Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
johnwilliams77 said:
I though p zeros were up there with the best?
I'd class then as a decent premium summer tyre. I'm sure some would argue that there are better tyres and I've no particular preference for Pirelli products, so be it.My point was that there are tyres available that would potentially offer me theoretically improved performance far in excess of what it would be realistic to exploit on the road.
Finally found the time to swap the Insignia Summer alloys to the Winter steels yesterday - I've had other things to do whilst the weather has been mild.
It has felt a little like it was tiptoeing around over the last week, and Wife had to resort to "Driving to the Conditions" (Slow) in Friday's dusting of snow, she says she didn't feel safe. Winters on and Wife and Child both now safe for the school run.
It's the first winter in 6 years I have allowed one of our cars to run into the Cold/Snow/Black Ice season on summers, and its interesting to see she felt the difference.
Incidentally its on 245/45x18 Nokian Z-Line with 5mm tread, so it wasn't short of rubber, and they stick like "something" to a blanket in the warm. Swapped for a set of 215/55x17 Goodyear Ultragrip 8P.
If you feel you don't need Winter Tyres, that's fine, but I like to widen the safety margin for SHMBO, as she is not a Driving Goddess.
It has felt a little like it was tiptoeing around over the last week, and Wife had to resort to "Driving to the Conditions" (Slow) in Friday's dusting of snow, she says she didn't feel safe. Winters on and Wife and Child both now safe for the school run.
It's the first winter in 6 years I have allowed one of our cars to run into the Cold/Snow/Black Ice season on summers, and its interesting to see she felt the difference.
Incidentally its on 245/45x18 Nokian Z-Line with 5mm tread, so it wasn't short of rubber, and they stick like "something" to a blanket in the warm. Swapped for a set of 215/55x17 Goodyear Ultragrip 8P.
If you feel you don't need Winter Tyres, that's fine, but I like to widen the safety margin for SHMBO, as she is not a Driving Goddess.
This isn't a slight on you at a all, and for other people's benefit I'm not criticising your choice or in any way suggesting you should not fit winters tyres in any way.
But one thing you've said isinteresting.
While on summer tyres your missus "drove to the conditions" which you suggest was slowing down to take into account of the potentially increased stopping distances that are infinitely variable. Quite sensible I think we'd all agree, and in line with the Highway Code that we all drive (I'm sure) in accordance with.
Now that you have fitted winters, and your good lady now feels "safe", will she no longer drive to the conditions (slowly, as you put it) or as normal that she is enjoying the much higher winter performance the new tyres afford?
Again, not criticising, I'm just interested in her perception of what is happening.
But one thing you've said isinteresting.
While on summer tyres your missus "drove to the conditions" which you suggest was slowing down to take into account of the potentially increased stopping distances that are infinitely variable. Quite sensible I think we'd all agree, and in line with the Highway Code that we all drive (I'm sure) in accordance with.
Now that you have fitted winters, and your good lady now feels "safe", will she no longer drive to the conditions (slowly, as you put it) or as normal that she is enjoying the much higher winter performance the new tyres afford?
Again, not criticising, I'm just interested in her perception of what is happening.
So now the thin justifications for winters covers blaming the wife's poor driving, and 'a car went backwards a little bit'. Because cars never roll backwards in normal conditions! I think you guys attract derision because of your flimsy never-ending excuses for using winters. Just to counter some of your thin arguments - I was sledging yesterday in the Peak District. Impacted snow/ice all the way to the top of a hill at Flash (the highest village in England). An easy foot of snow at the top. Lots of different vehicles on the road at the top, even taxis dropping people off. Not one person got stuck. Not one. Driving in snow is a skill which people should learn instead of driving beyond their skills and just fitting winters.
popeyewhite said:
So now the thin justifications for winters covers blaming the wife's poor driving, and 'a car went backwards a little bit'. Because cars never roll backwards in normal conditions! I think you guys attract derision because of your flimsy never-ending excuses for using winters. Just to counter some of your thin arguments - I was sledging yesterday in the Peak District. Impacted snow/ice all the way to the top of a hill at Flash (the highest village in England). An easy foot of snow at the top. Lots of different vehicles on the road at the top, even taxis dropping people off. Not one person got stuck. Not one. Driving in snow is a skill which people should learn instead of driving beyond their skills and just fitting winters.
Sorry I thought it was clear. Went backwards while wheel spinning and unable to make forwards progress.Fitting winters is about making your life easier. You don't have to, you can choose to be the guy called out to rescue the partner who's struggling to drive in the snow, or the guy wondering why he can't move forwards on a gentle incline and having several go's at it. Perfectly valid choices.
I choose to fit winters and know that I've improved my chances of staying home in the warm, with the OH being able to get around easier, and not having to baby the throttle and clutch etc just to get moving and tiny amount, then followed by constantly trying to decide if the surface conditions and my speed are appropriate.
Live a little. Widen your window of grip. Improve your life a teeny bit. Or not. You're free to decide.
Munter said:
I choose to fit winters and know that I've improved my chances of staying home in the warm, with the OH being able to get around easier, and not having to baby the throttle and clutch etc just to get moving and tiny amount, then followed by constantly trying to decide if the surface conditions and my speed are appropriate.
.
Are you suggesting that by fitting winters, you no longer assess if the surface conditions and your speed are appropriate?.
f1nn said:
Munter said:
I choose to fit winters and know that I've improved my chances of staying home in the warm, with the OH being able to get around easier, and not having to baby the throttle and clutch etc just to get moving and tiny amount, then followed by constantly trying to decide if the surface conditions and my speed are appropriate.
.
Are you suggesting that by fitting winters, you no longer assess if the surface conditions and your speed are appropriate?.
On a dry sunny day in a 40 limit on a gentle incline I might spend 1% of my time doing that. On summers in snow I might spend 99% doing that. On winters it'd be in between, but far closer to the former. That's the point. It makes driving easier. Which when one want's to get from AtoB is generally a good thing.
swerni said:
Cost neutral, how do you work that out?
if you feel incapable of driving on the roads without them ( unlike the majority of drivers on the UK roads) you feel free and waste your cash on them
What ever makes you happy poppet
Cheers Sweetie.if you feel incapable of driving on the roads without them ( unlike the majority of drivers on the UK roads) you feel free and waste your cash on them
What ever makes you happy poppet
Simple : buy second hand OE wheels for the car (the winter size is usually very cheap as people "upgrade" for bigger wheels) in summer and fit brand new winters. Sell the lot as an off the shelf solution when you sell the car and yield £50 deprecation/year at worst. Works for me as I don't keep my car for long and I even made a net profit out of the 125i's winter wheels. Paid £200 for almost new 17' official winter wheels for the M135i and put new Nokian D4 at £69 each. I am confident they will be worth £650 next winter.
I am sure this is easy to grasp, even for your average winter tyre trolling weirdo. If not, even at £500, surely it doesn't exactly break the bank ?
I put "Drive to the Conditions" in inverted commas because I was being sarcastic as she is not a Driving God(dess), she would slow down a bit, but that is all, all the other "tricks" Gods employ, like using a lower gear, cadence braking, a dab-of-oppo are lost on her, so in effect, she doesn't and isn't. The winter tyres give her the edge more so if someone else does something and she needs to stop suddenly.
Unfortunately, when Driving to the Conditions" one of the things to consider is to leave a bigger gap, which people take as an invitation to dive into. One of the things that worries me is of people running into the back of her, as she stops in a shorter distance than most (unless they were driving to the conditions too, which unfortunately most do not!)
I think someone suggested a Winter Tyres sticker for the rear window a couple of years back to warn the following car you can stop quicker than they can...
No offense taken, and I have been following the Winter Tyres thread for long enough that after 6 years I know very well that a dip of a toe in this forum thread, probably more than most, results in one having to justify oneself.
In all seriousness, as most people keep saying, it's a personal choice, and I prefer to.
Unfortunately, when Driving to the Conditions" one of the things to consider is to leave a bigger gap, which people take as an invitation to dive into. One of the things that worries me is of people running into the back of her, as she stops in a shorter distance than most (unless they were driving to the conditions too, which unfortunately most do not!)
I think someone suggested a Winter Tyres sticker for the rear window a couple of years back to warn the following car you can stop quicker than they can...
No offense taken, and I have been following the Winter Tyres thread for long enough that after 6 years I know very well that a dip of a toe in this forum thread, probably more than most, results in one having to justify oneself.
In all seriousness, as most people keep saying, it's a personal choice, and I prefer to.
f1nn said:
This isn't a slight on you at a all, and for other people's benefit I'm not criticising your choice or in any way suggesting you should not fit winters tyres in any way.
But one thing you've said isinteresting.
While on summer tyres your missus "drove to the conditions" which you suggest was slowing down to take into account of the potentially increased stopping distances that are infinitely variable. Quite sensible I think we'd all agree, and in line with the Highway Code that we all drive (I'm sure) in accordance with.
Now that you have fitted winters, and your good lady now feels "safe", will she no longer drive to the conditions (slowly, as you put it) or as normal that she is enjoying the much higher winter performance the new tyres afford?
Again, not criticising, I'm just interested in her perception of what is happening.
But one thing you've said isinteresting.
While on summer tyres your missus "drove to the conditions" which you suggest was slowing down to take into account of the potentially increased stopping distances that are infinitely variable. Quite sensible I think we'd all agree, and in line with the Highway Code that we all drive (I'm sure) in accordance with.
Now that you have fitted winters, and your good lady now feels "safe", will she no longer drive to the conditions (slowly, as you put it) or as normal that she is enjoying the much higher winter performance the new tyres afford?
Again, not criticising, I'm just interested in her perception of what is happening.
f1nn said:
Munter said:
I choose to fit winters and know that I've improved my chances of staying home in the warm, with the OH being able to get around easier, and not having to baby the throttle and clutch etc just to get moving and tiny amount, then followed by constantly trying to decide if the surface conditions and my speed are appropriate.
.
Are you suggesting that by fitting winters, you no longer assess if the surface conditions and your speed are appropriate?.
DJdro said:
No, you still drive to the conditions, but with a bigger safety margin. Winter tyres aren't Magic, they just give you a bigger window of reaction, should you need it.
Exactly.That's what I had explained but was predictably taken out of context by our favourite trolling weirdo. So for his benefit:
nickfrog said:
in properly adverse conditions rather than uneventful ones where no emergency braking or avoidance manoeuvres were called for.
f1nn said:
Please can people note that I am reply to a question here, and not criticising people for their choices to use winter tyres as some posters feel I am doing.
How did you find their performance in the snow compared to summer tyres?
In the limited amount of snow that I had to drive over, but to be fair, this was at very low speed they seemed fine. In all of the other winter conditions I drove through at or around the speed limit I was so far within both the tyres and the cars capabilities that I couldn't tell any tangible benefit. In the same manner, my journey back tin the UK was broadly similar but on summers. At or around the speed limit, relatively new, well maintained, premium summer tyres coped so well, and I was so far within the limits of both the tyres and the car, that I can't see what benefit winter tyres would have offered me. I certainly would have accelerated no faster, braked any harsher, drove any quicker if I had winter tyres on.
In the interest of fairness. The tyres I use are Pirelli Pzeros, which are not the greatest summer tyre available. if swapped to something like a Michelin Pilot Super sport for example, I am sure they would offer greater warm weather grip. Grip, that driving on the road at or around the speed limit, I would never exploit, at least not safely, nor need.
May I ask why you use Pirelli Pzeros instead of a cheaper alternative like Linglongs as you are never going to get anywhere near the limits of the Pirelli tyres under normal driving?How did you find their performance in the snow compared to summer tyres?
In the limited amount of snow that I had to drive over, but to be fair, this was at very low speed they seemed fine. In all of the other winter conditions I drove through at or around the speed limit I was so far within both the tyres and the cars capabilities that I couldn't tell any tangible benefit. In the same manner, my journey back tin the UK was broadly similar but on summers. At or around the speed limit, relatively new, well maintained, premium summer tyres coped so well, and I was so far within the limits of both the tyres and the car, that I can't see what benefit winter tyres would have offered me. I certainly would have accelerated no faster, braked any harsher, drove any quicker if I had winter tyres on.
In the interest of fairness. The tyres I use are Pirelli Pzeros, which are not the greatest summer tyre available. if swapped to something like a Michelin Pilot Super sport for example, I am sure they would offer greater warm weather grip. Grip, that driving on the road at or around the speed limit, I would never exploit, at least not safely, nor need.
nickfrog said:
DJdro said:
No, you still drive to the conditions, but with a bigger safety margin. Winter tyres aren't Magic, they just give you a bigger window of reaction, should you need it.
Exactly.That's what I had explained but was predictably taken out of context by our favourite trolling weirdo. So for his benefit:
nickfrog said:
in properly adverse conditions rather than uneventful ones where no emergency braking or avoidance manoeuvres were called for.
DJdro, I agree with you largely. I was responding to a previous poster, a winter tyre user who, very clearly, says he pays less attention to the vehicles speed and conditions since he has fitted winter tyres. Now this seems strange to me, you, and probably Nickfrog depending on how he can fit weirdo and troll into the post, but hey that's up to the poster.
Nickfrog, so in properly adverse conditions there may be a benefit, but otherwise I wouldn't see much of a benefit of using winters, is that what you are saying?
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