Classics left to die/rotting pics - Vol 2
Discussion
Yertis said:
I do appreciate the advice 
Then I read your reply to another post about that green one which I hadn't read before I posted and I realised that it was perhaps a daily driver/running resto you were after (which DOES make more sense) and fills me with a tinge of what might have been!
Full restos on these things are for only right for clinically insane millionaires (and if you're one of them, good luck!)
iSore said:
I used to maintain a mid seventies Elite, and what a heap of s
t it was. Some Norfolk farmers trying to build cars from bits of metal, GRP and glue was never going to end well. Inboard rear drums from a 2CV iirc.
Funky design and probably very good 40+ years ago but....shudder......
Oh yes Lotus at their worst. The one I very nearly bought had (as an example of bad workmanship) differnt length exhausts pipes. No idea how?? Still, I stull want one today. More then the latter Excel... t it was. Some Norfolk farmers trying to build cars from bits of metal, GRP and glue was never going to end well. Inboard rear drums from a 2CV iirc. Funky design and probably very good 40+ years ago but....shudder......
uk66fastback said:
Then I read your reply to another post about that green one which I hadn't read before I posted and I realised that it was perhaps a daily driver/running resto you were after (which DOES make more sense) and fills me with a tinge of what might have been!
Full restos on these things are for only right for clinically insane millionaires (and if you're one of them, good luck!)
but I'm not a millionaire.Having read up on these 501> thingies I've become quite interested in them. The design is clever. The engineering is clever, but inevitably compromised. They had weaknesses, some serious. But also considerable strengths, especially from about 1980 onwards when the chassis was galvanised and a decent gearbox installed. I think it would be a good foil to the TR6, which is the era before, and the Quattro, which is the era afterwards. In its own way I think it's quite exotic, the racing pedigree and Chapman's vision. Most people would go for the Esprit, but I like these.
Hugh Jarse said:
basically a four cylinder espada.
bought a book on them, then came to my senses.
That's exactly what I thought, or a Jarama. Lotus just as fast in any sensible context, probably handles better than either (I would guess). Tougher structure and engine.bought a book on them, then came to my senses.
I bought the book too, and came to my senses, but I can feel them deserting me again.
I've had 3 Lotus Elites and an Eclat. One was mint, one I restored, and 2 I gave up on. At one point I owned 20% of the 1982 production quota!!
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
the lousy jag front brakes;
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
the lousy jag front brakes;
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
Loose_Cannon said:
I've had 3 Lotus Elites and an Eclat. One was mint, one I restored, and 2 I gave up on. At one point I owned 20% of the 1982 production quota!!
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
the lousy jag front brakes;
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
the lousy jag front brakes;
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
well the Excel ought to be OK. Anyway, it's a theoretical exercise at the moment.
Yertis said:
Loose_Cannon said:
I've had 3 Lotus Elites and an Eclat. One was mint, one I restored, and 2 I gave up on. At one point I owned 20% of the 1982 production quota!!
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
the lousy jag front brakes;
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
the lousy jag front brakes;
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
well the Excel ought to be OK. Anyway, it's a theoretical exercise at the moment.
uk66fastback said:
Best keep it that way!
Never meet your heroes and all that... You know what the Audi Quattro used to bring to mind? Forest rally stages, the march of technology, and high living in '80s Europe. You know what it brings to mind now? Rusty pipework, botched electronics, and skinned knuckles.
- leaves to visit eBay*
I bought my 1978 Elite in 1992 and it was my daily for the next 7 or 8 years, I did over 70,000 miles in it. With my S2 Esprit and Excel I've done over 200,000 miles in these three cars. I also owned a Europa S2 and Sunbeam Lotus.
They are brilliant cars to drive, usual Lotus handling with massive grip (can get more lateral G than a Europa!), the Maxi gearbox isn't the most durable but has one of the best gearshifts around. Great fun!
Loose_Cannon said:
I've had 3 Lotus Elites and an Eclat. One was mint, one I restored, and 2 I gave up on. At one point I owned 20% of the 1982 production quota!!
They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
Nope, the only mod mine got was a solid state fuel pump. I loved using mine as a daily.
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
Certainly unobtainable as Lotus told the supplier to junk the tooling but it's pressed ally, not sure how it comes off easily when it's rivetted on! It would be nice if it did come off easily, wouldn't get wrecked when you need to change a screen then.
the lousy jag front brakes;
Not sure about Jag, they're three piston Girlings shared with Rover P6 and Scimitar, mine were fine.
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
The self-adjusters in the drums don't work (do they ever?) but there are holes in the drums so you can flick them round to adjust them. The handbrake cable adjustment is awkward but I did mine from below, reach round the diff/prop, it's not like you need to do it often anyway.
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
My daily before the Elite was a '73 Scimitar with the "big-engined Capri" motor. Straight line speed was very similar but factor in the Elite's grip and handling and I doubt the GTE would have stuck with it for long - and they handled better than Capris!
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
No, carbs aren't crap, set up well they work fine, smooth, progressive and reasonably economical. The Elite got high 20s mpg, the Esprit could reach 30 on a run and the Excel even got 33mpg sometimes. Sure the Esprit took some cranking at full throttle to start hot but its engine was stuck up in a small fibreglass box so not surprising! Not sure how yours "blocked up", never had that on any of the nine Weber/Dellorto twin choke carbs I've had....
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
In the 70,000 miles I did in it, I was only stuck at the side of the road a couple of times, an ignition condensor failed and a fuel pump, neither of which are Lotus-specific parts.They are very simple cars, but to make a reliable daily driver, you are talking about a lot of re-engineering. There are some hateful aspects which would grind you every single day;
Nope, the only mod mine got was a solid state fuel pump. I loved using mine as a daily.
the fragile, unobtainable stainless window trim that doesn't like staying on and is destroyed every time you crack the windscreen;
Certainly unobtainable as Lotus told the supplier to junk the tooling but it's pressed ally, not sure how it comes off easily when it's rivetted on! It would be nice if it did come off easily, wouldn't get wrecked when you need to change a screen then.
the lousy jag front brakes;
Not sure about Jag, they're three piston Girlings shared with Rover P6 and Scimitar, mine were fine.
the hateful inboard Capri drums and handbrake you have to cut holes in floor to adjust rather than wrestle a 50kg diff
The self-adjusters in the drums don't work (do they ever?) but there are holes in the drums so you can flick them round to adjust them. The handbrake cable adjustment is awkward but I did mine from below, reach round the diff/prop, it's not like you need to do it often anyway.
they are actually pretty slow, I don't know where Lotus got the 140bhp figure from but a big engined Capri would wipe the floor with it;
My daily before the Elite was a '73 Scimitar with the "big-engined Capri" motor. Straight line speed was very similar but factor in the Elite's grip and handling and I doubt the GTE would have stuck with it for long - and they handled better than Capris!
and *shock horror* carbs are crap no matter what people say, they are always blocking up, no-one knows how to set them up any more, they hate starting from hot and drink like Ollie Reed. Give me an 80s Bosch Jetronic any day.
No, carbs aren't crap, set up well they work fine, smooth, progressive and reasonably economical. The Elite got high 20s mpg, the Esprit could reach 30 on a run and the Excel even got 33mpg sometimes. Sure the Esprit took some cranking at full throttle to start hot but its engine was stuck up in a small fibreglass box so not surprising! Not sure how yours "blocked up", never had that on any of the nine Weber/Dellorto twin choke carbs I've had....
However....I adore Elites really, always have done since the day they were launched, and wish I'd kept my last clunker just as a garden ornament to admire with a G&T on a sunny evening. Oliver Winterbottom did an incredible job of making a 4 seater attractive, a feat even some supercar makers cant do even now.
They are brilliant cars to drive, usual Lotus handling with massive grip (can get more lateral G than a Europa!), the Maxi gearbox isn't the most durable but has one of the best gearshifts around. Great fun!
Near Rochford Essex, pic was 2009 but still there a couple of weeks ago. The yellow on is a 205, A35, Mk1 transit camper, Mini.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5855992,0.721031...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5855992,0.721031...
PomBstard said:
Continuing the Lotus theme - couple spotted in Sydney over a year ago, about 6-7 posts down the page...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Green one still there last week, might have a look next time I'm passing to see what else is there
Well, went past today and the green Excel is still there, parked into a hedge on the pavement. Interior is scrappy, paint is peeling, looks very lost. And yet... Even derelict on the side of the road, it kinda looks good.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Green one still there last week, might have a look next time I'm passing to see what else is there
The white Interceptor is still there too, but that really is a pile of scrap metal that resembles an Interceptor.
Round the corner was an E28 5 series parked under a ramp, next to a few bins - will see what more there is to it next time I pass...
http://www.willship.com.au/instantquote/
What an adventure this could be. If only I had more time...
edit to add, so shipping is about £1800, and I did have the card of a recovery guy in Sydney who tried to help when my Monaro died outside Harrods. I wonder how much the Excel would cost? It should be 'free to good home' in that state.
What an adventure this could be. If only I had more time...
edit to add, so shipping is about £1800, and I did have the card of a recovery guy in Sydney who tried to help when my Monaro died outside Harrods. I wonder how much the Excel would cost? It should be 'free to good home' in that state.
Edited by Yertis on Wednesday 15th February 11:33
Is that £1800 all in - ie loading fees both ends? Then there is the insurance when it's on the water ... So then you have import duty - presume under Bti at 5% (on the total inc shipping. Then removal from the port of entry to your destination ...
Is that £5k (inc purchase price) I see already?
Is that £5k (inc purchase price) I see already?
£1800 is just port to port. Given that I have no experience in this field at all I confidently expect that it would be more like £3000 all in to get it back. Not sure about the import tax situation, given that it's already UK registered? MoT expired April 2010. Can't believe that's seven years ago... 
Then gazillions apparently to get it going and lovely again.
Silly idea. Fun though.
Then gazillions apparently to get it going and lovely again.
Silly idea. Fun though.
Yertis said:
£1800 is just port to port. Given that I have no experience in this field at all I confidently expect that it would be more like £3000 all in to get it back. Not sure about the import tax situation, given that it's already UK registered? MoT expired April 2010. Can't believe that's seven years ago...
Then gazillions apparently to get it going and lovely again.
Silly idea. Fun though.
A small amount of import tax then VAT on everything; purchase, shipping, handling, agents fees etc; if it still belongs to the person who exported it to Oz it might be possible for him to reimport without being subject to VAT, although exceptions like that often have time limits.Then gazillions apparently to get it going and lovely again.
Silly idea. Fun though.
hidetheelephants said:
small amount of import tax then VAT on everything; purchase, shipping, handling, agents fees etc; if it still belongs to the person who exported it to Oz it might be possible for him to reimport without being subject to VAT, although exceptions like that often have time limits.
Isn't the VAT already paid at initial purchase? 
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