TVR CHIMAERA V LOTUS ESPRIT TURBO
Discussion
After going to the the S.E meet yesterday,i got talking to a bloke(for those who know him,(graham)who is an authority on the lotus marque.Whilst talking to him,i realised my yearnings for a lotus turbo esprit were coming back.Before buying my tvr i seriously considered buying a lotus,but i was sold on the sound of the V8.Ive always considered the lotus as an understated british supercar,whos looks still look fresh all these years on IMHO.Can any one give me there views on ownership of one of these cars(guigaro design)post 88.I know i have posted this on the tvr site so i would like a fair and unbiased comparison. Many thanks Mark.
I've just bought a '95 Chimaera, and up till a few months back my friend had a '90 Turbo esprit which he let me drive now and again.
Acceleration wise, on paper their about the same I think (about 4.5 secs) but in the Lotus it felt as though it was faster as the turbo stuck your head to the headrest. I know what you mean about the sound though, you can't beat a V8.
I toyed with the idea of a Lotus esprit, but I realised that everything I loved about the Lotus the Chimaera could better.
The Chimarera (in my opinion) look sexier, turns more heads, gets more respect, has more room (boot and driver space), nicer interior, beats the Lotus on sound and (compared to my mates esprit) is more reliable. He had hassle with the turbo. I think the esprit, as nice a car as it is, is a bit dated now.
And also, in a Chimaera you don't bang your leg on that bast**d handbrake they convieniently but by the driver door!!
Acceleration wise, on paper their about the same I think (about 4.5 secs) but in the Lotus it felt as though it was faster as the turbo stuck your head to the headrest. I know what you mean about the sound though, you can't beat a V8.
I toyed with the idea of a Lotus esprit, but I realised that everything I loved about the Lotus the Chimaera could better.
The Chimarera (in my opinion) look sexier, turns more heads, gets more respect, has more room (boot and driver space), nicer interior, beats the Lotus on sound and (compared to my mates esprit) is more reliable. He had hassle with the turbo. I think the esprit, as nice a car as it is, is a bit dated now.
And also, in a Chimaera you don't bang your leg on that bast**d handbrake they convieniently but by the driver door!!
My take is that Lotus recently have lost the plot. Whilst the likes of TVR, Noble and even little old Morgan have taken things to a new level, little old Lotus have sat firmly in the past and "muttered about the good old days".
Before I bought the Noble I tested a large number of Esprit's and other marques. Whilst I always imagined myself, from about the age of 7 or 8, being in an Esprit, to actually step into one some 20*cough* years later was the biggest letdown I have ever experienced.
My brother had 4 in his short time between 25 and 28, and I remember fondly the many times he lobb'd me around many a twisty in his Esprits - but nowdays the magic has gone, the directness is missing, and to be blunt, they just feel plain dam slow!
The Sport 300 was, IMHO the pinical. From there, Lotus as a company has just plumeted into the abis. Look at the Elise - in '97 it was fresh, exciting and most importantly pure "raw". In '03, it looks like a 5 year old styled it, it's lost that "raw" edge and become a benign understeerer (JC's TG show was a classic - sure it behaves well if you know what you are doing, but for the 'general public' it's an understeering pile of blamange.)
I've massive respect for PW and his team. Whilst I can't say I actually like the latest TVR styling (the Tamora for me is just 'urgh'), I have to take my hat off, because between him and Lee Noble, they have taken the Colin C's ideals and delivered on it. The T350 is getting better in the styling game, and I'm sure PW will eventally take over from the "Lotus" mainstream spot....
I hope that Lotus works this out, and personally I hope it stops running after "GM's cheque book" producing such anti ColinC's cars as the VX.
Nothing persay wrong with the VX given it is a "Vauxhall" - just I am sure ColinC would be turning in his grave if he saw what business Lotus was running after!
In summary, having been a "boy" that lusted after Lotus for the last 20 years, it's telling that when it actually came to it, I bought a Noble from a main TVR dealer!
J
Before I bought the Noble I tested a large number of Esprit's and other marques. Whilst I always imagined myself, from about the age of 7 or 8, being in an Esprit, to actually step into one some 20*cough* years later was the biggest letdown I have ever experienced.
My brother had 4 in his short time between 25 and 28, and I remember fondly the many times he lobb'd me around many a twisty in his Esprits - but nowdays the magic has gone, the directness is missing, and to be blunt, they just feel plain dam slow!
The Sport 300 was, IMHO the pinical. From there, Lotus as a company has just plumeted into the abis. Look at the Elise - in '97 it was fresh, exciting and most importantly pure "raw". In '03, it looks like a 5 year old styled it, it's lost that "raw" edge and become a benign understeerer (JC's TG show was a classic - sure it behaves well if you know what you are doing, but for the 'general public' it's an understeering pile of blamange.)
I've massive respect for PW and his team. Whilst I can't say I actually like the latest TVR styling (the Tamora for me is just 'urgh'), I have to take my hat off, because between him and Lee Noble, they have taken the Colin C's ideals and delivered on it. The T350 is getting better in the styling game, and I'm sure PW will eventally take over from the "Lotus" mainstream spot....
I hope that Lotus works this out, and personally I hope it stops running after "GM's cheque book" producing such anti ColinC's cars as the VX.
Nothing persay wrong with the VX given it is a "Vauxhall" - just I am sure ColinC would be turning in his grave if he saw what business Lotus was running after!
In summary, having been a "boy" that lusted after Lotus for the last 20 years, it's telling that when it actually came to it, I bought a Noble from a main TVR dealer!
J
I guess the main thing is that Lotus have had a mixed bag of owners over the past few years, with no clear sense of direction.
The main diff between TVR and Noble is that PW runs it like his train set as he's eminently able to do as his company, Lee Noble runs a figures driven business in conjunction with the emotive element.
Strangely enough, I prefer the looks of TVR, but the mechanics / business acumen of Noble. If I were to wake up tomorrow moew sober than I am now, I'd fall into bed with a nice engine manufacturer in the US with a V6 and a V8, sub contract manufacture to somewhere even cheaper than Blackpool and use the English link to add the bespoke element.
Controversial maybe, but I'm convinced TVR have in effect lost a half-generation of potential owners with the reality/stories of the Sp6 (mainstream) engine, whether truth or not. Bugger where the oily/painted bits come from - the only things i'm interested about being "internally constructed" are the ones I touch - though I hate the floor mounted pedals in the new brigade.
The main diff between TVR and Noble is that PW runs it like his train set as he's eminently able to do as his company, Lee Noble runs a figures driven business in conjunction with the emotive element.
Strangely enough, I prefer the looks of TVR, but the mechanics / business acumen of Noble. If I were to wake up tomorrow moew sober than I am now, I'd fall into bed with a nice engine manufacturer in the US with a V6 and a V8, sub contract manufacture to somewhere even cheaper than Blackpool and use the English link to add the bespoke element.
Controversial maybe, but I'm convinced TVR have in effect lost a half-generation of potential owners with the reality/stories of the Sp6 (mainstream) engine, whether truth or not. Bugger where the oily/painted bits come from - the only things i'm interested about being "internally constructed" are the ones I touch - though I hate the floor mounted pedals in the new brigade.
sorry sorry sorry
dannyboyo said: I've just bought a '95
And also, in a Chimaera you don't bang your leg on that bast**d handbrake they convieniently but by the driver door!!
I used to drive a Delorean (identical handbrake placement) and though the unusual design took a little getting used to - once I did, it wasn't a problem.
Of course, the gullwing door may have helped as you leave a Delorean at sort of a diagonal "up and out" angle rather than a horizontal slide as you probably do from a closed-top Lotus.
joust said: ...I have to take my hat off...
Isn't there enough headroom in the Noble then.
Back on topic it would probably stand to reason that the Lotus is the better handling car (although that's very subjective), whereas the TVR has more presence, particularly in terms of RUMBLE.
But the most important part of a driver's car is the driver and his interface (i.e. seating position, location of controls, the useability of these controls etc.). If they're not right for you, then no matter how good the car is supposed to be, it will never truly work for you.
So basically test the two cars and which ever works properly for you, will be the better driver's car for you.
I'm 6'4, and long in body. I could only just squeeze myself into Rob Ellis' lovely Esprit V8, and then my head had to be tilted to one side. The pedal position was awkward as well, due to the offset position. I was really gutted as the esprit had been the only car I truly lusted after since I was a kid, but as mentioned above, a drivers car has to be comfortable to actually drive. I had to kiss it goodbye and get a Griff instead. Really happy with it, and the sound is just magnificent! Still think I prefer the push in the back of a big turbo though.....
A belated replies better than none! Anyway, I've got exactly this quandry at the moment: Cerbera or Esprit?
Well I've test driven both now, so here's my thoughts:
Esprit: Fantastically good looking car (I tested a 99 V8), more eyecatching than the Cerb. Bland interior. Too quiet (could be fixed). Too refined; basically it all just felt a bit too easy - it was quiet and composed at high speed, turned in well with no roll and beautifully damped but was lacking in the feedback department for me (this came as a surprise relative to the test reports I've read, maybe I needed to try it on track?). Overall, great car but just not exciting enough to drive - I didn't feel like I was driving something really special. Looks great though. Oh, and yes it was BLOODY fast. Hardly any lag either.
Cerbera: Great looking, very important to choose a good colour. EXTREMELY fast (I tested an earlyish 4.2), wonderfully responsive with fantastic power that just builds through the rev range, bloody rapid! (Faster than the Esprit). Fabulous interior style, very comfortable to sit in. Handling a good step forward from the Chimaera and - for me - more enjoyable more of the time than the Esprit. The Esprit may very well have the last ounce of handling balance + subtlety on track, but for most of your driving most of the time the Cerb is just more fun. Bags of feedback, lovely super direct steering, nicely controlled at the back and just plain more exciting. The fact that the Cerb is infinitely more practical than the Esprit is simply an added bonus.
So you'll gather that I was a touch disappointed by the Lotus - it didn't deliver the driving experience I was hoping for, whereas the Cerb did...
>> Edited by trackdemon on Wednesday 12th February 10:13
>> Edited by trackdemon on Wednesday 12th February 10:14
Well I've test driven both now, so here's my thoughts:
Esprit: Fantastically good looking car (I tested a 99 V8), more eyecatching than the Cerb. Bland interior. Too quiet (could be fixed). Too refined; basically it all just felt a bit too easy - it was quiet and composed at high speed, turned in well with no roll and beautifully damped but was lacking in the feedback department for me (this came as a surprise relative to the test reports I've read, maybe I needed to try it on track?). Overall, great car but just not exciting enough to drive - I didn't feel like I was driving something really special. Looks great though. Oh, and yes it was BLOODY fast. Hardly any lag either.
Cerbera: Great looking, very important to choose a good colour. EXTREMELY fast (I tested an earlyish 4.2), wonderfully responsive with fantastic power that just builds through the rev range, bloody rapid! (Faster than the Esprit). Fabulous interior style, very comfortable to sit in. Handling a good step forward from the Chimaera and - for me - more enjoyable more of the time than the Esprit. The Esprit may very well have the last ounce of handling balance + subtlety on track, but for most of your driving most of the time the Cerb is just more fun. Bags of feedback, lovely super direct steering, nicely controlled at the back and just plain more exciting. The fact that the Cerb is infinitely more practical than the Esprit is simply an added bonus.
So you'll gather that I was a touch disappointed by the Lotus - it didn't deliver the driving experience I was hoping for, whereas the Cerb did...
>> Edited by trackdemon on Wednesday 12th February 10:13
>> Edited by trackdemon on Wednesday 12th February 10:14
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