Noble VS Sagaris
Discussion
Has anyone driven both on the track? I really cant see myself selling my cerbie, but I got to drive a noble on the track this weekend, and was left feeling very impressed indeed. The noble felt much more responsive, certainly more precise than the cerbie, which comparitively felt like a lot of unnecessary hard work. Admitedly I have limited knowlege and not very much automotive experience, but going on what Ive read on PH, the Saggy is supposed to be far grown up and more trackable TVR. Whose been for a spin down the Noble/TVR lane, and back?
not owned but have driven on the track.
Noble is better, but less rewarding / demanding. exceptional chassis/steering will make an average guy quick but you may tire of it...many do! has to be said tho, top notch. drinks like a fish!!!!!!
saggy, very good TVR track car and allrounder. T350 with poke and an improved set up. the t350 is pretty good anyway! not as well built as the Noble and i would always have the SP6 "issue" in my mind. very rewarding , and quick, in the right hands! it also has pretty neutral handling, especially for a TVR. i loved it, tho it lacked power low down for me...so i still have my Griff!
which one would i have?
my Griff, but if not...
SAGGY!
edgier...wilder looks...more fun!
(but i haven't driven the M400???)
andy
monster
Noble is better, but less rewarding / demanding. exceptional chassis/steering will make an average guy quick but you may tire of it...many do! has to be said tho, top notch. drinks like a fish!!!!!!
saggy, very good TVR track car and allrounder. T350 with poke and an improved set up. the t350 is pretty good anyway! not as well built as the Noble and i would always have the SP6 "issue" in my mind. very rewarding , and quick, in the right hands! it also has pretty neutral handling, especially for a TVR. i loved it, tho it lacked power low down for me...so i still have my Griff!
which one would i have?
my Griff, but if not...
SAGGY!
edgier...wilder looks...more fun!
(but i haven't driven the M400???)
andy
monster
I spent 2 months back end of last year testing both a Noble and Sagaris for ownership. I do about 6-8 track days a year including the Ring and Spa.
After driving both M400 and M3 Nobles I find them both very capable and I'm sure quicker around track. The M400 is a better cockpit with improved pedal layout (heel & toe possible) and feels generally more refined at the limit. My Sagaris hasn't been on a track yet but with recent spirited driving I think it will perform to my expectation. The main reason for buying the Sagaris is my long desire too own a TVR and the sheer pleasure of sitting in this one. the cabin makes you feel your in a special place and the attention to detail is stunning. One other key reason is luggage space. The Noble has nil and the Sagaris has quite a good boot and will be ideal for the continent.
If absolute track performance is your thing then maybe the Noble has it, but if you want to use for general road use then no question the Sagaris is the better car. One last point, I'm sure the Sagaris will slide far easier than the Noble, so airfield days will be part of my calendar when tyres are close to their limit. I'm sure which ever will leave a smile on your face.
After driving both M400 and M3 Nobles I find them both very capable and I'm sure quicker around track. The M400 is a better cockpit with improved pedal layout (heel & toe possible) and feels generally more refined at the limit. My Sagaris hasn't been on a track yet but with recent spirited driving I think it will perform to my expectation. The main reason for buying the Sagaris is my long desire too own a TVR and the sheer pleasure of sitting in this one. the cabin makes you feel your in a special place and the attention to detail is stunning. One other key reason is luggage space. The Noble has nil and the Sagaris has quite a good boot and will be ideal for the continent.
If absolute track performance is your thing then maybe the Noble has it, but if you want to use for general road use then no question the Sagaris is the better car. One last point, I'm sure the Sagaris will slide far easier than the Noble, so airfield days will be part of my calendar when tyres are close to their limit. I'm sure which ever will leave a smile on your face.
jellison said:I only had about 6 minutes in the noble, which was enough to get a feel for the car and push it a bit. With the accelerator being so incredibly light (like feathering a feather, compared to the cerb) it took a bit of getting used to, and to be fair I kep the revs up, and didnt have time to think about turbo lag - I didnt notice any although it was probably there, I was enjoying the moment so much to notice. But yes... very easy to break traction, and much easier to maintain traction under heavy braking with a spongier, softer and more precise pedal movement than the cerb which I also liked. I cant see myself buying one without bootspace, I'd miss everything TVR too much. Cant see myself buying a speed 6 either. (more sound reasons than reliability reasons) With a first taster of something other than a cerbera, I can finally other cerbera owners comments of it not being the best track car re: handling, a little better than before. I just... didnt have a clue before Sunday
What is the lag like? Turbo's when not in the GO zone - just seem pain the butt to me.
Theres nothing to stop you from making your Cerbera more track focused... Will be worth talking to any of the Cerbera owners who track thiers regularily- (JesFirth, Cirvy, TooTallPaul, CeeJay etc etc)
Or get on the phone to one of the specialists out there, I certainly recommend Joolz (trackcar) at TrackCarSolutions.
The Cerbera will never quite match the Noble (more focused in more ways than just the chassis) but as has been said elsewhere, it can make up for it in terms of throttle-steer- ability and boot space!! You can make a Cerbera handle in a far more composed manor than standard, having been in Jousts Noble, (hes a nutter, lovely bloke, but just doesnt seem to brake much) its immense, but just didnt tick all the boxes for me.
That said, I can see one on the fleet alongside the Cerb...
(Ignore spelling/ grammar/ structure mistakes - had a bad day lol)
Or get on the phone to one of the specialists out there, I certainly recommend Joolz (trackcar) at TrackCarSolutions.
The Cerbera will never quite match the Noble (more focused in more ways than just the chassis) but as has been said elsewhere, it can make up for it in terms of throttle-steer- ability and boot space!! You can make a Cerbera handle in a far more composed manor than standard, having been in Jousts Noble, (hes a nutter, lovely bloke, but just doesnt seem to brake much) its immense, but just didnt tick all the boxes for me.
That said, I can see one on the fleet alongside the Cerb...
(Ignore spelling/ grammar/ structure mistakes - had a bad day lol)
Spent quite a bit of time wondering about this myself. I currently have a 51 plate Tuscan S.
Sag is cheaper to change to, more practical, but is it hugely different to/better than what I have already? It's certainly uglier.
Noble is more expensive (M400 is, anyway), less practical (but if you only/largely use it for trackdays or other fun that doesn't matter), probably better build quality. There is quite noticeable turbo lag but I doubt you'd even notice it if you were on track in the high revs. All reported magazine tests seem to show it's quicker than the Sag (and even a GT3 RS for that matter) round tracks. The seats are better than the Sag for track use, but less comfortable otherwise.
They are actually quite different cars despite the fact that they appeal to the same sort of people.
Sag is cheaper to change to, more practical, but is it hugely different to/better than what I have already? It's certainly uglier.
Noble is more expensive (M400 is, anyway), less practical (but if you only/largely use it for trackdays or other fun that doesn't matter), probably better build quality. There is quite noticeable turbo lag but I doubt you'd even notice it if you were on track in the high revs. All reported magazine tests seem to show it's quicker than the Sag (and even a GT3 RS for that matter) round tracks. The seats are better than the Sag for track use, but less comfortable otherwise.
They are actually quite different cars despite the fact that they appeal to the same sort of people.
jellison said:If the sag game with an AJP (or any V8 for that matter) I'd start saving my pennies. Ive driven one, but only for a few minutes and cant really remember what it was like (other than quiet, compared to the cerb
Must be quicker than Sag - they just do not seem to have much torque but loads of revs!
Horses for courses though. I'd have Say with Cerb RR engine.
)I can't see any basis whatsoever for the Noble being better built than a Sagaris. As for which looks better there's no contest in my purely subjective opinion.
The Sagaris isn't the all out trackcar that was originally planned but it's a better road car as a result. It's a good trade off i reckon.
As for the Cerb round a track. I had a 22B Impreza and was able to pass just about everything around Brands Hatch GP a few years ago. That is apart from two absolutely flying Cerbs. To this day one of the most impressive turns of speed I've seen at a trackday. I'm sure they were being very well driven, certainly being driven very hard - One had to pull over as he cooked the brakes.
One thing's for sure though, the Cerb can cut it round a track if you're good enough and have the car set up well.
I haven't taken my Sagaris on a track yet but I expect it to be quite fun. It's an absolutely epic road car though as it is.
The Sagaris isn't the all out trackcar that was originally planned but it's a better road car as a result. It's a good trade off i reckon.
As for the Cerb round a track. I had a 22B Impreza and was able to pass just about everything around Brands Hatch GP a few years ago. That is apart from two absolutely flying Cerbs. To this day one of the most impressive turns of speed I've seen at a trackday. I'm sure they were being very well driven, certainly being driven very hard - One had to pull over as he cooked the brakes.
One thing's for sure though, the Cerb can cut it round a track if you're good enough and have the car set up well.
I haven't taken my Sagaris on a track yet but I expect it to be quite fun. It's an absolutely epic road car though as it is.
one thing I'd very much like to know is how Sags actually get on, on track.
I went on the "TVR Monster" day at Snetterton. As far I recall there were 3 Sags there: a red one, with a very unhappy owner, which never went on track; Yellow Peril, who couldn't get more than 3/4 revs; and a grey one driven like the wind by Michael Caine (who p*ssed off the track marshals with his doughnuts). The Cerbs were flying that day too.
I went on the "TVR Monster" day at Snetterton. As far I recall there were 3 Sags there: a red one, with a very unhappy owner, which never went on track; Yellow Peril, who couldn't get more than 3/4 revs; and a grey one driven like the wind by Michael Caine (who p*ssed off the track marshals with his doughnuts). The Cerbs were flying that day too.
UKBob said:
Must be quicker than Sag - they just do not seem to have much torque but loads of revs!
Horses for courses though. I'd have Say with Cerb RR engine.
Spot on mate, couldn't agree more, think it would be an absolute winner! best engine TVR ever made in latest, probably most sorted chassis would really be something.
spartacus said:I took it for a test drive, and it actually felt slower then the cerb, by about 30%! Didnt have the raw speed factor/feel the sound a cerb with a decat and sports pipes has. Hence, it "sounded" (felt) slower. Less fun, you might say (actually it was just me that said that
Must be quicker than Sag - they just do not seem to have much torque but loads of revs!
Horses for courses though. I'd have Say with Cerb RR engine.
Spot on mate, couldn't agree more, think it would be an absolute winner! best engine TVR ever made in latest, probably most sorted chassis would really be something.
) Thats probably a lame judgement on a fine car, but my ignoramus approach to judging has changed massively, after driving the noble on the track. For the first time, I can really appreciate what good chassis/setup banter is all about. Which is why I posted. Based on what Ive read/heard, the saggy is leages ahead of the cerb, re: setup.
For me, it begs the question... is a noble or a saggy a car I would want to buy, if it didnt send those shivers up my spine in the same way the cerb/RV8's do, especially if 99% of the time, it'll be driven on the road?
Dont mean to sound too opinionated chaps, just thinking out loud (and putting my neck on the line, fire away
)As has been said, Nobles and the Sagaris are different types of motor. As a trackcar, the Noble is faster, as a roadcar the Sagaris is in a different league to the Noble...any of them. You have to spend time with a Sagaris to "get it" and understand what TVR have somehow done. In a lot of ways it is a throwback car to a type no longer made. The Noble is a modern hard edge trackcar...and it is is supreme in its environment. Outside of a Caterham/Westfield/Atom, the damn things are untouchable on the track. What they are not for is carrying 2 ppl and their luggage and pulling duty as a GT.
The Sagaris has been executed though in a similar vein to a 250TdF. You can take it to the track and hammer it within 0.5-1 second of a Noble and GT3RS lap after lap. Then you can pack for 2 up and go off round Britain across the Channel. The nearest comparison to a TVR Sagaris is basically Ferrari's 250 series. A GT trackcar.
The Sagaris has been executed though in a similar vein to a 250TdF. You can take it to the track and hammer it within 0.5-1 second of a Noble and GT3RS lap after lap. Then you can pack for 2 up and go off round Britain across the Channel. The nearest comparison to a TVR Sagaris is basically Ferrari's 250 series. A GT trackcar.
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