So what's wrong with IT?
Discussion
Computeach phoned me up the other day and asked me if I wanted to use their services.
For 3 years pissing about on a computer and £5100 I get CompTIA A+ & Security, and MCSA and MCSE.
What's it mean? Will there be anything left when I finally get the letters? Will it by then have street sweeper status - no money, for random button pushing?
It was a passing thought, and I invite the most cynical comments from the usual suspects (Matt
), topical witty crap also welcome.
For 3 years pissing about on a computer and £5100 I get CompTIA A+ & Security, and MCSA and MCSE.
What's it mean? Will there be anything left when I finally get the letters? Will it by then have street sweeper status - no money, for random button pushing?
It was a passing thought, and I invite the most cynical comments from the usual suspects (Matt
), topical witty crap also welcome. The letters mean nothing.
Getting a £12K first gig on a helpdesk/desktop support/network dogsbody type role will give you the same level of training but wont cost £5K and you'll be able to interface with users, which is the critical point here.
Knowing the max transmission length of Cat5e doesnt help when you have a department of users who have lost internet access at lunchtime.
Personally and with the benefit of hindsight I wouldnt but only because things have changed. There are so many people in IT it is no longer a golden goose, its the plumbing of 20 years ago.
Getting a £12K first gig on a helpdesk/desktop support/network dogsbody type role will give you the same level of training but wont cost £5K and you'll be able to interface with users, which is the critical point here.
Knowing the max transmission length of Cat5e doesnt help when you have a department of users who have lost internet access at lunchtime.
Personally and with the benefit of hindsight I wouldnt but only because things have changed. There are so many people in IT it is no longer a golden goose, its the plumbing of 20 years ago.
Did you ask them about plumbing courses? Now that can be a nice earner.
MCSE looks nice but there are so many paper MCSE's out there that it's very diluted as an indicator of ability.
Experience experience experience is the all important rule
Saying that, I'd go for something like CCNA/CCNP or MCDBA, these still have credibility and can lead onto some meaty stuff (Oracle etc). But most of these can be done from home for a fraction of the money.
MCSE looks nice but there are so many paper MCSE's out there that it's very diluted as an indicator of ability.
Experience experience experience is the all important rule
Saying that, I'd go for something like CCNA/CCNP or MCDBA, these still have credibility and can lead onto some meaty stuff (Oracle etc). But most of these can be done from home for a fraction of the money.
Plotloss said:
Too many (inexperienced) people chasing too few jobs.
Not content with knackering the contract market the monkeys wanted to ruin perm as well...
Which monkeys are they that you refer to?
The monkeys who apply for jobs, or the monkeys that employ them based on a piece of paper gained through memorising facts for a multiple guess test?
Both I suppose.
The lure of easy money and difficult resourcing choices led us to this situation fundamentally.
But the contract market was killed by people thinking they were contractor grade when they werent. Its an expert market, thats why its costs so much. You then get people saying I dont have the skills required but I'll do it for £25 per hour which knackers the proper contractors.
It was a good gravy train while it lasted though
The lure of easy money and difficult resourcing choices led us to this situation fundamentally.
But the contract market was killed by people thinking they were contractor grade when they werent. Its an expert market, thats why its costs so much. You then get people saying I dont have the skills required but I'll do it for £25 per hour which knackers the proper contractors.
It was a good gravy train while it lasted though
I've interviewed many MSCE's and only one of them was ever any good. Like others have said, the qualification has been discredited with the amount of braindump sites. A lot of colleges are also offering MCP / MSCE / CCNA quals now as well, but experience counts for everything. Sure, MSCE is a nice to have - the icing on the cake if you like but at the end of the day it's only the Microsoft way of fixing something. There are usually a million and one alternatives - many better / easier / quicker and when you have a server down, experience tells you the best way to handle the situation.
I did my MSCE in NT4 way back when, then re-did the whole lot up to MSCE 2000 because I was too lazy to do the 240 upgrade exam. I don't see it as worth much to me anymore, I certainly won't be going any further Microsoft qualifications. My experience gets me the jobs now.
If you want to get into IT, get a job as a junior techie in a company you're allowed to do everything (ie not just 1st line on the phone stuff). You won't look back in terms of experience.
Phil.
I did my MSCE in NT4 way back when, then re-did the whole lot up to MSCE 2000 because I was too lazy to do the 240 upgrade exam. I don't see it as worth much to me anymore, I certainly won't be going any further Microsoft qualifications. My experience gets me the jobs now.
If you want to get into IT, get a job as a junior techie in a company you're allowed to do everything (ie not just 1st line on the phone stuff). You won't look back in terms of experience.
Phil.
Just quit my job to take up another in IT. To be honest the steps that I had to go through for my new job were extreme. A three interviews, technical review and three directly interviewed references on my abilities, background etc. Also, my background was checked out with all qualifications and previous jobs checked out...
Well paid though - but in a specific key area. Fingers crossed that it works out, but looks good... cant wait.
From what I see, there isnt anything wrong with IT at the moment.
Well paid though - but in a specific key area. Fingers crossed that it works out, but looks good... cant wait.
From what I see, there isnt anything wrong with IT at the moment.
That always makes I larf Scruffy said:
Computeach phoned me up the other day and asked me if I wanted to use their services.
For 3 years pissing about on a computer and £5100 I get CompTIA A+ & Security, and MCSA and MCSE.
TBH in 3 years those qualifications will ahve changed anyway. I've been in the industry for 10 years stright out of uni and I've learned a new technology or platform at least once a year to keep up - doing a MCSE over 3 years is a bit pointless I think...
Also as MAtt says far too many people chasing not eonough work - no real guarantee you can make good money until you've got a long history of experience and some decent names on your CV.
IF you want ot get into IT either go the helpdesk route as matt says, or go the whole hog and do an IT degree / Masters instead.
Frankly I've never bothered with the Microsoft Certification and I've never had an employer care whether I had it to be honest....
It means that you will be put in cram school to pass tests for bits of paper that used to have meaning, without actually teaching you about the subject. HR drones don't know any better so they will hire you. They will take you to the only department in the building that has broken office chairs, hand you a compaq screwdriver and sit you in front of the companies ageing p3 zeon 1u exchange 5.5 server that they bought second hand when they upgraded from carrier pigeons. They will then tell you to make their email go faster despite the fact you may well have never seen NT4 before and wonder why you cant make the MMC come up. Your budget is nil until the next big virus scare happens and you cannot afford any outside contractors to fix it. The helpdesk are too busy telling your end users not to use the CD-ROM tray as a cupholder and not to drool on their keyboards. Second line support are too busy replacing monitors for users who blocked the air vents up on theirs with soft toys and replacing laptops for snooty PAs who break the screens to try and get a free upgrade. You realise that you are directly in the firing line and quit before you catch hell.
IT is treated by most companies with contempt because you are seen as eating into profit margins without generating revenue. IT workers are normally the first to be downsized when the company is in trouble because it is normally at least a week or two, maybe a month before something important breaks so they don't associate the fault with the sacking of the department. The majority of IT people are not as well paid as they once were but they still have the reputation for earning a lot of money. This means everyone who can afford to get paper certs tried to get in on the deal, then find out there is no job at the end of it, or find a job they neither understand not have any passion for.
At the moment plumbers and builders make a fortune. Half of the IT sector is trying to get into another job.
>> Edited by sadako on Monday 11th April 17:46
IT is treated by most companies with contempt because you are seen as eating into profit margins without generating revenue. IT workers are normally the first to be downsized when the company is in trouble because it is normally at least a week or two, maybe a month before something important breaks so they don't associate the fault with the sacking of the department. The majority of IT people are not as well paid as they once were but they still have the reputation for earning a lot of money. This means everyone who can afford to get paper certs tried to get in on the deal, then find out there is no job at the end of it, or find a job they neither understand not have any passion for.
At the moment plumbers and builders make a fortune. Half of the IT sector is trying to get into another job.
>> Edited by sadako on Monday 11th April 17:46
The problem with courses such as you mention is that they are entirely useless without practical experience, in fact, if you learn it 'the microshaft way' to begin with, you may never recover.
Ive been programming in microsoft land now for about 15 months and am just about to start on the route to becoming an mcsd, and I still dont feel I have enough practical experience in many of the areas.
Ive been programming in microsoft land now for about 15 months and am just about to start on the route to becoming an mcsd, and I still dont feel I have enough practical experience in many of the areas.
Computeach is a blatant scam that should be stopped. There is probrably 50000 IT graduates in society who wanted to work in the IT industry but never got their first break and had to take another career. How does computeach think they can get muppets jobs by doing a short course when their are people with A-Levels, Degrees and in some cases experience that cannot find work. It is almost criminal that they are alowed to exist 
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff