I can say is that I look forward to driving it again in what is a belting race series and hope it occasionally gives some of my fellow TVR nuts something to smile about - heaven knows we've needed it over the last few years...
Ben Samuelson
I was hoping you and PRW would be doing the Heritage race at Spa last October - we were running the Sagaris in the Dutch Supercar Challenge at the same meeting. Hopefully our racing paths will cross next season.
The car looks stunning, its great that you and Peter are back out in a TVR.
There are, sadly, some miserable 'contributors' on here. I clearly got away very lightly with my cross bred mongrel!
Cheers
Andy
Welcome home Ben. 
58 Tuscan said:
I know that it's normally a bad idea to stick your head above the parapet and invite those with old grudges to use the anonymity of a web forum to take pot shots at you - but both the positive and negative posts merit a reply.
Last weekend was an amazing one that, as a TVR nut for the last thirty years, brought a lump to my throat. I was there when Mansell drove a Tuscan, when the raspberry Cerbera broke Andy Wallace's XJ220 road car record on the Goodwood hill - on its debut, and when the Tuscan R formed up on the grid for Le Mans and, in its way, this meant as much to me. It was the debut of a stunning new TVR racing car with Peter Wheeler at the wheel - the man in whose hands TVR built cars that continue to bring so much pleasure to so many people.
Having driven both, I can testify that it certainly ain't a Tuscan in drag - but it does have a very big unfair advantage - it is stunningly prepared by Brian, Jonathan and Mike - some of the best people ever to have worked at TVR.
And you know what the best bit of all was? Seeing so many old TVR friends over the weekend. We'd all joked about how wrong it felt racing an Aston and it was great to see the TVRs parked up on the bank and the familiar faces coming down to the paddock to say hello.
All I can say is that I look forward to driving it again in what is a belting race series and hope it occasionally gives some of my fellow TVR nuts something to smile about - heaven knows we've needed it over the last few years...
Ben Samuelson
from all the cars pw created and all the enjoyment people have had and still have from tvr,s made during his ownership of the company, why is he not sir pw. there are a lot of kn**h***s out there called sir who have done less. Last weekend was an amazing one that, as a TVR nut for the last thirty years, brought a lump to my throat. I was there when Mansell drove a Tuscan, when the raspberry Cerbera broke Andy Wallace's XJ220 road car record on the Goodwood hill - on its debut, and when the Tuscan R formed up on the grid for Le Mans and, in its way, this meant as much to me. It was the debut of a stunning new TVR racing car with Peter Wheeler at the wheel - the man in whose hands TVR built cars that continue to bring so much pleasure to so many people.
Having driven both, I can testify that it certainly ain't a Tuscan in drag - but it does have a very big unfair advantage - it is stunningly prepared by Brian, Jonathan and Mike - some of the best people ever to have worked at TVR.
And you know what the best bit of all was? Seeing so many old TVR friends over the weekend. We'd all joked about how wrong it felt racing an Aston and it was great to see the TVRs parked up on the bank and the familiar faces coming down to the paddock to say hello.
All I can say is that I look forward to driving it again in what is a belting race series and hope it occasionally gives some of my fellow TVR nuts something to smile about - heaven knows we've needed it over the last few years...
Ben Samuelson
Hi all
I would like to thank ALL the people that have posted on this topic (good or bad),we just need to remember one thing! I like lots of things that others may not and vice virsa.
I'm sure that if I was to walk round the pits tyre kickin (something I do a lot),it woudn't take me long to pick holes in all but a few so called original cars but I choose not to, I prefer to see cars out racing and being used in the way intended.
The car is not a Tuscan Challenge in drag, far from it in fact!!!!!!
The exhaust system has still to be developed but still made the noise test.......just(thank god),even with those very small side pipes! Also heat inside the car is minimal because it all goes out the sides.
As for heat under the bonnet, forced into the carb 1: Have you looked closely at the way the car has been designed? 2: Have you been to a wind tunnel lately, if you have,then you will know lots of things can go on under the bonnet that you or I are sometimes not sure of, its just a starting point!
David Vizard
has written an artical on 90' v8 thumpers, maybe we can all learn something, and not apply 4 cyl screeming technology, I'm not to old/stuburn to learn or to try new things, the alternative is that we all stay in the cave UGH UGH GRRRRRR.
WE have tried to build a car for Mr wheeler that both he and ourselves can enjoy, as it developes and evolves, that is what life is all about, isn't it?
Jellison don't get yourself in a tiz it's not worth it, It's not a Tuscan Challenge chassis get over it.If it was it would be a lot quicker
!!!!!!!!!
AH just imagine that TC with no regs.................!!!!
Finally, a big thanks to Peter Wheeler, Ben Samuelson, Brian, Mike, Dave, Mick, Malc, Andy, Graham with an E, and the rest.........
Regards Jonathan.
I would like to thank ALL the people that have posted on this topic (good or bad),we just need to remember one thing! I like lots of things that others may not and vice virsa.
I'm sure that if I was to walk round the pits tyre kickin (something I do a lot),it woudn't take me long to pick holes in all but a few so called original cars but I choose not to, I prefer to see cars out racing and being used in the way intended.
The car is not a Tuscan Challenge in drag, far from it in fact!!!!!!
The exhaust system has still to be developed but still made the noise test.......just(thank god),even with those very small side pipes! Also heat inside the car is minimal because it all goes out the sides.
As for heat under the bonnet, forced into the carb 1: Have you looked closely at the way the car has been designed? 2: Have you been to a wind tunnel lately, if you have,then you will know lots of things can go on under the bonnet that you or I are sometimes not sure of, its just a starting point!
David Vizard
has written an artical on 90' v8 thumpers, maybe we can all learn something, and not apply 4 cyl screeming technology, I'm not to old/stuburn to learn or to try new things, the alternative is that we all stay in the cave UGH UGH GRRRRRR.WE have tried to build a car for Mr wheeler that both he and ourselves can enjoy, as it developes and evolves, that is what life is all about, isn't it?
Jellison don't get yourself in a tiz it's not worth it, It's not a Tuscan Challenge chassis get over it.If it was it would be a lot quicker
!!!!!!!!!AH just imagine that TC with no regs.................!!!!
Finally, a big thanks to Peter Wheeler, Ben Samuelson, Brian, Mike, Dave, Mick, Malc, Andy, Graham with an E, and the rest.........
Regards Jonathan.
Edited by jgr on Saturday 1st November 08:18
Jonathon, Brian - good to see you're both still up to (no?!) good. In some ways it only seems like yesterday I was trogging along to borrow your synchrometer (or Peter's full rad assembly at Knockhill!) - in other ways it feels a lifetime ago.
I really hope we do end up at the same meeting - it would be great to catch up with you all again. I'm hoping Ready will organise a Tuscan Challenge 20 year reunion in 2009 with an opportunity to all have a few beers.
Cheers
Andy
I really hope we do end up at the same meeting - it would be great to catch up with you all again. I'm hoping Ready will organise a Tuscan Challenge 20 year reunion in 2009 with an opportunity to all have a few beers.
Cheers
Andy
58 Tuscan said:
Marketing and free drive stuff
Ben - That was written very well (Peter Filbyish) by a very good PR/Marketing person who gets a free drive; have you considered a career in the press at all?? As I've said before I have no issue with the car racing but it's not a TVR by a long stretch unless you can say it's like TVRs were in the '60s - hell I had this arguement with Jelly about the fact Dad's Griffiths was a TVR V8 and not a Griffiths V8; the nuiances of TVR will continue forever!!
The title of this article has got mine, and many others backs up because it just aint true and no matter how many TVR fans are out there, the name is dead again and in this day and age of copyright it's over, jeez, look at my thread about racecars in computer games!! I love TVR cars but you can only go so far, jeez, I have the mis-fortune of owning several Vauxhall race-cars and they are about to die too!!
As has been said the 5000 was a "slightly" dodgy car in the first place and it was only built in Canada, nowhere else, so I think we go back to Haymarket shoddyness - do they publish Top Gear Magazine? (sorry, private joke!!)
I'll give certain people here a question; if my sister and I finally get the TVR Tina restored do you want us to race it in "homologated championships" or build it into so freak-show car?? There were two built, probably the same sa the 5000 but at least the Tinas were complete before they went to Mars.
A quick answer for Andy Holden - your cars are great, everyone knows what you're doing and you get on with it; taking nothing away from the guys who built the 5000, they did a bloody good job and I'd like them on my team but it's two very different stories and marketing!!
KIRSTM said:
Hi Johnathon, Brian and Ben 
Nice to see you guys on here. The car looks amazing as has already been said. It makes me smile that its so contraversial. I hope you will be posting up race dates when we can all come and spectate
Nice to see you guys on here. The car looks amazing as has already been said. It makes me smile that its so contraversial. I hope you will be posting up race dates when we can all come and spectate
its contraversial alright and its fantastic,
a true blackpool built car,
its a privilege to work with all involved.
mike v
We have built a car to go racing.It may not be a hamoligated car but has been built for a purpose.Not to compete in FAI THROUGH BREAD ETC just to go racing enjoy and no bull.The car is based on the M series and the clients wishes were to construct the car using all the m series parts trim body chassis as fiesably possably which we have done.One thing that is not m is 18"rims this mod has been done to sort gearing issues out as well as handling.
As to the comment made about this is not the last TVR made in Bpool this may be right.There might be more to follow not named as TVRs for obvious reasons.
Please try to stop making comments on the thread that sugest we have made this car to agrivate people with pucka"" TVRS we have not this car was built to put smiles on faces ie the drivers and us
Regards Brian
As to the comment made about this is not the last TVR made in Bpool this may be right.There might be more to follow not named as TVRs for obvious reasons.
Please try to stop making comments on the thread that sugest we have made this car to agrivate people with pucka"" TVRS we have not this car was built to put smiles on faces ie the drivers and us
Regards Brian
Hope you are keeping well Andy.We all miss the tuscans like you wouldnt belive.Hopfully it wont be long til we all meet again and drink beer like the good old days.Like you say it seems like moons ago since we were all there at the circuits with the Tuscans.
Take care Brian
Take care Brian
teamHOLDENracing said:
Jonathon, Brian - good to see you're both still up to (no?!) good. In some ways it only seems like yesterday I was trogging along to borrow your synchrometer (or Peter's full rad assembly at Knockhill!) - in other ways it feels a lifetime ago.
I really hope we do end up at the same meeting - it would be great to catch up with you all again. I'm hoping Ready will organise a Tuscan Challenge 20 year reunion in 2009 with an opportunity to all have a few beers.
Cheers
Andy
I really hope we do end up at the same meeting - it would be great to catch up with you all again. I'm hoping Ready will organise a Tuscan Challenge 20 year reunion in 2009 with an opportunity to all have a few beers.
Cheers
Andy
I've not seen the car and not being able to be at Brands to see its first race was a huge dissapointment.
The car looks magnificent from the photographs and I'm sure because of the folk involved in the build, the engineering will not be a dissapointment either.
Ben your original post on this thread was one of the better posts I've read on PH, well done. I will get my ex-works 3000M on the grid with you and Peter next year if we are all fortunate enough for that to be possible, I just need to find a second driver who will not be quicker than me and I know that will prove difficult.
I'm (now) a club racer who ambition passed by many years ago, fun is the prime objective and I'm sure it will be.
Good luck with the car.
The car looks magnificent from the photographs and I'm sure because of the folk involved in the build, the engineering will not be a dissapointment either.
Ben your original post on this thread was one of the better posts I've read on PH, well done. I will get my ex-works 3000M on the grid with you and Peter next year if we are all fortunate enough for that to be possible, I just need to find a second driver who will not be quicker than me and I know that will prove difficult.
I'm (now) a club racer who ambition passed by many years ago, fun is the prime objective and I'm sure it will be.
Good luck with the car.
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