Why dont we change between Winter and summer tyres in the UK
Discussion
nickfrog said:
If ESP (other stability systems are available) has triggered then grip limits have already been breached on 1 axle, by definition. And if both axles run out of friction, ESP can't do anything.
It'll be working to catch it before you (OK, perhaps not you, but most other drivers) even realise, or have had chance to react. Obviously it's not 100% infallible, but it's a bit weird when you try and provoke the car and nothing happens.Mercedes caused a lot angst in the tyre industry when they said their ESP is so good that if you're changing a pair of tyres then put the new ones on the front.
B'stard Child said:
117 months..
117 months...
117 months....
And he asks this now after how many million winter tyres threads - some of which have run for more than a winter - some have run for years
Shakes head
Never thought about it until now. Been living in abu dhabi for the last 8 years just moving home117 months...
117 months....
And he asks this now after how many million winter tyres threads - some of which have run for more than a winter - some have run for years
Shakes head
The Mad Monk said:
only1ian said:
I want to open up a debate and id be interested to know if anyone can explain why we in the UK dont follow the continentals (tyre pun intended) and have 2 sets of tyres one for summer and one for winter driving. I just married a German and they think us Brits are backwards for not doing this.... After hearing their arguments im kind of in agreement with them:
1) every time it snows the country shuts down and icy roads become skid pans, winter tyres would make safer for driving and keep the country moving. Its the law in most of Europe to have the right tyres for the conditions on your car,
2) it saves money. Summer tyres wear quickly in winter and winter in summer. So you get both optimum performance and less wear.
3) ive owned afew japanese cars in my time and all of them suffered from alloy corrosion as a result of salt on our roads. If you had a winter set on steel rims i could have saved my alloys another £500 ever 3 year's
Also i just found out that bmw offer an £80 a year tyre storage service so even those without storage space could do this.
Therefore why the hell arent we all doing this?
Inaccurate.1) every time it snows the country shuts down and icy roads become skid pans, winter tyres would make safer for driving and keep the country moving. Its the law in most of Europe to have the right tyres for the conditions on your car,
2) it saves money. Summer tyres wear quickly in winter and winter in summer. So you get both optimum performance and less wear.
3) ive owned afew japanese cars in my time and all of them suffered from alloy corrosion as a result of salt on our roads. If you had a winter set on steel rims i could have saved my alloys another £500 ever 3 year's
Also i just found out that bmw offer an £80 a year tyre storage service so even those without storage space could do this.
Therefore why the hell arent we all doing this?
Unnecessary.
Irrelevant.
Based on a false premise.
But, apart from that.....
Given that most of the country will replace their new cars tyres that are likely Continentals, Pirelli or Goodyears with the cheapest crap possible and not care about it. On the thinking a tyre is a tyre, when clearly it isn't. Otherwise BMW would fit Davanti or Barum, or Linglong from the factory.
How can you get them to get their head around changing normal tyres for winter tyres? Try and explain that to the great unwashed.
For most of the country, they aren't needed. It rarely snows enough to demand them. Last decent winter was the whiteout of 2010 that shut down the country, winter tyres wouldn't have helped when lorries got stuck and buggered the motorways in my area.
I have all season tyres on my 4x4, more than adequate given Goodyear test them and they have the snowflake symbol as well as M+S on the side.
So. in summary. People won't do it, people don't care, they aren't needed for most of the country.
How can you get them to get their head around changing normal tyres for winter tyres? Try and explain that to the great unwashed.
For most of the country, they aren't needed. It rarely snows enough to demand them. Last decent winter was the whiteout of 2010 that shut down the country, winter tyres wouldn't have helped when lorries got stuck and buggered the motorways in my area.
I have all season tyres on my 4x4, more than adequate given Goodyear test them and they have the snowflake symbol as well as M+S on the side.
So. in summary. People won't do it, people don't care, they aren't needed for most of the country.
To answer the OP: Because we only get about 4 weeks a year of temperatures below 5degrees and summer tyres are fine for the other 48 weeks.
It's an unnecessary expense buying a set of tyres for a months worth of cold and usually no snow at all, especially if you change cars regularly.
The 2 people that I know that bought winter tyres just left them on until they were worn out, so ended up driving on crappy squidgy tyres all year round.
It's an unnecessary expense buying a set of tyres for a months worth of cold and usually no snow at all, especially if you change cars regularly.
The 2 people that I know that bought winter tyres just left them on until they were worn out, so ended up driving on crappy squidgy tyres all year round.
Ahbefive said:
To answer the OP: Because we only get about 4 weeks a year of temperatures below 5degrees
Depends what time of the day you drive. Average min temperature in the UK is below 5C from Nov to April (that's a bit more than 4 weeks), which is admittedly longer than I fit my winters for, but a sweeping statement saying "you don't need them" doesn't correspond to the particular circumstance of some people, including me.Winter tyres represent a very very small financial burden, if any. Takes 45mn twice a year to swap the wheels, which is always a good opportunity to inspect brakes anyway.
Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 15th November 19:22
Personally I think a mass switch to changing tyres every six months would be a bad thing as far as safety is concerned.
The average car in the UK does about 8000 miles a year; the average tyre lasts about 40k miles so gets replaced every five years or so. Move people to using two sets of tyres and that suddenly becomes ten years, which is well past what manufacturers recommend. For the sake of a minuscule improvement in grip when it's cold and dry; and a huge improvement on the two days a year for 80% of the UK population that there is snow on the road... I don't think it's worth it.
I run winter tyres on the family car and I end up scrapping my tyres with ~4mm of tread left because they're old and starting to fail. How many "normal" car owners would do the same if they're perfectly legal? I think I'll be switching to cross-climates next time the summers are up for replacement, which hopefully will provide a best of both worlds.
The average car in the UK does about 8000 miles a year; the average tyre lasts about 40k miles so gets replaced every five years or so. Move people to using two sets of tyres and that suddenly becomes ten years, which is well past what manufacturers recommend. For the sake of a minuscule improvement in grip when it's cold and dry; and a huge improvement on the two days a year for 80% of the UK population that there is snow on the road... I don't think it's worth it.
I run winter tyres on the family car and I end up scrapping my tyres with ~4mm of tread left because they're old and starting to fail. How many "normal" car owners would do the same if they're perfectly legal? I think I'll be switching to cross-climates next time the summers are up for replacement, which hopefully will provide a best of both worlds.
nickfrog said:
Depends what time of the day you drive. Average min temperature in the UK is below 5C from Nov to April,
Geographically maybe? but that is because it is always cold in the Outer Hebrides,Shetland etc. The thing is the majority of the population live in the South and the average temperatures are considerably warmer than that.I disagree that its not a financial burden or indeed an unnecessary hassle. 18inch tyres to wear for a couple of months is probably £600 spent and then they need swapping twice and storing etc. It would possibly make sense if you keep the car for more than 5-10 years (and live up North) but how many people do that?
Edited by Ahbefive on Wednesday 15th November 19:35
nickfrog said:
kambites said:
For the sake of a minuscule improvement in grip when it's cold and dry
It's far from minuscule IME but I appreciate your experience has been different.I currently run Eagle F1 summers and Avon Ice Tourings winters... I tend to leave the summers on until it actually looks like it's going to snow and settle and hence get a hard change over between the two at about zero degrees road temperature and I can barely feel a difference in grip. Now admittedly the Eagle F1s are arguably the best wet/cold weather summer tyre out there and the Avons are mid-range winters, but still the difference is utterly insignificant.
The difference when there's actually snow on the road is obviously enormous.
ETA: I do live on the south coast, so obviously the days when it's solidly below freezing are very limited. For what it's worth I also drive a lot in Bulgaria, and there's no way I'd use summer tyres here in the winter even if it was legal. Past about -10, summer tyres seem to suffer.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 15th November 19:31
kambites said:
What tyres are you running, out of interest?
I am comparing Supersport to Nokian D4s on the (ex) M135i, 7.00am on Surrey Hills b-roads commute : they were a godsend from Nov to March.Now on the Megane it's an unfair comparison as I run semi-slicks, which simply won't switch on when 5 deg on under.
nickfrog said:
It's far from minuscule IME but I appreciate your experience has been different.
Really? If anything I'd say summer tyres I've used have been better than winters when cold and dry. Any hint of frost would change that obviously but that's been across three different cars.Ahbefive said:
nickfrog said:
Depends what time of the day you drive. Average min temperature in the UK is below 5C from Nov to April,
Geographically maybe? but that is because it is always cold in the Outer Hebrides etc. The thing is the majority of the population live in the South and the average temperatures are considerably warmer than that.I disagree that its not a financial burden or indeed an unnecessary hassle. 18inch tyres to wear for a couple of months is probably £600 spent and then they need swapping twice and storing etc. It would possibly make sense if you keep the car for more than 5-10 years (and live up North) but how many people do that?
If you buy OE wheels second hand for very little money from people who "upgrade" (17 is always a good winter size) and fit new winters, you'll probably sell the set after 2 years for what you paid for. How do I know ? I have done it twice.
Storage : £20 for bags and straight into the garage - Hassle ? 45min twice a year.
nickfrog said:
Now on the Megane it's an unfair comparison as I run semi-slicks, which simply won't switch on when 5 deg on under.
Heh, I run AD07s year round on my daily driver... you can switch them on, you just have to put a bit of effort in. 
I have had the odd moment pulling out of the work car-park though...
nickfrog said:
kambites said:
No but most of the population do, which is why it's never been mandated.
Probably but it doesn't mean that they're not useful to some even in the South.Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff