waxoyling and chassis work advice please.

[DustyC]

Got the Griff up on axle stands yesterday so I could waxoyl it.
Was very happy and amazed to see that the chassis is in perfect condition and looks brand new almost everywhere.

On the usual places of deteriation (out riggers) there is some minor surface rust where the coating has chipped away but slight scratch with a screwdriver reveals a good solid base.

In order to keep this parts as good as the rest of the car I was thinking of applying some rust remover/converter and then painting with hammerite.
Also before waxoyling I was going to clean the chassis with a stiff brush.

My questions are:

1: Whats good to use for treating the surface rust on the chassis? Am I being OTT in using the rust converter?
Whats good to use and do Halfords sell POR15?

2: How much do I need to clean before waxoyling? The chassis is completly dry (hasn't been on the road for a couple of months) and the dirt I've hooked out is all dry dust. Will a quick brushing off be adequate prior to waxoyling?

I already have a clear waxoyl kit and do know about covering the brakes before waxing!
The reason I ask all this is I was going to Waxoyl it before next weekend when I use the car for a trip to Cornwall but know Im thinking about leaving it raised a while longer and treating the small areas of surface rust while the best part of the driving season is over.

[RichardD]

There is a LOT of info on this if you search PH hard enough! Problem is that there is soo much, well it confused me, a bit..

www.frost.co.uk/productList.asp?catID=28
sell POR-15, Halfords don't as far as I know.

POR-15 gets very good mentions, just got some myself, tougher than Hammerite, brush off the loose and paint straight on.

Have a look at this thread on similar subject (ACT looking into epoxy, thumbsup for POR-15)
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=13&t=218798

Also

www.rust.co.uk/prodpage.cfm?CategoryID=8544&CFID=65653&CFTOKEN=18760562

[griffter]

DustyC said:

In order to keep this parts as good as the rest of the car I was thinking of applying some rust remover/converter and then painting with hammerite. Also before waxoyling I was going to clean the chassis with a stiff brush. My questions are: 1: Whats good to use for treating the surface rust on the chassis? Am I being OTT in using the rust converter? Whats good to use and do Halfords sell POR15? 2: How much do I need to clean before waxoyling? The chassis is completly dry (hasn't been on the road for a couple of months) and the dirt I've hooked out is all dry dust. Will a quick brushing off be adequate prior to waxoyling?

Stiff brush won't remove oil/grease, so if you're going to paint with anything, you'll need to degrease. Waxoil over oil/grease would probably be OK but I'd remove as much of it as possible. Stiff brush won't get into the nooks and crannies where the rust inevitably will do its worst (eg where outriggers run across the tops of the chassis mounting plates). This is where my 'weekend' job ended up taking 3 months as I probed everywhere with a screwdriver.

Halfords don't sell POR15, try Frost Auto Restoration - www.frost.co.uk. Amazingly, they'll mail order it. I didn't use POR15 as AFAIK it only 'kills' rust by creating an airtight covering. So if you've got any pin-pricks or missed a bit, the rust could take hold (I am prepared to be corrected on this). That said it is reputedly incredibly tough and makes an excellent external coating. I opted for zinc primer which has an anti-rust effect (allegedly and IME) and is readily available in a tin or a spray can for the afore-mentioned nooks and crannies (you'll want to brush in general though), tops of the outriggers etc. This is overpainted with stoneguard for a tough, chip-resistant coating.

That way I see it, a quick brush and rinse and/or degrease then a waxoyl will stave off further deterioration, and will need to be repeated year after year as if the waxoyl is diturbed, bare chassis is exposed. If you want to make good the coating (with hammerite/POR/paint) then waxyol, you'll get a much longer lasting finish - but it'll take ages and be thoroughly unpleasant to do. I did mine two years ago and as you can probably tell, am still haunted by the memories.

[DustyC]

Thanks for the advice.

Just popped out to Halfords and bought some "Kurust" from hammerite. Its a rust converter.
Also bought smooth silver grey hammerite so the bits I do match the rest of the chassis. (not that anyone ever sees it except for me, but I'll be seeing it a lot over the next few weeks by the sounds of things!).

Still trying to work out the best way to get to the top of the outrigger corners. I already clear majority of dirt out with an old screwdriver and bent metal bar. Guess I'll be painting it in much the same way!

I'll have a look at those other threads.

[puffsorted2]

Taken from the Por-Products POR15 website

"Surface must be dry and free of grease, oil, or other foreign substances. Use of 'rust converter' products is not recommended as they may affect bonding of POR-15 to metal. POR-15 likes to adhere to surfaces with 'tooth' rather than smooth, glossy surfaces."

[DustyC]

oh thats interesting.

Im using hammerite now anyway because I could buy it easier. (The rust converter is made by hammerite too).
Im only touching up the outriggers, the rest of the chassis is perfect.

I'll then be waxoyling the lot.

Should be good so long as I waxoyl each year and then in a few years time when I retire early I can do a full body off restoration in my own private 8 car wide fully equipped workshop.

Opps, slipped into dream mode again, back to work!

[David H]

You're nuts to use Hammerite Dusty, POR15 is roughly 351% better (IMHO). It is not a pleasent job under there, and you only want to do it once.

There's an under arch pic in my profile after finishing with POR15, hopefully I will never have to do it again

[DustyC]

oh balls to it. Just poured a large galss of wine!

I was only gonna touch up a couple of bits to protect them but I'll see if I can take the Hammerite back and buy POR15.

I know about frost. Bought millions of pounds worth of kit from them over the past couple of years since they have been sending me catalogues. Unfortunately its all kit in my imaginary workshop!

(Have used them though, good service. We get 3 catalogues now though, one for me, one for Girlfriend and one for old neighbours!)

[JoolzB]

If you're going the POR-15 root it's prob also worth getting some of the solvent because if you get it on you it's a right barsteward to get off once it's dried. Great stuff but the surface does have to be totally clear of grease and roughed up or it doesn't seem to adhere as well. Gloves and long sleeves are also advised as like I say once it's on you and dry it won't shift until your skin does

Have fun

[DustyC]

Looked through the catalogue and decided that already but thanks for the advice, I'll get some extra PPE too!

[selmer]

Any advice for me: I need to prepare the chassis at one location then travel 10 miles (on mixed road types) to then paint and waxoyl. Would a quick dry and clean at the other end be sufficient to get rid of all the crap?

[DustyC]

Why not just clean it down at location 2 and save yourself some effort.

[selmer]

DustyC said:

Why not just clean it down at location 2 and save yourself some effort.

I wonder why I didn't think of that?

[victormeldrew]

griffter said:

Halfords don't sell POR15, try Frost Auto Restoration - www.frost.co.uk. Amazingly, they'll mail order it. I didn't use POR15 as AFAIK it only 'kills' rust by creating an airtight covering. So if you've got any pin-pricks or missed a bit, the rust could take hold (I am prepared to be corrected on this). That said it is reputedly incredibly tough and makes an excellent external coating. I opted for zinc primer which has an anti-rust effect (allegedly and IME) and is readily available in a tin or a spray can for the afore-mentioned nooks and crannies (you'll want to brush in general though), tops of the outriggers etc. This is overpainted with stoneguard for a tough, chip-resistant coating.

POR-15 is best applied thickly, the thicker the better. There is little chance (if any) of pin pricks; it creeps on application. It bonds with rust/metal at a molecular level in fact, so your "only 'kills' rust by creating an airtight covering" is just a little wide of the mark!

The only real problem with POR is it won't stick on clean shiny metal, which you need to etch with Metal Ready primer, and if you are coating on top of an existing finish you may also get peeling; I recommend you make sure to paint it on liberally and ensure you coat all the way around the tubing. You then get a skin which even if not adhering to the existing surface will stay put as it will have effectively formed a plastic tube around the metal one - a sleeve. Pretty much what you would have expected the factory "plastic coating" to have been, but wasn't.

I've used a lot of rust proofers, converters, whatever over the years; never again. If I want something to stay rust free for as long as it matters (i.e until after I am pushing up daisies) then POR-15 it is. Ironically I now have a cupboard full of rusting tins of other products!



>> Edited by victormeldrew on Tuesday 22 November 12:22

[DustyC]

Ok then. my next question is whats a good method for painting all the way around the tube of the outriggers?
Apart from body off Im assuming the only way will be to spray but is POR15 sprayable and if so where can i buy a cheap device to do it with that I can throw away afterwards?

This is on a Griff and getting to the top of the out riggers will be impossible with a brush.

[NicBowman]

Hi, I used the POR-15 and was not impressed. I wire brushed, cleaned with thinners etc, painted carefully. But I found it peeled off very easily. In the end I took it all off with a scraper. Perhaps it has a shelf life? My can was a few years old (un-opened), but seemed okay. I am in the same situation, wanting to avoid brittle hammerite, but not confident in POR-15. What it needs is a flexible paint that sticks?


Nic

[David H]

NicBowman said:

Hi, I used the POR-15 and was not impressed. I wire brushed, cleaned with thinners etc, painted carefully. But I found it peeled off very easily. In the end I took it all off with a scraper. Perhaps it has a shelf life? My can was a few years old (un-opened), but seemed okay. I am in the same situation, wanting to avoid brittle hammerite, but not confident in POR-15. What it needs is a flexible paint that sticks? Nic

The wire brush will have made the surface very smooth, POR15 does not like this, you should have prepped it with the Metal Ready etch before painting.

Outriggers rust and have light surface pitting (well mine did) so the POR15 absolutely welded itself to these (which is good because this was the most important part to protect). The main box section of the chassis was not good to paint after wire brushing (to smooth), but after shot blasting the whole chassis (and then etching) the paint took very well.

I haven't tried it but I reckon POR15 would take very well to heavily rusted surfaces (once the loose stuff was removed).

[DustyC]

OK, Halfords took back the Hammerite.

I kept the rust converter though, could come in handy.
Am still sonsidering using it prior to the POR15 paint, or will that make the paint not stick?

What about using rust converter (KURUST by Hammerite) followed by Metal Ready by POR15 and then the POR15 on top?

Im not really sure what meatl ready does. The frost catalogue shows it as a rust converter but from reading posts on here it seems to just be a surface cleaner/prep.

[victormeldrew]

DustyC said:

OK, Halfords took back the Hammerite. I kept the rust converter though, could come in handy. Am still sonsidering using it prior to the POR15 paint, or will that make the paint not stick? What about using rust converter (KURUST by Hammerite) followed by Metal Ready by POR15 and then the POR15 on top? Im not really sure what meatl ready does. The frost catalogue shows it as a rust converter but from reading posts on here it seems to just be a surface cleaner/prep.

Metal Ready it an acid etch - it eats into the metal surface and chemically roughs it up ready for the POR to latch onto.

Rust convertor under the POR will do more harm than good - a waste of POR as it won't be in contact with the metal/rust to do its thing.

Any yes, just paint a patch or POR on top of a shiny surface as someone above did and it will peel off, probably in one big skin. As I've said several times in the past, you MUST paint it all the was round the tube if the surface is at all sub-par for POR - i.e. a previous paint finish that might not give a good key, but it will form an enveloping skin that won't come off. As with any paintwork, prep is 95% of the job.

The ideal surface for POR would be a nice shotbasted metal surrface which has been allowed to surface rust from a few days. Paint POR onto that and you wouldn't get it off with an angle grinder.

Getting right around the outriggers? Just pour it on thick enough so it drips everywhere, and brush off the excess at the bottom. Don't get too precious with it, you are probably going to cover it with waxoyl afterwards anyway.

[DustyC]

victormeldrew said:

Getting right around the outriggers? Just pour it on thick enough so it drips everywhere, and brush off the excess at the bottom. Don't get too precious with it, you are probably going to cover it with waxoyl afterwards anyway.

Thats the problem, pour it on where?!
I cant get to the top of the outriggers.
I can at the front, near the front wheel arch, but along the sides its not possibel as the outrigger is enclosed in the body work. Only the very bottom is visible.

Only way I can see is a body off job and Im not going that far....yet!

Since the rest of the chassis is A1 new Im in no doubt that the top of the outriggers is fine and still has its coating anyway. Like you say, best to get POR15 all the way round but its not gonna be possible.