1969 Maserati Ghibli - The Resurection
Discussion
Mark where are you?Martin 480 Turbo said:
Whow, simply Whow. What a mahooosive project you took on there. (and caried through!)
As I am lying ill with the flu at the moment I had the time to read most of this...
1. To be a little constructive: Concerning that bubbling top coat. Get a paintshop expert there
to assess the situation. There must be a fellow Maserati nerd, who is as good with colors and paint as
you are with panels and the wood hammer. On my monitor it makes me think, that indeed moisture was trapped
between the coats. Getting it out in an unheated garage in January seems questionable. So it might be time
for you to trade a little of your panel beating against some paint expertise.
2. Color decision:
I do salute you for not spraying it "resale red, but darker" and for trying to get as close as possible to the original. Sadly solvent based colors are widely banned now, so a recreation of the original would always leave something to be desired. Using the formula for a water based Fiat color was a sensible option.
Why nobody was able to help you with a formula for that verde bosco is a little bit of an enigma to me.
15 years ago I used to work for the mother company of Spies Hecker,and I am positively certain, that we had the color formulas for 70ies Maseratis in written spec sheets according to the old color charts.
I do remember though, that those were mostly shades of blue and brown.
Todays online Data Base doesn't reveal anything about the green colors you were looking for, which either means there was no information on them or it wasn't already entered online due to no demand.
Standox and Spies do have a strong customer support for the classic car scene concerning the transformation of old color formulas into nowadays water based coats. Unfortunately many sales agents are a little reluctant using it, as they see prepping the masses of silver and black lease cars as their business.
Helping a guy to spray his Maserati in his garage is not reflected in their business model.
If anyone needs some more info on Standox classix and experts who can help start here:
http://52.124.1.112/portal/en?page=4.9.1_Services_...
or: www.standox.com -> classic cars
But with the period Fiat color you are reasonably close and if it can stay it will be the best solution, anyway.
3. The depth ot the project.
Whow. When looking at that first picture of the car I was well aware, that there was a lot of bondo under
the waistline. But even as a trained industrial designer, who thinks he has an eye for panel transitions I didn't suspect it to be THAT bad. How on earth do you get so much of this stuff sticking together and forming a halfway coherent shape? Using flat panels for the doors and bondoing them up to the curve is a strike of a genious in itself.
I am deeply impressed with your resurrection of the shell. Most restaurations of those cars are nowadays
done by professionals, who farm out the hard labour to Tijuana or Poland within a strict budget. Nevertheless the cars get auctioned off as class 1 jobs. I somehow doubt those to be as thoroughly done behind the sheet metal as your car. A true labour of love.
4. 70ies Maserati Quality
When I was in my 20ies I ran a hot Alfasud Sprint and sometimes dreamed it to be a Maserati of the same vintage (and designer). On one of my trips I passed a small Maserati restauration shop, that I had not clue about before, and came to a screaching halt. When the owner saw me nosing around he opend up to a very frank conversation. He more or less wented off, that if I had any brains I should take that rusting Alfasud as an experience and stop dreaming about a Maserati. He pointed out, how the coachworks had more or less the same weak points and how both cars were stunning designs, but sadly cobbled together out of less than suitable material qualities. He even told me about him rebuilding the engines with "corvette parts" as the old italian
Borgo? stuff was crapp then and crapp now. Within that hour this old craftsman told me a lesson I never forgot.
These cars were built as fashion items, not as roling sculptures, that should be passed on to the next generation.
Getting one of them back together and onto the next level like you are doing is no trifle and may allow for
some more time than you (and your wife) originaly expected. You have already come a long way and I wish you all the best for the finale.
Get that blistering sorted and the car on the road!
Martin 480 Turbo
P.S.: May I ask you Chad Speed, just out of curiosity, what zodiac sign you were born? I'd
guess you have to bee sagittarius or taurus if your persistance (stubbornness) with turning
that Maserati around is any hint.
Hi MartinAs I am lying ill with the flu at the moment I had the time to read most of this...
1. To be a little constructive: Concerning that bubbling top coat. Get a paintshop expert there
to assess the situation. There must be a fellow Maserati nerd, who is as good with colors and paint as
you are with panels and the wood hammer. On my monitor it makes me think, that indeed moisture was trapped
between the coats. Getting it out in an unheated garage in January seems questionable. So it might be time
for you to trade a little of your panel beating against some paint expertise.
2. Color decision:
I do salute you for not spraying it "resale red, but darker" and for trying to get as close as possible to the original. Sadly solvent based colors are widely banned now, so a recreation of the original would always leave something to be desired. Using the formula for a water based Fiat color was a sensible option.
Why nobody was able to help you with a formula for that verde bosco is a little bit of an enigma to me.
15 years ago I used to work for the mother company of Spies Hecker,and I am positively certain, that we had the color formulas for 70ies Maseratis in written spec sheets according to the old color charts.
I do remember though, that those were mostly shades of blue and brown.
Todays online Data Base doesn't reveal anything about the green colors you were looking for, which either means there was no information on them or it wasn't already entered online due to no demand.
Standox and Spies do have a strong customer support for the classic car scene concerning the transformation of old color formulas into nowadays water based coats. Unfortunately many sales agents are a little reluctant using it, as they see prepping the masses of silver and black lease cars as their business.
Helping a guy to spray his Maserati in his garage is not reflected in their business model.
If anyone needs some more info on Standox classix and experts who can help start here:
http://52.124.1.112/portal/en?page=4.9.1_Services_...
or: www.standox.com -> classic cars
But with the period Fiat color you are reasonably close and if it can stay it will be the best solution, anyway.
3. The depth ot the project.
Whow. When looking at that first picture of the car I was well aware, that there was a lot of bondo under
the waistline. But even as a trained industrial designer, who thinks he has an eye for panel transitions I didn't suspect it to be THAT bad. How on earth do you get so much of this stuff sticking together and forming a halfway coherent shape? Using flat panels for the doors and bondoing them up to the curve is a strike of a genious in itself.
I am deeply impressed with your resurrection of the shell. Most restaurations of those cars are nowadays
done by professionals, who farm out the hard labour to Tijuana or Poland within a strict budget. Nevertheless the cars get auctioned off as class 1 jobs. I somehow doubt those to be as thoroughly done behind the sheet metal as your car. A true labour of love.
4. 70ies Maserati Quality
When I was in my 20ies I ran a hot Alfasud Sprint and sometimes dreamed it to be a Maserati of the same vintage (and designer). On one of my trips I passed a small Maserati restauration shop, that I had not clue about before, and came to a screaching halt. When the owner saw me nosing around he opend up to a very frank conversation. He more or less wented off, that if I had any brains I should take that rusting Alfasud as an experience and stop dreaming about a Maserati. He pointed out, how the coachworks had more or less the same weak points and how both cars were stunning designs, but sadly cobbled together out of less than suitable material qualities. He even told me about him rebuilding the engines with "corvette parts" as the old italian
Borgo? stuff was crapp then and crapp now. Within that hour this old craftsman told me a lesson I never forgot.
These cars were built as fashion items, not as roling sculptures, that should be passed on to the next generation.
Getting one of them back together and onto the next level like you are doing is no trifle and may allow for
some more time than you (and your wife) originaly expected. You have already come a long way and I wish you all the best for the finale.
Get that blistering sorted and the car on the road!
Martin 480 Turbo
P.S.: May I ask you Chad Speed, just out of curiosity, what zodiac sign you were born? I'd
guess you have to bee sagittarius or taurus if your persistance (stubbornness) with turning
that Maserati around is any hint.
The problems with the paint have been identified now and rectification is under-way (though thanks for the pointers);
1 Blistering on the nearside front wing was due to a couple of things, contamination under the primer coat and insufficient drying time between filler/primer coats. Rectification was to strip back and repaint and has been successful.
2 Hazing in the clear coat is air entrapment due to over heavy film thickness and incorrect spraying distance (damn garage is too small), evidenced by it only appearing on vertical panels on the shell. Rectification is to respray base and colour coats when the weather allows.
Happily moisture wasn't the cause of either problem.
I'm still a way off getting the painting finished as its now a waiting game with the weather but rest assured if I'm not happy with it I'll pack it off to a spray booth to get it done by a pro, or do it again myself in a spray booth as I now feel the spraying environment is all that's holding me back - as ever I'll post progress.
Hope you're feeling better and glad the thread brought a bit of light entertainment.
Chadspeed
Cancer BTW
Not much happening of late and likely to be that way for a while. A planned house move this year is mopping up any spare time and I'm currently laid up with a trapped nerve in my lower back, for me its 'no work' = 'no pay' so a double whammy.
A little progress has been made making a new mesh insert for the front grille but I'll leave posting that till its done.
In preparing for the house move its been suggested that I find a new home for 25 years worth of classic car magazines, so if anyone would like them for a small contribution to the 'Resurrection' fund please PM me.
A little progress has been made making a new mesh insert for the front grille but I'll leave posting that till its done.
In preparing for the house move its been suggested that I find a new home for 25 years worth of classic car magazines, so if anyone would like them for a small contribution to the 'Resurrection' fund please PM me.
doogalman said:
it's been very quiet of late. Any updates on the Ghibli??
Very little progress for a number of reasons, one being a trapped nerve, another being the house is up for sale. I've been informed that a dismembered car on the patio wont encourage viewers to make an offer so I've had to be content with clearing 19 years worth of junk in the mean time. I have sold the Tuscan (sadly as that is one awesome car) so when it goes this weekend I'll have the space to re-commence work. The final finishing of the paint will have to wait until we move so I'm going to start making a frame to transport the engine/gearbox in, it will also double up as a test bed so I can run it up before fitting.Best wishes all and pics to follow as usual.
julianghibli said:
And then what happened?
I'm waiting with baited breath because I too have a new project 1968 Ghibli... And need that inspiraton from a Master
Inspiration from a master needed here too, try this http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri00a.htmI'm waiting with baited breath because I too have a new project 1968 Ghibli... And need that inspiraton from a Master
Yours looks nice, any more pics? if you need a rear bumper I have one for restoration http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri00a.htm about half way down the page.
A bit of progress made on the engine frame, will try and post pics this weekend.
Chad
Baron, the back's fine now, thanks for asking, but too many things on the go at the moment to make much progress on the Ghibli. I've turned my attention to the engine again, you'll recall its all rebuilt up to the heads, and started making a temporary home somewhat better than its resting place for the last 8 years.
Wooden trolley borrowed from Danny for a couple of months finally returned after 8 years - thanks Danny!
The roll over frame had done its job so time to recycle
The roll over frame's last job - under body protection going on.
Engine frame fab'ed up, inclined engine mounts make it look a bit weird.
De-greased and ready for paint.
Old tin of Hammerite smooth found and applied then castors fitted.
Engine in its new, I hope not to permanent, home.
It looks rather big but it will allow the dry sump oil tank and radiator to be fitted in exactly the same position as the car for trial running.
Wooden trolley borrowed from Danny for a couple of months finally returned after 8 years - thanks Danny!
The roll over frame had done its job so time to recycle
The roll over frame's last job - under body protection going on.
Engine frame fab'ed up, inclined engine mounts make it look a bit weird.
De-greased and ready for paint.
Old tin of Hammerite smooth found and applied then castors fitted.
Engine in its new, I hope not to permanent, home.
It looks rather big but it will allow the dry sump oil tank and radiator to be fitted in exactly the same position as the car for trial running.
Globs said:
The stand is indeed very sturdy and efficient.
May I ask why you are putting the engine on that, rather than in the car?
I'd like to run the engine before putting it in the car which is still a shell on castor wheels. If I wait to run the engine in the car it could be another 10 years at this rate! Also need to have the engine in something a bit better than the wooden trolley when we move house, don't fancy dropping it.May I ask why you are putting the engine on that, rather than in the car?
julianghibli said:
Hi Chad,
Can I ask how bad your wheels were before you had them repaired?
Julian
Hi Julian Can I ask how bad your wheels were before you had them repaired?
Julian
A few before and after pics of the wheels, as you can see they had suffered general corrosion typical of magnesium alloy castings of the 60/70s.
Thin section in centre erroded
Attempt at repair using normal aluminium filler wire
Damage from crimp on balance weights
Other side of balance weight damage
Balance weight damage on all wheels
Centre lip errosion
Repaired wheel, magnesium alloy welding excellent, painting could be better.
Inside of rim still showing minor pock marks but not visible when on car and entirely servicable
Typical paint problems encountered when painting porous magnesium alloy.The welding was done by Ian Jemison http://www.ianjemison.co.uk/index.html which was excellent but I will re-finish the paint before tyre fitting. Welding and painting was about £125 per wheel a couple of years ago. If I was doing it again I would use Ian to repair the wheels but probably use a different paint furnisher/process.
Hi all
Cant believe its been so long since my last post. I'm making a little progress on the engine and have a question for our Jaguar experts out there, can someone let me know the outside diameter of the tappet shims (shim not bucket) on the 6 cylinder XK engine? Any help would be great as Google has failed me on this occasion.
Ciao
Cant believe its been so long since my last post. I'm making a little progress on the engine and have a question for our Jaguar experts out there, can someone let me know the outside diameter of the tappet shims (shim not bucket) on the 6 cylinder XK engine? Any help would be great as Google has failed me on this occasion.
Ciao
The Surveyor said:
Good to hear things are still moving forward Roger, my Mexico has stalled a little recently due to a wedding (mine!) hence my recent radio silence....
Does this help with the Jag tappet shims (http://georgiajag.com/Documents/Tappets/Tappets.html) or is this as clear as mud! Good luck and post up some pictures of what the engine looks like internally, very interested!
Paul
Thanks PaulDoes this help with the Jag tappet shims (http://georgiajag.com/Documents/Tappets/Tappets.html) or is this as clear as mud! Good luck and post up some pictures of what the engine looks like internally, very interested!
Paul
As it happens I'd already found that website and it proved very useful with regard to the cam buckets but not the shims under the buckets. When I've progressed a bit further I'll post details, some of the engine parts are overpriced and very much of 1960's quality so I've come up with some interesting options.
Congratulations by the way, once you are back on your feet I look forward to progress on the Mexico..
Roger
18 months after starting the process we have finally moved house. During this time posts have been in short supply from me and for that I can only apologise, the PH faithful have spurred me on over the course of this project and kept the candle of enthusiasm burning.
I am fortunate that storage for the car in both the last house and new has been clean and dry. The body shell is more or less as my last posts at the end of 2012, that is painted but not to my satisfaction, I will be re-visiting it at some point! I have not been totally inactive however and will do some catch-up posts in a couple of weeks time when I'am allowed some play time.
Thanks to all for your continued interest.
Chad
I am fortunate that storage for the car in both the last house and new has been clean and dry. The body shell is more or less as my last posts at the end of 2012, that is painted but not to my satisfaction, I will be re-visiting it at some point! I have not been totally inactive however and will do some catch-up posts in a couple of weeks time when I'am allowed some play time.
Thanks to all for your continued interest.
Chad
Mega busy at work next week but then 2 whole weeks off which should allow me to do a few catch up posts. Don't expect too much as progress this year has been woeful but still, a little has been made and the Christmas break seems a good time to draw a line under it and plan the year ahead.
Chad
Chad
Ok so a catch-up of the last year, first up was re-building these beauties, being a mid series Ghibli the Diva is equipped with four Webber 42 DCNF carburettors mounted on Maserati’s own inlet manifold and own linkage.
It was barely possible to open the throttle butterfly’s and they didn’t close by themselves, it was also impossible to operate the cold start device. The red powder coated spacer plates hint at the car’s dubious restoration history.
It was barely possible to open the throttle butterfly’s and they didn’t close by themselves, it was also impossible to operate the cold start device. The red powder coated spacer plates hint at the car’s dubious restoration history.
No major steps forward but progress is progress
Nasty yellow paint and seized bearing on linkage
Sonic bath sure does a good job
New sealed bearings for throttle spindles and linkage
All spindles about 0.005" out and required straightening
Reassembly
No.3 carb with damaged cold start device
Steel bits all nice and shiny
All complete, red spacers retained and hint to the cars dubious past restoration (hidden when filter top installed)
Operation now super smooth, sealed bearings make a huge difference.
More as and when time allows, humbled by the continued interest despite my tardy posting.
Chad
Nasty yellow paint and seized bearing on linkage
Sonic bath sure does a good job
New sealed bearings for throttle spindles and linkage
All spindles about 0.005" out and required straightening
Reassembly
No.3 carb with damaged cold start device
Steel bits all nice and shiny
All complete, red spacers retained and hint to the cars dubious past restoration (hidden when filter top installed)
Operation now super smooth, sealed bearings make a huge difference.
More as and when time allows, humbled by the continued interest despite my tardy posting.
Chad
I can see I was a bit ambiguous when I said 'red spacers retained and hint to the cars dubious past restoration' I was actually referring to the red powder paint used everywhere from the carb spacers to suspension parts, including springs, and even the brake booster canister.
The spacers are a cast aluminium alloy so not really the ideal thermal barrier, my guess is they are nothing more technical than to compensate for different styles of air filter housing. The series 1 Ghibli has a rather nice oval housing made of GRP with the Maserati Trident moulded into the top, series 2 had a generic steel item and outside of the Maserati range who knows what filter arrangements were used. I should say for clarity that the series 1 Ghibli filter housing isn't, that is to say the actual filter element is in another housing located at the front of the right-hand wing.
The spacers are a cast aluminium alloy so not really the ideal thermal barrier, my guess is they are nothing more technical than to compensate for different styles of air filter housing. The series 1 Ghibli has a rather nice oval housing made of GRP with the Maserati Trident moulded into the top, series 2 had a generic steel item and outside of the Maserati range who knows what filter arrangements were used. I should say for clarity that the series 1 Ghibli filter housing isn't, that is to say the actual filter element is in another housing located at the front of the right-hand wing.
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