Awesome Tuscan R - OH YES!
Discussion
MikeE: I think (and hope!) that you are wrong about that. £90k is getting really serious as it's the same price as a new 996 Porsche 911 Turbo. Even with the extra performance, etc., as discussed earlier, that's going to be tricky for TVR due to badge snobbery.
I'll re-read the article when I get home and see if it clears up this issue.
roadsweeper.
I'll re-read the article when I get home and see if it clears up this issue.
roadsweeper.
Its very interesting to see peoples thoughts and comparisons with the 355 & 360. The mere fact these sorts of comparisons are starting to be seriously made must be good for TVR and show they are on the right track. I just sincerely hope that they have the reliability and niggles sorted on this car as at £75K this will be the make or break IMO. Me personally, I would buy a 360 over a Tuscan R everytime, but you never know I may change that opinion over the next year as customers start to recieve their cars and we know for sure whether TVR have made the final hurdle. Lets hope !
In the meantime I need to call the factory about the close ratio gearbox backlog, so will ask about what you get for £75K. Will keep you posted
Mark
In the meantime I need to call the factory about the close ratio gearbox backlog, so will ask about what you get for £75K. Will keep you posted
Mark
Hi Mark
Excellent point regarding the comparisons with the 355 and 360 being good for TVR. But, like you say, if the car proves unreliable they are going to look very bad. But, and it's a big 'but', if the car is as good as the Evo article make it sounds and is reliable then it has the comparable Ferraris and Porsches licked on looks (obviously an individual opinion), value and performance.
I am definitely concerned about an engine that has been extremely unreliable in the past (though I believe it is better now?) being even more highly tuned. Like you say, lets hope!
Would be very interested to hear what TVR have to say about the £75k spec!
roadsweeper.
Excellent point regarding the comparisons with the 355 and 360 being good for TVR. But, like you say, if the car proves unreliable they are going to look very bad. But, and it's a big 'but', if the car is as good as the Evo article make it sounds and is reliable then it has the comparable Ferraris and Porsches licked on looks (obviously an individual opinion), value and performance.
I am definitely concerned about an engine that has been extremely unreliable in the past (though I believe it is better now?) being even more highly tuned. Like you say, lets hope!
Would be very interested to hear what TVR have to say about the £75k spec!
roadsweeper.
I really hope the Tuscan R is all it's cracked up to be. The article certainly hits all the right notes.
HOWEVER, putting my cynical hat on for a second, EVO mentioned that car is just a couple of months away from production. In that case WHY was the car featured lacking the sequential 6-speed 'box and uprated engine?
There's no excuse for customer's paying nigh on £50k to join TVR's development team never mind the £75k the Tuscan R is likely to cost.
I hope I'm wrong, and the car will be fully developed and whip all those £100k supercars on the road and track whilst without going out with a big bang.
This really could be TVR's chance to stand shoulder to shoulder with the "big boys". I just hope they don't blow it.
HOWEVER, putting my cynical hat on for a second, EVO mentioned that car is just a couple of months away from production. In that case WHY was the car featured lacking the sequential 6-speed 'box and uprated engine?
There's no excuse for customer's paying nigh on £50k to join TVR's development team never mind the £75k the Tuscan R is likely to cost.
I hope I'm wrong, and the car will be fully developed and whip all those £100k supercars on the road and track whilst without going out with a big bang.
This really could be TVR's chance to stand shoulder to shoulder with the "big boys". I just hope they don't blow it.
quote:
HOWEVER, putting my cynical hat on for a second, EVO mentioned that car is just a couple of months away from production. In that case WHY was the car featured lacking the sequential 6-speed 'box and uprated engine?
The same thought had occured to me. The same comment goes for the wobbly doors and mirrors.
This thread is following the ineviatble 'if you had £100k (or whatever) what would you buy' theme which I think is totally pertinent. TVR will never assail the walls of Ferrari & Porsche-dom because their racing heritage is in it's infancy. This could change in a decade or four depending on any successful race program development.
The question of reliability for the given outlay is an increasing red herring with TVR, though. Fact: until Audi, Lamos were no more reliable. Until the 355 (and even then and beyond) Maranello was never frightening Stuttgart on this issue. Bloody hell, Ferrari were just as desirable in the 1960s and 1970s when the cars REALLY were tempremental 'thoroughbreds' but BECAUSE of their heritage, pedigree and racing kudos it wasn't publicised that much. My 4.5 Cerby was a real shocker but so frickin' what? It was a highly tuned, race-style design and I was probably unluckier than some: indeed, I'd have one right now given a bit more paking/storage space. And I think we're all agreed that TVR HAS moved beyond the Jensen/Noble/Ultima 'kit car' accusations stage. Peter Wheeler should be knighted and reverred by us Brits,like Enzo - who was not exactly Mr Approachable himself. Let's be Goddam thankful TVR are on the map and rejoice accordingly. You know, when I pulled up at the Carlton Ritz in Cannes some time back (if you're gonna blow some cash in style - this beats Monte Carlo easy!) in the Cerb the staff were in a frenzy around it: some Yank seegar chomper patted me on the back and said something along the lines that it looked like it would dethrone any Ferrari it met...
My point is GIVE TVR A CHANCE! The new Tuscan R may just herald a new dawn in chassis design, set up etc. I don't think £75k for something THIS potent (even tho' it WILL depreciate like a brick - for the 'kudos' reasons described above) is at all pricey in real terms when a Ferrari BB would've cost what, £30k in 1975? Let's be honest, we need 'em all and for my part won't be happy until I have a Montague-style collection in a barn somewhere. Which will house at least 8 TVR models. At least. Well done TVR, I think you're fabulous.
The question of reliability for the given outlay is an increasing red herring with TVR, though. Fact: until Audi, Lamos were no more reliable. Until the 355 (and even then and beyond) Maranello was never frightening Stuttgart on this issue. Bloody hell, Ferrari were just as desirable in the 1960s and 1970s when the cars REALLY were tempremental 'thoroughbreds' but BECAUSE of their heritage, pedigree and racing kudos it wasn't publicised that much. My 4.5 Cerby was a real shocker but so frickin' what? It was a highly tuned, race-style design and I was probably unluckier than some: indeed, I'd have one right now given a bit more paking/storage space. And I think we're all agreed that TVR HAS moved beyond the Jensen/Noble/Ultima 'kit car' accusations stage. Peter Wheeler should be knighted and reverred by us Brits,like Enzo - who was not exactly Mr Approachable himself. Let's be Goddam thankful TVR are on the map and rejoice accordingly. You know, when I pulled up at the Carlton Ritz in Cannes some time back (if you're gonna blow some cash in style - this beats Monte Carlo easy!) in the Cerb the staff were in a frenzy around it: some Yank seegar chomper patted me on the back and said something along the lines that it looked like it would dethrone any Ferrari it met...
My point is GIVE TVR A CHANCE! The new Tuscan R may just herald a new dawn in chassis design, set up etc. I don't think £75k for something THIS potent (even tho' it WILL depreciate like a brick - for the 'kudos' reasons described above) is at all pricey in real terms when a Ferrari BB would've cost what, £30k in 1975? Let's be honest, we need 'em all and for my part won't be happy until I have a Montague-style collection in a barn somewhere. Which will house at least 8 TVR models. At least. Well done TVR, I think you're fabulous.
Hi derestrictor
First off, please don't get me wrong, I am a MASSIVE TVR fan - I own a Chimaera 400 and hope to get a Tuscan S next year, despite the worries over reliability! I'm also fiercely patriotic and am desperate to see TVR do well against Ferrari, Porsche and the like, as I suspect are many people on these boards. This is the reason I'm so concerned - I just want them to do well so I'm worried that they might get it wrong and damage their growing repuation.
As for your points regarding motorsport, etc. Of course you are right to a large extent. However, if the Tuscan R is as good as it sounds like it could be then it will be a huge boon for TVR and perhaps the start of them taking the fight to the opposition?....
I do think Peter Wheeler deserves a Knighthood far more than the likes of Mick Jagger, but I still don't agree with the current model range he has - I think the compete with each other too much.
Lets not forget that at the end of the day, TVR indisputably produce some of the most beautiful, inside and out, cars ever made. If they can can combine this with great handling and reliability they are surely going to be recognised as one of the great brands. For me, they're getting there already!
roadsweeper.
First off, please don't get me wrong, I am a MASSIVE TVR fan - I own a Chimaera 400 and hope to get a Tuscan S next year, despite the worries over reliability! I'm also fiercely patriotic and am desperate to see TVR do well against Ferrari, Porsche and the like, as I suspect are many people on these boards. This is the reason I'm so concerned - I just want them to do well so I'm worried that they might get it wrong and damage their growing repuation.
As for your points regarding motorsport, etc. Of course you are right to a large extent. However, if the Tuscan R is as good as it sounds like it could be then it will be a huge boon for TVR and perhaps the start of them taking the fight to the opposition?....
I do think Peter Wheeler deserves a Knighthood far more than the likes of Mick Jagger, but I still don't agree with the current model range he has - I think the compete with each other too much.
Lets not forget that at the end of the day, TVR indisputably produce some of the most beautiful, inside and out, cars ever made. If they can can combine this with great handling and reliability they are surely going to be recognised as one of the great brands. For me, they're getting there already!
roadsweeper.
One small point about the comparisons menioned - the 996TT's power is 100% usable due to 4x4 and sorted chassis, unlike the slightly hairier tivs. It comes down to that old chestnut of real world driving - would you fancy stamping on the tiv's accelerator coming out of a bend or in damp conditions?
I hope tiv can sort itself out but I can't help thinking they make things too difficault for themselves with their stubborn view on engines etc.
I hope tiv can sort itself out but I can't help thinking they make things too difficault for themselves with their stubborn view on engines etc.
roadrunner: Fair point, but see my earlier post in this thread:
I think that's one of the things that has got everyone so excited - i.e. the hope that the chassis will be a match for the awesom performance.
Regarding the engines, it's as much the fact that they seem to be using so many different variants on their basic AJP design as them actually building their own engines that seems to be causing the problems. Also, ultimately if they are going to be a true supercar manufacturer building their own engines is going to be seen as important - at the heart of every great car lies a great engine. (Just don't mention the Lotus Elise
) I suspect if there was a manufacturer of great British engines TVR would have been willing to use them as they did with Rover. However, ridiculously, there are none, so rather than use a non-British make PW went for bespoke engines. I think it could prove to be a good move in the long run, though if Rover start building incredible V8s and straight six engines there could be a change of heart!
roadsweeper.
quote:
"Cornering speeds are sensational - Tuscan R finds almost 911-like traction out of tight turns."
"It's incredibly tempting to throw caution to the wind and just max it all the way. I try to resist - surely it must be crawling with Gendarmes today of all days - and I'm doing alright to begin with until a Ferrari 355 blasts past while I'm doodling along at 110mph. The road's still empty and straight. Oh God, it's no good. I drop it into fourth and start to reel him in while, over in the passenger seat, Chris goes suddenly quiet. The Ferrari is really shifting but I'm into fifth and we're starting to close the gap. There's a bend approaching and I think he's starting to lift - yep, a momentary flash of brake lights - but there's no lifting going on in the Tuscan, just throttle down and staying down as we eat him up through the fast left-hand sweeper just like he's standing still.
It's the best demonstration you could have of what makes this car so special - we're doing over 160mph and there's no way you'd have the confidence to do that in any other TVR. The Tuscan R now combines the incredible performance TVRs have always had in abundance but with a chassis capable of using it to the full."
I think that's one of the things that has got everyone so excited - i.e. the hope that the chassis will be a match for the awesom performance.
Regarding the engines, it's as much the fact that they seem to be using so many different variants on their basic AJP design as them actually building their own engines that seems to be causing the problems. Also, ultimately if they are going to be a true supercar manufacturer building their own engines is going to be seen as important - at the heart of every great car lies a great engine. (Just don't mention the Lotus Elise
) I suspect if there was a manufacturer of great British engines TVR would have been willing to use them as they did with Rover. However, ridiculously, there are none, so rather than use a non-British make PW went for bespoke engines. I think it could prove to be a good move in the long run, though if Rover start building incredible V8s and straight six engines there could be a change of heart! roadsweeper.
Out of interest, what engines are used in the Motorsport versions of the Tuscan R?
Could TVR have been using the Tuscan and Tuscan R GT car to develop the Speed 6 all along?
Wish they could have raced the Speed 6 Tuscan S!
If all of the above is true then we could see a well sorted Speed 6 as a finished product across the range..
Could TVR have been using the Tuscan and Tuscan R GT car to develop the Speed 6 all along?
Wish they could have raced the Speed 6 Tuscan S!
If all of the above is true then we could see a well sorted Speed 6 as a finished product across the range..
quote:
One small point about the comparisons menioned - the 996TT's power is 100% usable due to 4x4 and sorted chassis, unlike the slightly hairier tivs. It comes down to that old chestnut of real world driving - would you fancy stamping on the tiv's accelerator coming out of a bend or in damp conditions?
Roadrunner - absolutely, IF we're looking at the 996TT but what about a GT2? Indeed, the 'hairy arsedness' of 'uber' TVRs is within reason, surely just a variant of what, say, Domster experiences c/o his new RS steed? And my own Porker has unquestionably now lost some of it's original mega-adhesion through sheer grunt; Phil at Tech9 said I'd have "to watch the roundabouts in the wet a bit!" Perhaps SOME twitchiness, a la 360 Modena, is 'a good thing' even if it compromises Total Driving Control? Maybe I'm contradicting myself and taking s***e but aren't we back to that great factor that makes all our faves so wondrous, i.e variety of experience? I dunno, it's all so confusing trying to decide what's your exact poison when you love everything! Maybe it's that oft cited 'x' factor called handling feel...
RR - I hate to bring this subject up but I still maintain the most ridiculously adhesive thing I've ever sampled was that mad, bad, crazy tumble dryer, the EVO VII - all you'd ever been taught about slow in, fast out went 'oot the window: here was a creation that said: "Ok, fast into the bend and ACCELERATE through the bend!" This felt surreal for a while but then I thought that maybe this isn't what driving's all about - letting the men from Nippon drive for me, as it were. Fast as hell though, but still not SUPERCAR fast. As a GripMeister though, little has ever come close and (I know, I know, 'max power alert') for the money? About as much class as a fart in a spacesuit, granted but Hootus Numero Uno or what?!
[Sorry for that, I'll promise to stick to exotica from now on.]
[Sorry for that, I'll promise to stick to exotica from now on.]
Roadsweeper! I've just bought EVO too AND I'VE CREAMED MYSELF!!! Give it to me baby, 'cos that bugger is SENSATIONAL!!! You know you're near the bullseye when the only thing to upstage you is a Pagani Mantis Zarathusa X5.23 GT Le Mans Trouser Remover...
Oh the sheer DRAMA of it - rosso pearlescent red, same as my beloved old Cerby.
Clearly QC issues are still unresolved from what the report said (rattley windows, etc) and the welds on the exposed chassis skeleton looked horrendous) but hopefully these are just the prototype's rough edges...
If uncle Harry IS to be believed and the car hasn't received TVR's oft-aledged 'special treatment for roadtesters only' then we may be looking at something seriously, deeply desirable for any self respecting PHer.
I want one like many others and quite frankly, it hurts. Diablo, 360 or Tuscan R? These are the essential questions of the day. But do you really believe 'that' 355 overtaking manoeuvre was SO convincing - usually such supercar brawls are much closer affairs but then again...
Apart from the 'unresolved' styling at the rear, generally just MAGNIFICENT! (Why oh why did this have to exist, it just confuses me even more.) Dribble.
Oh the sheer DRAMA of it - rosso pearlescent red, same as my beloved old Cerby.
Clearly QC issues are still unresolved from what the report said (rattley windows, etc) and the welds on the exposed chassis skeleton looked horrendous) but hopefully these are just the prototype's rough edges...
If uncle Harry IS to be believed and the car hasn't received TVR's oft-aledged 'special treatment for roadtesters only' then we may be looking at something seriously, deeply desirable for any self respecting PHer.
I want one like many others and quite frankly, it hurts. Diablo, 360 or Tuscan R? These are the essential questions of the day. But do you really believe 'that' 355 overtaking manoeuvre was SO convincing - usually such supercar brawls are much closer affairs but then again...
Apart from the 'unresolved' styling at the rear, generally just MAGNIFICENT! (Why oh why did this have to exist, it just confuses me even more.) Dribble.
I think the styling of the Tuscan R leaves a lot to be desired. Sorry. To me it looks a too much like an elongated hatchback and the front and rear ends lack visual impact. Granted the car looks good in Evo's photos when the camera is very low down - but given the other models in the range, I was disappointed.
As for the interior, I think the Cerbera is better in terms of dash shape, although I do like the newer style instruments.
Perhaps its one of those cars which looks fantastic in the flesh but not so good in photos.
Just my opinion.
I'll get me coat.....
As for the interior, I think the Cerbera is better in terms of dash shape, although I do like the newer style instruments.
Perhaps its one of those cars which looks fantastic in the flesh but not so good in photos.
Just my opinion.
I'll get me coat.....
Hi derestrictor!
Awesome isn't it?!! Glad you've read the article so it doesn't sound like I am going on about nothing!
I too noticed the welds on the inside and thought something could have been done about that. Too be honest, a good weld can look impressive, and I'm not saying that just because I have an engineering degree - just look at the deliberately exposed robot welds on the current sports bikes. The only problem is, if they're going to be on show they have to be perfect. Otherwise, they need to be covered up with something. Maybe a walnut panel or carbon fibre lookalike stick back plastic? What do you reckon?
Regarding the whipping of the 355 I suspect a combination of factors including a superior driver in the Tuscan R, but don't forget that the Tuscan R has a massive power-to-weight ratio advantage and probably superior grip to the Ferrari looking at the size of those tyres!
Ultimately, I guess we'll have to wait a couple of months to see what really emerges from the factory, but if it's as good as it looks then I WANT ONE!
griff2be: I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but I don't know how anyone can think the Tuscan R is ugly! Still, you obviously like the Griffith so your tastecan't be that bad!
roadsweeper.
Awesome isn't it?!! Glad you've read the article so it doesn't sound like I am going on about nothing!
I too noticed the welds on the inside and thought something could have been done about that. Too be honest, a good weld can look impressive, and I'm not saying that just because I have an engineering degree - just look at the deliberately exposed robot welds on the current sports bikes. The only problem is, if they're going to be on show they have to be perfect. Otherwise, they need to be covered up with something. Maybe a walnut panel or carbon fibre lookalike stick back plastic? What do you reckon?
Regarding the whipping of the 355 I suspect a combination of factors including a superior driver in the Tuscan R, but don't forget that the Tuscan R has a massive power-to-weight ratio advantage and probably superior grip to the Ferrari looking at the size of those tyres!
Ultimately, I guess we'll have to wait a couple of months to see what really emerges from the factory, but if it's as good as it looks then I WANT ONE!
griff2be: I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but I don't know how anyone can think the Tuscan R is ugly! Still, you obviously like the Griffith so your tastecan't be that bad!
roadsweeper.
Griff2be - steady son!
I don't necessarily disagree entirely - I'm just - like many others - a tad exuberant re. the 'Batman' factor/raw performance & handling claims.
It's exciting in itself which is what a lot of TVR loons are getting moist about but just taking another peek I see what you're saying. The dash would be better a la Cerb (the binnacle therein remains the nicest ever) and some of the lines are undoubtedly a little, shall we say confused?
But the raceback window is in itself delightful to me: I just think the backside is a dog's dinner. And I detest the use of brass fittings, even though these are thankfully fewer than the other Tuscans. I'd love to see it in that pearlescent black that the Tuscan S promo car was shot in (saw that car at the factory a few weeks ago and I fell to my kness in rapture).
Indeed, if anyone out there parks a light blue Tuscan outside the main court building near the castle congratulations because (a) it looks just wonderful and (b) sorry if it's exhausts were a little wonky when you came back to it a couple of weeks ago - I just couldn't help myself! (I was on hols with the missus & bairn by the way - not making an appearance I assure you!).
Drive one of these through casino square in Monaco: you're a movie star. Repeat the process in my Porsche or your Ferrari and you might as well be in a brown Daihatsu Charade...
I don't necessarily disagree entirely - I'm just - like many others - a tad exuberant re. the 'Batman' factor/raw performance & handling claims.
It's exciting in itself which is what a lot of TVR loons are getting moist about but just taking another peek I see what you're saying. The dash would be better a la Cerb (the binnacle therein remains the nicest ever) and some of the lines are undoubtedly a little, shall we say confused?
But the raceback window is in itself delightful to me: I just think the backside is a dog's dinner. And I detest the use of brass fittings, even though these are thankfully fewer than the other Tuscans. I'd love to see it in that pearlescent black that the Tuscan S promo car was shot in (saw that car at the factory a few weeks ago and I fell to my kness in rapture).
Indeed, if anyone out there parks a light blue Tuscan outside the main court building near the castle congratulations because (a) it looks just wonderful and (b) sorry if it's exhausts were a little wonky when you came back to it a couple of weeks ago - I just couldn't help myself! (I was on hols with the missus & bairn by the way - not making an appearance I assure you!).
Drive one of these through casino square in Monaco: you're a movie star. Repeat the process in my Porsche or your Ferrari and you might as well be in a brown Daihatsu Charade...
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