1969 Maserati Ghibli - The Resurection
Discussion
dinkel said:
Lovely color this: http://www.autogespot.nl/maserati-ghibli-i/2012/09...
Indeed, lovely. My guess is Celeste Chario 106 A 32Well the painting has certainly brought out a few opinions ranging from 'anything is possible if you throw enough man hours at it' to 'don't do it, pay a pro'. I wouldn't have been at it for 9 years before my first post if accolades or indeed financial gain were a priority so bear with me.
Today is the first day of December so on the run up to Christmas I thought I'd try and post a picture a day, look upon it as The Ghibli Resurrection Advent Calendar
All I'll say is there's highs and low's and I'm still hoping we end on a high!
Barbecue area becomes spray booth
Today is the first day of December so on the run up to Christmas I thought I'd try and post a picture a day, look upon it as The Ghibli Resurrection Advent Calendar
All I'll say is there's highs and low's and I'm still hoping we end on a high!
Barbecue area becomes spray booth
uk66fastback said:
Ah, Sept 2012 - I've been under the impression that this was all taking place NOW - ie late Nov/early Dec. and I'm sat here shaking my head, thinking you're going to be spraying a Maserati OUTSIDE in zero temperature ...
So the car must be sprayed now then, yes? Are you teasing us with these high build primer shots? The colour is chosen and done - it must be - I was thinking you must be hard as nails, spraying that primer in a T-shirt the other weekend ... should have guessed by the lack of leaves on the ground maybe
Ooops, never meant to deceive, its been a while since the start of the thread. I guess like you others may think this is real time if you haven't read word for word since the beginning (I'd be impressed if you had). The idea was to condense 9 years of restoration into about a year, in fact it will be 8 months so by Christmas we will be up to date. Just so you know, yes I am still spraying right now, and as you noted it brings its own challenges but some benefits too.So the car must be sprayed now then, yes? Are you teasing us with these high build primer shots? The colour is chosen and done - it must be - I was thinking you must be hard as nails, spraying that primer in a T-shirt the other weekend ... should have guessed by the lack of leaves on the ground maybe
So all being well posts in the new year will be less frequent as I just cant work that fast -if only I could.
You may recall my indecision on the final colour, I was torn between the practicabilities of spraying solid dark red cellulose as this was what I was comfortable with, and the original metallic green which would be a challenge as I've never sprayed metallics before. The original metallic was what I really wanted.
As you can see I finally decided to go with the original Verde Bosco. The paint was originally supplied by Glidden Salchi under the code 106-G-15 but proved very difficult to source. Glasurit list it on their website but when approached confirmed they didn't have the mix code, no idea why they list it if they cant supply it. So I a contacted the Maserati factory who confirmed the paint code was correct but they too didn't have the mix codes, they did however put me onto their favoured classic body shop local to the factory and guess what - they too were also unable to help.
So I decided to match the few pieces of original paint I had against paint chips at paint factors, again this proved difficult as the first ones I approached had binned their chips years ago as the modern way is computerised or on-line. I eventually found a friendly factor with boxes of old chips that I worked my way through until I found the best match I could, the chip code was then cross referenced with the data base so the old cellulose code could be mixed in the current obligatory water based formula. I found a Fiat colour called Verdi Champion that looked identical outside in sunlight, in the shade and in artificial light, it appeared to my eyes at least spot on. If anyone ever finds the mix codes for Verdi Bosco I wouldn't be surprised to find its the same as Verdi Champion. The manufacturer is Spies Hecker and I can PM the full mix codes if anyone wants it.
So here it is, other photo's show it varies dramatically dependant on the intensity of direct light as we'll soon see.
As you can see I finally decided to go with the original Verde Bosco. The paint was originally supplied by Glidden Salchi under the code 106-G-15 but proved very difficult to source. Glasurit list it on their website but when approached confirmed they didn't have the mix code, no idea why they list it if they cant supply it. So I a contacted the Maserati factory who confirmed the paint code was correct but they too didn't have the mix codes, they did however put me onto their favoured classic body shop local to the factory and guess what - they too were also unable to help.
So I decided to match the few pieces of original paint I had against paint chips at paint factors, again this proved difficult as the first ones I approached had binned their chips years ago as the modern way is computerised or on-line. I eventually found a friendly factor with boxes of old chips that I worked my way through until I found the best match I could, the chip code was then cross referenced with the data base so the old cellulose code could be mixed in the current obligatory water based formula. I found a Fiat colour called Verdi Champion that looked identical outside in sunlight, in the shade and in artificial light, it appeared to my eyes at least spot on. If anyone ever finds the mix codes for Verdi Bosco I wouldn't be surprised to find its the same as Verdi Champion. The manufacturer is Spies Hecker and I can PM the full mix codes if anyone wants it.
So here it is, other photo's show it varies dramatically dependant on the intensity of direct light as we'll soon see.
uk66fastback said:
Chadspeed - all looking good. Any chance of an indea what the paint cost you - in fact what doing the respray yourself cost (or saved) vs getting an outside firm to do it. Just trying to work out some costs for a possible future project. I imagine the paint wasn't cheap in this instance!
Hi uk66fastback,
This is what the materials cost for the colour and clear coats, filler/primer not included:
Metallic waterbased colour coat by Spies Hecker - 4 litres
2k clear lacquer coat by De Beer - 5 litres
2k clear coat hardener by De Beer - 2.5 litre
Box 100 strainers
Panel wipe - 5 litres
Gun wash thinners - 5 litres
Total £495
I thought this was pretty reasonable compared to the reflex purple paint on 'her in doors' Tuscan at £1200 a litre! - always been high maintenance that one
. To clarify, £495 was the first invoice and would have been sufficient if I'd got it right first time. As it was I had to return to the paint factors a couple of times to purchase additional materials (to mutters of 'Christ he must be painting the titanic'
).Labour wise, hard to say really but I know a professional sprayer who I guess would charge in the region of £1.5-£2k to spray the top coats including paint supply, that's if all the prep and masking had been done first. To have a top job done on a Ghibli, drive in drive out, I've heard figures of £10k quoted and I can believe it looking at the manhours required.
I wont be giving up the day job any-time soon that's for sure.
Regarding health and safety that’s a good point swisstoni. Its not like it was when I sprayed my first car in my late teens with a homemade compressor (washing machine motor, Villiers lawn mower engine back driven as a compressor and no receiver or filters, click My Profile/My Garage/Reliant Sabre 4 to see the result).
Looking back, spraying cellulose outside was so easy, forgiving and relatively safe (if you stand up wind).
If you look closely at Richard spraying you’ll see two air lines as pointed out by gowmonster, one for the gun, one for an air fed mask. It’s actually the water based colour coat he’s spraying but I recon it’s worse than the 2k clear coat, breathe it in by accident as I have and you have the most bitter, acrid taste at the back of your throat for a good while.
Air fed mask on the bench, small blue 4cfm compressor for the mask (it works flat out to feed the mask) and larger black 8cfm compressor for spraying.
Looking back, spraying cellulose outside was so easy, forgiving and relatively safe (if you stand up wind
).If you look closely at Richard spraying you’ll see two air lines as pointed out by gowmonster, one for the gun, one for an air fed mask. It’s actually the water based colour coat he’s spraying but I recon it’s worse than the 2k clear coat, breathe it in by accident as I have and you have the most bitter, acrid taste at the back of your throat for a good while.
Air fed mask on the bench, small blue 4cfm compressor for the mask (it works flat out to feed the mask) and larger black 8cfm compressor for spraying.
Gareth1974 said:
Looked at your garage, and now I want to know the story of your 'RD035'!
Indeed a whole new story there, 5 years in the making, when I was younger and got so much more done in a day than I can now. More or less scratch built with the Beta March 761 (my all time favorite F1 car) as inspiration and amazing fun on the road until my own mortality began to bear on my mind once I had children. The engineering was for me at the time a challenge, 375kg fueled and ready to go with 125bhp, I learnt a lot about chassis and suspension etc but the real hurdle was registering it in my own name and getting a current registration mark, a 'Q' plate was not an option for me at the time.Kept track of it for a while after I sold it and watched it go through a few owners and dealers and saw it gradually morph into a Ferrari single seater look alike with a much more powerful engine than it was never designed for and questionable aero devices. Sad and worrying in equal measures.
72twink said:
I was going to mention the Sabre badge on the pin board but you beat me to it, GTE and M50 Elite as past project as well?
The Reliant Sabre was a project for sure especially at aged 19 but the Scimitar SE5a and Lotus Elite 501 were daily drivers. Having said that they seemed as much work as a project just keeping them in good fettle and on the road.v8250 said:
Chadspeed, it is for certain that many us are in awe of your work completed so far. Simply put, this is the very best thread on PH and have many of us eagerly watching your progress on almost a daily basis; frankly, you deserve the PH Best Thread Award 2012-2013. You are completing a home based restoration on a complex vehicle structure that would put off many a 'restoration company', using wonderful skills, all within the confines of a domestic garage and a tarpaulined tent on the home patio...bloody marvellous! Hope you're managing to keep warm on these colder days and look forward to the next installment... 
Well thanks for the kind words, I managed an hour or so out there last night and it was bitterly cold so gave up. This evening I did a bit and came out of the garage to find the temperature outside had risen dramatically so it was colder inside than out - strange indeed. The heater only goes on at the weekend and I'm hoping this one coming will be the last one spraying.
This is actually the colour coat still wet not the clear coat
Richard was with me for only a day but we managed to get two colour coats and a single clear coat on the shell I.e. not bonnet, doors, boot, headlamp buckets etc. The clear lacquer needs two coats, the second applied preferably no more than 12 hours after the first. I was on my own from now on so the next day I would see whether my cellulose spraying skills were transferable to 2k.
I said I'd try and post a picture a day in December and so I will, but after another set back in the garage this weekend motivation is a bit low. This was the first set back about 8 weeks ago when I sprayed the second clear coat on the body, turned out my cellulose skills were way short of 2K. In my defence there was a reason but in truth I was woefully poor.
The runs were caused by:
A. Not fully getting it into my brain that the damn stuff doesn't flash off, there's about 45 minutes for it to run, not 15 seconds - what a dummy. I knew that of course but when you have the mask on and the gun in your hand old habits dye hard.
B. I thought I'd add some 2K thinners to get that super glossy finish, I added too much.
Said it would be a bumppy ride, more like a Nantucket sleigh-ride
Waiting for the 'told you so's' with flame proof suit on.
The runs were caused by:
A. Not fully getting it into my brain that the damn stuff doesn't flash off, there's about 45 minutes for it to run, not 15 seconds - what a dummy. I knew that of course but when you have the mask on and the gun in your hand old habits dye hard.
B. I thought I'd add some 2K thinners to get that super glossy finish, I added too much.
Said it would be a bumppy ride, more like a Nantucket sleigh-ride
Waiting for the 'told you so's' with flame proof suit on.
The spectacular runs were in two other area's, here's the one on the front wing?
Not a complete disaster, as has been pointed out a bit of careful wet sanding should recover the situation. However I saw a little device called a run razor and decided to give it a go - big mistake! It worked acceptably well in a few places being super careful not to trim too deep, but on the rear wing it tore the run off including the colour coat to leave a pea sized circle of yellow primer
.
Not a complete disaster, as has been pointed out a bit of careful wet sanding should recover the situation. However I saw a little device called a run razor and decided to give it a go - big mistake! It worked acceptably well in a few places being super careful not to trim too deep, but on the rear wing it tore the run off including the colour coat to leave a pea sized circle of yellow primer
.The problems encountered so far with the top coats would soon seem insignificant. Remember the primer issues on the front nearside wing which I was sure I'd solved, well appears I was wrong.
Over a couple of days two or three bubbles appeared and grew.
This is about 4 days after the first clear coat went on.
Same area a day later
What was that you said about patience blueg33?
Over a couple of days two or three bubbles appeared and grew.
This is about 4 days after the first clear coat went on.
Same area a day later
What was that you said about patience blueg33?
Not knowing what caused the paint to bubble and lift is almost as bad as it happening in the first place. If you don't know what to avoid its difficult to prevent it happening again - at least it was confined to just the front nearside wing.
Rubbing back one of the bubbles to see if local repairs would be possible, this is about the end of September.
Defect sanded out and brought back up to original profile
PS Just come in from doing an hour or so and its damn cold out there.
Rubbing back one of the bubbles to see if local repairs would be possible, this is about the end of September.
Defect sanded out and brought back up to original profile
PS Just come in from doing an hour or so and its damn cold out there.
windy1 said:
Did you use 2K primers or were they solvent based acrylics?
The primers were cellulose based not 2k. I spent some time researching the compatibility of cellulose primer and water base colour and all indications were positive, assuming you take the usual precautions with the primers. So I don't really think it was a compatibility issue which is backed up by the problems being confined to one area.evil len said:
Will you (did you) flat back the colour coat before the clear coats (to remove the mottled effect) ?
The colour base coat was perfectly smooth and flat, the mottled finish is in the clear coat. If the base coat is less than perfect you are more or less stuffed as no flatting off is possible before the clear coat, its paper thin and the metallic particles rub out, even wiping down with 'panel wipe' is not a good idea as we'll see later.I never did put the colour and clear coats on the repaired blister on the wheel arch. Even if I had been skilful enough to blend the patch in I still had a worry that other defects would appear in the future and I would be chasing them round forever. So, and I guess you knew this was coming, I decided it all had to come off in any area that was suspect.
The clear coat was super tough but still flexible enough being only a few weeks old, to tear off the body surface. The effort to tear it off reduced markedly around the defect areas giving me confidence that I would know just how big an area I would have to remove.
Its clear the problem was the yellow primer going over the grey, where it hadn't adhered it was easy to scrape off.
The blisters were perfectly dry inside and there was no residue or discolouration, or any clue at all really. The only thing that comes to mind is this was the only area of the car that the yellow primer was sprayed in direct sunlight. If I laid the primer on too thickly the sun could have helped the surface to flash off too fast and dry before the lower layer could release its thinners, never had a problem with similar paints and spraying conditions in the past but I guess there's always a first time
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