yellow stuff brake pads

[ROOODBOY]

I don't think you can blame the pads for cracked discs.

Get some decent new discs!

[chevy-stu]

ROOODBOY said:

I don't think you can blame the pads for cracked discs.

Get some decent new discs!

I'd also assume the discs are the issue, not the pads..... Only discs I've ever had micro cracks on were cheap unbranded drilled ones after a few track days..

[ROOODBOY]

Yeah, discs do vary quite a lot in the quality of material used and their carbon content.
On a high performance car or a car which is used hard regularly and with tasty pads I would spend a bit extra on decent quality discs every time.

[PhillipM]

I have to say I was getting on really well with the Bluestuff NDX, until I went a bit too far the other week and fried them - the pads came back and still work fine, but the discs are covered in deposits and vibrate my fillings out when they're warm now

Off to the engineers for grinding flat required I think, unless I'm lucky and they'll clean up with a harder brake pad.

[GC8]

Busa_Rush said:

V8mate said:

Late last year I read a forum response (not PH) from the 'boss' of EBC where he threw a massive hissy fit at forum members for berating the quality of his products based upon historic experiences.

I found an e-mail in my spam mail folder (best place for it) sent via PH, threatening that if I didn't stop telling people how bad my experience of EBC pads was then he would force PH to tell him who I was and then he would take me to court ! I laughed but didn't realise he'd done it to other people too. What an idiot !

So for the record, in my experience (very similar to V8Mate), on my cars, EBC pads are about the worst available and I'd never put anything from EBC on my cars of bikes again.

I feel left out, having always told people on forums to avoid EBC like the plague. Of course, the plague hasnt ever nearly killed me, unlike sh*te EBC pads. Theyre rubbish and you couldnt give them to me.

[V8mate]

PhillipM said:

I have to say I was getting on really well with the Bluestuff NDX, until I went a bit too far the other week and fried them - the pads came back and still work fine, but the discs are covered in deposits and vibrate my fillings out when they're warm now

Off to the engineers for grinding flat required I think, unless I'm lucky and they'll clean up with a harder brake pad.

Out of interest, what make/spec are the discs?

[ukkid35]

Andy Freeman said:

UKKid35 , what car do you drive please????

928 S4 Manual road car, YellowStuff at the front, bought but not yet fitted for the rear (bog standard Mintex currently).

Since my original posting I did a track day at Mallory Park with no brake judder issues at all, but it was fairly damp.

[RobCrezz]

chevy-stu said:

I'd also assume the discs are the issue, not the pads..... Only discs I've ever had micro cracks on were cheap unbranded drilled ones after a few track days..

Yeah, avoid cheap drilled discs. Decent disc will either use grooves rather than drilled holes (as they may crack after repeated heat cycling). Some cars in motorsport will use drilled discs as they can reduce unsprung weight and help reduce heat, but they wont need to be used after many heat cycles so its not an issue.

[Mr2Mike]

GC8 said:

I feel left out, having always told people on forums to avoid EBC like the plague. Of course, the plague hasnt ever nearly killed me, unlike sh*te EBC pads. Theyre rubbish and you couldnt give them to me.

Do you believe it's impossible for a product to improve with continued development then? Can you guarantee the pads you allegedly had a bad experience with are exactly the same as the ones now sold by EBC?

[PhillipM]

V8mate said:

Out of interest, what make/spec are the discs?

They're ductile iron discs, made from some SBS blank castings.

[windy1]

Mr2Mike said:

windy1 said:

This is what really scares me about EBC brakes. It's not just the pads that are the problem, its the interaction with the disc that they just don't understand.
Those pictures of your cracked discs just illustrate it perfectly.
Pagid RS14's, yes expensive, but you won't be buying new discs for a very long time, even low quality discs at that.

Please explain why you believe EBC pads cause disc cracking more than other brands. A proper explanation, not wishy washy hand waving.

It is to do with the temperature and in my experience EBC products make the disc a lot hotter than any other pads types I've tried over the years (Hawk, Willwood, Mintex, Pagid, Ferodo to name but a few). I've had discs blueing up on the road (YES ON THE ROAD) with greenstuffs fitted. I can understand you might generate quite a lot more heat on a track, but on the road with what they call fast road pad - ridiculous. The rate at which they generate heat is also important. The more quickly there is a heat differential between disc surface and the bulk of the disc when you apply the brake from cold creates a thermal shock effect. Imagine pouring boiling hot water into a glass who's exterior surface is immersed in a bath of ice and you'll get the idea of what is happening.

Remember the metal matrix Lanxide that Lotus used on the first Elises? They could achieve a very efficient performance braking system which was essentially a disc made from aluminium and a pad that deposited friction material onto the surface of the disc to make it work. Very low temperatures involved - aluminium melts at low temperatures. They obviously understood the interaction between pad and disc. We were also suprised that the discs actually got thicker as the pads wore. I'd never seen that before.
Brilliant bit of technology but unfortunately the bean counters eventually said no as it was too expensive.

Edited by windy1 on Tuesday 18th October 18:10

Edited by windy1 on Tuesday 18th October 18:13

[DaveL485]

ROOODBOY said:

I don't think you can blame the pads for cracked discs.

Get some decent new discs!

I should have added- yes cheap discs, but the pads held up well, even after being hot enough to smoke noticeably on several occasions

[John D.]

DaveL485 said:

ROOODBOY said:

I don't think you can blame the pads for cracked discs.

Get some decent new discs!

I should have added- yes cheap discs, but the pads held up well, even after being hot enough to smoke noticeably on several occasions

Your previous post seemed to imply it was bad that the Greenstuff cracked the discs. Yet you actually think this was a good thing?

I'm confused why you posted pics of cheap cracked discs at all really. Tells us little about the pads.

[windy1]

I've £70 a pair "cheap" discs on my rally car but have spent £175 on some Pagid RS15 pads
This is the second set of pads on these discs now & they are not cracked, warped or worn even after lots of abuse.

Edited by windy1 on Tuesday 18th October 19:38

[DaveL485]

John D. said:

DaveL485 said:

ROOODBOY said:

I don't think you can blame the pads for cracked discs.

Get some decent new discs!

I should have added- yes cheap discs, but the pads held up well, even after being hot enough to smoke noticeably on several occasions

Your previous post seemed to imply it was bad that the Greenstuff cracked the discs. Yet you actually think this was a good thing?

I'm confused why you posted pics of cheap cracked discs at all really. Tells us little about the pads.

Yes I do seem to have managed to not post about the pads somehow. Fail!

Ive used Green Stuff for the last few years, because they work well for me. It takes an extended toe-heavy session with high speed involved to get fade....if i'm on tight roads I dont have a problem but when i'm scrubbing off 40 or 50mph from higher speed they do get a bit hot and fade. It's not a cliff though and I do get warning enough to back off.

I have not had any of the material fall away, or and pad separate from the backing, they have always fitted no issues and although the green doesnt last the life of the pad- who cares?

Until I experience otherwise, I am a repeat customer for EBC. The Yellow stuff should be interesting when I fit the new brakes!

[sydown]

I have just had my first experience of yellowstuffs on the track on the rear of my CSL. I'm running RS-29's on the front.
2 days at Donington driving 20mins out of the hour, so proabably 6 / 7 sessions a visit and they have disapeared!!! (the calipers were refurbed with new pistons and seals prior to fitting the pads so they are not sticking / faulty)
Seemed to work well enough but I expected more than 300 odd miles out of them on the back, will buy RS-29's next time as the fronts are hardly worn after 3 trackdays!!

The yellowstuff seem to be false economy for track work.

[motco]

Has the friction material come adrift from the metal, or can you be sure it's worn down? There have been instances in brake pads where the bond between a pad material and the carrier plate has failed.

[parapaul]

sydown said:

I have just had my first experience of yellowstuffs on the track on the rear of my CSL. I'm running RS-29's on the front.
2 days at Donington driving 20mins out of the hour, so proabably 6 / 7 sessions a visit and they have disapeared!!! (the calipers were refurbed with new pistons and seals prior to fitting the pads so they are not sticking / faulty)
Seemed to work well enough but I expected more than 300 odd miles out of them on the back, will buy RS-29's next time as the fronts are hardly worn after 3 trackdays!!

The yellowstuff seem to be false economy for track work.

YellowStuff aren't designed for track work. Pretty sure it says so on their website and on the box. Shame you had a bad experience, but I suspect if you'd used the new BlueStuff you'd have had a different view.

I've had my Yellows fitted for about 6 months now, and can't fault them.

[Mr2Mike]

windy1 said:

It is to do with the temperature and in my experience EBC products make the disc a lot hotter than any other pads types I've tried over the years (Hawk, Willwood, Mintex, Pagid, Ferodo to name but a few). I've had discs blueing up on the road (YES ON THE ROAD) with greenstuffs fitted. I can understand you might generate quite a lot more heat on a track, but on the road with what they call fast road pad - ridiculous. The rate at which they generate heat is also important

I know this is a two year old post, but I've only just seen it. The above implies EBC pads violate the laws of physics. Brakes convert kinetic energy into heat energy, given the same loss of kinetic energy the same amount of heat will be generated and pad material simply can not influence this.

[George111]

Mr2Mike said:

windy1 said:

It is to do with the temperature and in my experience EBC products make the disc a lot hotter than any other pads types I've tried over the years (Hawk, Willwood, Mintex, Pagid, Ferodo to name but a few). I've had discs blueing up on the road (YES ON THE ROAD) with greenstuffs fitted. I can understand you might generate quite a lot more heat on a track, but on the road with what they call fast road pad - ridiculous. The rate at which they generate heat is also important

I know this is a two year old post, but I've only just seen it. The above implies EBC pads violate the laws of physics. Brakes convert kinetic energy into heat energy, given the same loss of kinetic energy the same amount of heat will be generated and pad material simply can not influence this.

Different pad compounds have different coefficients of friction and differing resistance to heat dissipation as well as different abilities to withstand heat so I know what windy1 is referring to, even if we can't express it in a scientifically correct way.

EBC have great marketing and distribution but a rotten product, I'd never use their products on either bike or car again based on my previous experience.