Europa. Mad, bad or dangerous to know?
Discussion
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned what is the Europa's worst feature by far - the gearchange. Being a long rod linkage to the gearbox, right at the back, this varies from fairly horrible to completely obstructive. My mate's S2 was a particularly bad example, but we usually got bored waiting while he tried to find reverse, and set off for the pub without him.
Strangely, this conspiracy of silence seems to have been carried over to the Elise. I have test driven perhaps a dozen Elsies in the last fortnight, new and used, and the gearchange was nasty on every last one of them. I've bought the only one which was even reasonable (best car of those I've driven all round, in fact), but the change still isn't a patch on my Renault Clio 'shopping car', let alone the riflebolt precision of my old '60's Elan. I can't recall a single review of the Elise which was critical of this aspect of the car, though...maybe British journo's don't want to jeopardize Lotus' market by doing the car down?
Strangely, this conspiracy of silence seems to have been carried over to the Elise. I have test driven perhaps a dozen Elsies in the last fortnight, new and used, and the gearchange was nasty on every last one of them. I've bought the only one which was even reasonable (best car of those I've driven all round, in fact), but the change still isn't a patch on my Renault Clio 'shopping car', let alone the riflebolt precision of my old '60's Elan. I can't recall a single review of the Elise which was critical of this aspect of the car, though...maybe British journo's don't want to jeopardize Lotus' market by doing the car down?
The elise gear change gets worse as the rubber bushes at the gearbox end deteriorate with age elise parts have a mod to fix this for about £50. www.eliseparts.com/sports.htm
I have heard/read that the Europa gearchange can be similarly tightened up - Does anybody know if this is correct?
The two things that have given me second thoughts about the Elan M100 is the power steering (as mentioned on this thread) and the gearchange which felt like a stick in a bag of marbles when I tried one.
Do any owners (past or present) have any views on these issues?
The two things that have given me second thoughts about the Elan M100 is the power steering (as mentioned on this thread) and the gearchange which felt like a stick in a bag of marbles when I tried one.
Do any owners (past or present) have any views on these issues?
Yep, the gear change can be a pain in the a**. After all it is a mechanical linkage travelling half the car, snaking around the engine. The Elan is good, since it it connected directly to the tranny.
The gearchange is as good, or bad, as you let it be. If you don't do anything but push harder when it won't go into gear, it might not get any better
. However, if you actually look after it, check the U/Js, bushings and rod ends, or make a couple of simple, cheap, and relatively easy fixes, it can be made to work quite nicely.
Being a purely mechanical linkage, it isn't rocket science do keep up, if it wiggles and it shouldn't, tighten it, if it doesn't wiggle and it should, loosen it.
As an owner, I would say that the Europas biggest failing is one of either: not enough power, or the wiring. Hell, the headlights aren't fused... But, what Lucas era british car has great electrics??
Bob, I don't know anything that I would suggest similar to a Europa, the Elan is great, but a lot more popular (read expensive) and not mid-engined. 914 is mid-engined, but a bit(lots) lardy. Fiat X1/9 is even more unusual than a Europa, heavier, with less power. Newer stuff like Miata (MX-5), MR2, etc, etc... are, well, newer. No real history or uniqueness about them (IMHO).
Good luck
Gary
>> Edited by gary_tholl on Friday 7th November 14:52
The gearchange is as good, or bad, as you let it be. If you don't do anything but push harder when it won't go into gear, it might not get any better
. However, if you actually look after it, check the U/Js, bushings and rod ends, or make a couple of simple, cheap, and relatively easy fixes, it can be made to work quite nicely. Being a purely mechanical linkage, it isn't rocket science do keep up, if it wiggles and it shouldn't, tighten it, if it doesn't wiggle and it should, loosen it.
As an owner, I would say that the Europas biggest failing is one of either: not enough power, or the wiring. Hell, the headlights aren't fused... But, what Lucas era british car has great electrics??
Bob, I don't know anything that I would suggest similar to a Europa, the Elan is great, but a lot more popular (read expensive) and not mid-engined. 914 is mid-engined, but a bit(lots) lardy. Fiat X1/9 is even more unusual than a Europa, heavier, with less power. Newer stuff like Miata (MX-5), MR2, etc, etc... are, well, newer. No real history or uniqueness about them (IMHO).
Good luck
Gary
>> Edited by gary_tholl on Friday 7th November 14:52
The Europa was always a favorite of mine yet the rarity here in the states made them a pipe dream for the most part.
I remember dreaming of the Black John Player special? if that was correct ..
Nice twin cam 2 liter..with updated gearbox.. which I believe was limited in its capacity for upgraded power..?
How about the new Elise coming to the states..I read that its got a Toyota Celica warmed over for 190 hp and the toyota six speed gearbox...
39 grand might be well spent on this little road rocket as daily transportation...rather than a Europa as what sounds like a second car?
Just a thought..
BTW..maybe spending more for a mint Europa is money well spent? vs. haggling for a few dollars off on the price?
I remember dreaming of the Black John Player special? if that was correct ..
Nice twin cam 2 liter..with updated gearbox.. which I believe was limited in its capacity for upgraded power..?
How about the new Elise coming to the states..I read that its got a Toyota Celica warmed over for 190 hp and the toyota six speed gearbox...
39 grand might be well spent on this little road rocket as daily transportation...rather than a Europa as what sounds like a second car?
Just a thought..
BTW..maybe spending more for a mint Europa is money well spent? vs. haggling for a few dollars off on the price?
Thanks for the suggestions JBZ06 but a new (or even secondhand) Elise and a Lancia Stratos (even a kit car copy) really aren't in the same price bracket as a Europa.
I don't intend to sell my Jag to finance it - I've already done too many winters in old TVRs and I refuse to give up my heated seats!
Since it is only a play-thing I'm going to have to stick to my budget.
I don't intend to sell my Jag to finance it - I've already done too many winters in old TVRs and I refuse to give up my heated seats!
Since it is only a play-thing I'm going to have to stick to my budget.
JBZ06 said:
The Europa was always a favorite of mine yet the rarity here in the states made them a pipe dream for the most part.
I remember dreaming of the Black John Player special? if that was correct ..
Actually, there are more around than you ever see. There's always one or two on Ebay, and if you go to the Europa yahoo group, you can usually find a couple more for sale. The JPS are harder to find, but paint/pin stripes will make a twin cam look the same.
Gary
I owned a lotus europa twin cam special in 1973. It was carnival red with gold pinstripes. Cannot remember the reg number now. I often wonder where it ended up! my recollections of it are as follows.Direct steering, Very fast, brilliant cornering, great noise.Negative points,the clutch was either in or out no inbetween dreadful trying to do 3 point turn, when i polished it the duster ended up red, the gear linkage kept dropping on the road and when taking off over a humped back bridge you tended to do a 360 spin when landing. Other then that it was a great car
bobfrance said:
It sounds like just the sort of thing I'm after. Great feedback & handling, but room for some (fairly cheap) improvement/modernisation.
Now If I could just find one!
Bob,
Check out these links:
www.banks-europa.co.uk/pinboard/
http://212.53.73.128/kelvedonlotus/stock.html
There is usually a couple there. Also, join the yahoo groups Europa list, someone there might know of one.
Good luck,
Gary
I've owned two JPS Specials with a gap of about 18 years between them. Excellent cars and all the comments are spot on especially they don't like being neglected. Lack of use and the work required to get it going prompted the sale of the second one - it sat outside. (TVR in the garage!)
The first Europa caught fire despite Lotus specialist maintenance.
There is a project Special right now on AutoTrader website for £4550 at www.havencars.co.uk/_havencars.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/lotus.herts/forsale.htm
or www.findit.co.uk for adverts.
Mark
The first Europa caught fire despite Lotus specialist maintenance.
There is a project Special right now on AutoTrader website for £4550 at www.havencars.co.uk/_havencars.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/lotus.herts/forsale.htm
or www.findit.co.uk for adverts.
Mark
Such temptation Mark!
I really wanted the one I mentioned earlier, but nothing has been forthcoming of late.
So in the interim I've spent my money (not all of it of course) upon buying a cottage in Dawlish, Devon which I intend to rent out to holiday-makers.
So if anyone wants a very reasonably priced cottage in Dawlish for a week or two (with parking
) get in touch via my profile. 
Go on! I need the money to buy cars again in the summer!
Oh and once again, I must thank everybody for their great advice. Don't worry it hasn't been wasted. I'm still just as serious about getting one as I ever was and have very little will power when presented with a bargain!
Watch this space...
>> Edited by bobfrance on Saturday 20th December 17:45
>> Edited by bobfrance on Saturday 20th December 17:46
I really wanted the one I mentioned earlier, but nothing has been forthcoming of late.
So in the interim I've spent my money (not all of it of course
) upon buying a cottage in Dawlish, Devon which I intend to rent out to holiday-makers. So if anyone wants a very reasonably priced cottage in Dawlish for a week or two (with parking
) get in touch via my profile. Go on! I need the money to buy cars again in the summer!
Oh and once again, I must thank everybody for their great advice. Don't worry it hasn't been wasted. I'm still just as serious about getting one as I ever was and have very little will power when presented with a bargain!
Watch this space...
>> Edited by bobfrance on Saturday 20th December 17:45
>> Edited by bobfrance on Saturday 20th December 17:46
Just to shed some light on the Europa at Le Mans that Mungo mentioned
Yes it's a Banks car in Gold Leaf colours running a 2.0 16v Vauxhall engine @ 200hp and yes it does handle well, which is a good job as the owner thinks he's Gilles Villeneuve !
It hit about 145mph (GPS verified) on the way down to Le Mans last year.
If you want to understand a bit more about the roundabout antics there some stills and in-car video footage on the Crawley Brothers website. (sorry don't know the exact url)
Yes it's a Banks car in Gold Leaf colours running a 2.0 16v Vauxhall engine @ 200hp and yes it does handle well, which is a good job as the owner thinks he's Gilles Villeneuve !
It hit about 145mph (GPS verified) on the way down to Le Mans last year.
If you want to understand a bit more about the roundabout antics there some stills and in-car video footage on the Crawley Brothers website. (sorry don't know the exact url)
clanger said:
Go for a twin cam engine model 0-60 7 secs - the renault engine is a bit on the sluggish side and the S1 and S2 imho do not look as good. A JPS liveried Europa Special still cuts the mustard with any modern sportscar.
I've always fancied a Europa, but after trying one a few years back I realised that you need to be the correct size to drive one comfortably. I'm 6ft but IMHO I think you really need to be under 5ft 10in.
I noticed a Big difference in price between the Twink and the Renault engined versions, and worked out that for less money I could buy an S2 (renault one) fit a 5 speed box and have the engine tuned to Renault Alpine A110 1600S/R12 Gordini spec (145+BHP). Also the Renault engine is Lighter (being Ally).
Having said that, a modern motor would probably give better power and be lighter still, even if it was less 'fiddle-able' with all the electronics and injection.
I remember that Spyder engineering did a number of suspension tweeks which improved the grip and life-span of the driveshafts considerably.
Lots of investigation sound like a good idea.
In the unlikely event you go for the renault version, I can give you some tuning contacts.
Good Luck.
Don't laugh, but if you are looking for a cheap toy get a 205 Gti in either 1.6 or 1.9 form. The levels of grip and especially feedback have to be experienced to be believed. The perfect antidote to driving an anaesthetised modern car with very little feedback.
You can pick one up for very little money, about £500 and it will be relatively reliable.
You can pick one up for very little money, about £500 and it will be relatively reliable.
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