Norman Kember Hero or Zero
Discussion
Is Norman Kember a hero or a silly old man who got out of his depth and is too arrogant to admit his folly?
Should he be given publicity for his ill-advised stunt and is it right to say he was released as opposed to rescued.
Should soldiers risk their lives to rescue persons who choose to put themselves in danger and are naive in their expectations.
Finally, has anyone heard anything more from the so called Peace Activists who went to Iraq in the early stages of the war to become a shield of peace between the coalition forces and their Iraqi targets?
Only to find themselves being used to shield military installations. They left disillusioned and sheeplike to return to their respective countries with none of the fanfare and publicity they prompted on their outward journey.
Did their presance change anything? No. Has Mr Kember and his companions change anything? No. Unfortunately it resulted in the needless death of fellow peace activist Mr Fox.
But I expect Mr Kember will be hailed a hero by some, and his story of life in captivity is already being sought by sections of the press.
At the end of the day his wife, who must know him best has described him as "silly for going to Iraq but he felt he must do something at his age, before it is too late".
I wonder if he'll have the humility to thank those responsible for his rescue or will he use his new found freedom to denounce the Forces of those fighting in Iraq.
His captors* seemed unmoved by his posturing, maybe he should reflect on why these people have no regard for the peace he wishes to bring to the region. Maybe his God is not recognised by those he sought to identify with, or more likely they have no inclination to recognise Western ideals and only goal is the rule of Islam over the Western infidels.
>> *Thank you Tyre Smoke*
>> Edited by XMG5 on Friday 24th March 15:15
Should he be given publicity for his ill-advised stunt and is it right to say he was released as opposed to rescued.
Should soldiers risk their lives to rescue persons who choose to put themselves in danger and are naive in their expectations.
Finally, has anyone heard anything more from the so called Peace Activists who went to Iraq in the early stages of the war to become a shield of peace between the coalition forces and their Iraqi targets?
Only to find themselves being used to shield military installations. They left disillusioned and sheeplike to return to their respective countries with none of the fanfare and publicity they prompted on their outward journey.
Did their presance change anything? No. Has Mr Kember and his companions change anything? No. Unfortunately it resulted in the needless death of fellow peace activist Mr Fox.
But I expect Mr Kember will be hailed a hero by some, and his story of life in captivity is already being sought by sections of the press.
At the end of the day his wife, who must know him best has described him as "silly for going to Iraq but he felt he must do something at his age, before it is too late".
I wonder if he'll have the humility to thank those responsible for his rescue or will he use his new found freedom to denounce the Forces of those fighting in Iraq.
His captors* seemed unmoved by his posturing, maybe he should reflect on why these people have no regard for the peace he wishes to bring to the region. Maybe his God is not recognised by those he sought to identify with, or more likely they have no inclination to recognise Western ideals and only goal is the rule of Islam over the Western infidels.
>> *Thank you Tyre Smoke*
>> Edited by XMG5 on Friday 24th March 15:15
I was listening to an interview with a member of his Christian Peacemakers (or whatever they're called) group and the chap said that they would rather he had not been rescued by our troops because the troops should not have been there. Fair play to the chap for doing something he felt he had to but a bit of gratitude for the poor bastards who put their lives on the line would be in order.
He's no hero and he isn't a zero.
He's just an old dude who's been freed from a bunch of sick arse bandits.
There's bound to be a big deal over it. I'd be a little suprised if nothing had been mentioned on the news.
There doesn't have to be a 'hero or not' inquest.
>> Edited by Adonai on Friday 24th March 11:41
He's just an old dude who's been freed from a bunch of sick arse bandits.
There's bound to be a big deal over it. I'd be a little suprised if nothing had been mentioned on the news.
There doesn't have to be a 'hero or not' inquest.
>> Edited by Adonai on Friday 24th March 11:41
No hero vote from here too.
My father is in the oil industry and has been asked countless times if he wants to go out there (double/triple salary and all that) and even with the 2 ex SAS/mercenaries he gets to guard him (he goes to Algeria/Nigeria and the Congo quite a bit so needs them) he still says no.
His quote is usually:
'Wants the point in being paid all that money if you can't spend it'
In my opinion its all a matter of when you get shot/kidnapped/beaten up and not if out there. Let them be and sort out their own country if they are so hell bent on not letting outsiders help them.
All my own opinion of course tho.
My father is in the oil industry and has been asked countless times if he wants to go out there (double/triple salary and all that) and even with the 2 ex SAS/mercenaries he gets to guard him (he goes to Algeria/Nigeria and the Congo quite a bit so needs them) he still says no.
His quote is usually:
'Wants the point in being paid all that money if you can't spend it'
In my opinion its all a matter of when you get shot/kidnapped/beaten up and not if out there. Let them be and sort out their own country if they are so hell bent on not letting outsiders help them.
All my own opinion of course tho.
Zero. Naive beyond belief, weapons grade stupidity, as with all of his kind.
Also piss poor response (although no more than expected) from CND on their website as posted on this thread:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=254387&f=141&h=0
I even sent them a shirty (but polite) email about it yesterday, surprise surprise haven't had a response.
Also piss poor response (although no more than expected) from CND on their website as posted on this thread:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=254387&f=141&h=0
I even sent them a shirty (but polite) email about it yesterday, surprise surprise haven't had a response.
They are all very lucky to be alive, how I don't know.
Obviously one poor man last his life in dispicable circumstances.
Hero/zero well they ain't hero's that's for sure BUT you have to bear in mind that they were trying to do good in their own eyes.
As to being less than aware, on their release they were taken to the green zone. One of their group members, on hearing this had to ask the press their "what is the green zone in Bagdad"
Totally out of touch with the realities of the situation they found themselves in.
MoJo.
Obviously one poor man last his life in dispicable circumstances.
Hero/zero well they ain't hero's that's for sure BUT you have to bear in mind that they were trying to do good in their own eyes.
As to being less than aware, on their release they were taken to the green zone. One of their group members, on hearing this had to ask the press their "what is the green zone in Bagdad"
Totally out of touch with the realities of the situation they found themselves in.
MoJo.
planetdave said:
Nice to see those fighting for justice and civilisation being given a hard time here.
It's a dangerous thing to do and he isn't in it for the money.
Done anything to improve the world today?
Probably not a huge amount...but neither did they. They weren't fighting for justice and civilisation, they were playing at being missionary.
mojocvh said:
Totally out of touch with the realities of the situation they found themselves in.
Exactly...bravery isn't bravery if one is too stupid to appreciate the danger one is going into.
planetdave said:
Nice to see those fighting for justice and civilisation being given a hard time here.
It's a dangerous thing to do and he isn't in it for the money.
Done anything to improve the world today?
'fraid not old bean, although I do read the Independent. Whether you agree/disagree on the Iraq war and I'm sure I know where you're coming from, he was a major t
t for knowingly risking his life and the lives of the people rescuing him. Surely anyone, even beardy-weirdy left-wing types knows that Iraq is an extremely dangerous place where they are likely to be beheaded/kidnapped.
Peace activist...improving the world ? we had a million people march through london to oppose the Iraq war (allegedly) and how many marched when Saddam gassed the Kurds, when he invaded Iran and cost a million lives, when he invaded Kuwait and started GW1 and when he massacred his people day in, day out ? Go on, how many peace activists marched then ? Pray tell because I don't remember any protest marches and I marched on everything from save the whale to CND in the 80's !!
AlexH said:
Nice to see those fighting for justice and civilisation being given a hard time here.
It's a dangerous thing to do and he isn't in it for the money.
Done anything to improve the world today?
Probably not a huge amount...but neither did they. They weren't fighting for justice and civilisation, they were playing at being missionary.
And what source are you taking this from? Just because he was a member of a christian group does not make him a christian missionary.
We have lots of people abroad - medics/teachers/various aid workers that go into dodgy areas coz that's where they are needed most. Some will come to grief or have close calls but that comes with the calling. I don't have the same calling but am proud that there are people who are willing to take that risk for no monetary gain instead of sitting in the UK whining about the state of the country.
We are occaisinally graced by PolarBen. He and his ilk somtimes need an emergency rescue from dire straights (almost as bad as Chris Rea). Is he foolish too? Or is his calling more macho and therefore fitting your agenda better.
it's difficult because no matter how much or how many people protested here they still weren't listened to by tony 'this could be my falklands' blair...
BUT i have no idea what these people hope to achieve other than being killed, martyred and then by extension 'showing up' the evil blairite regime. (actually i am warming to kember now..hmm!).
i like irony though so the fact that he was rescued by the fugging SAS has entertained me no end.
BUT i have no idea what these people hope to achieve other than being killed, martyred and then by extension 'showing up' the evil blairite regime. (actually i am warming to kember now..hmm!).
i like irony though so the fact that he was rescued by the fugging SAS has entertained me no end.
SIKO said:
Nice to see those fighting for justice and civilisation being given a hard time here.
It's a dangerous thing to do and he isn't in it for the money.
Done anything to improve the world today?
'fraid not old bean, although I do read the Independent. Whether you agree/disagree on the Iraq war and I'm sure I know where you're coming from, he was a major tt for knowingly risking his life and the lives of the people rescuing him.
Surely anyone, even beardy-weirdy left-wing types knows that Iraq is an extremely dangerous place where they are likely to be beheaded/kidnapped.
Peace activist...improving the world ? we had a million people march through london to oppose the Iraq war (allegedly) and how many marched when Saddam gassed the Kurds, when he invaded Iran and cost a million lives, when he invaded Kuwait and started GW1 and when he massacred his people day in, day out ? Go on, how many peace activists marched then ? Pray tell because I don't remember any protest marches and I marched on everything from save the whale to CND in the 80's !!
1)I'm pretty sure you won't know where I'm coming from coz I haven't explained my position much at all.
2)March all you want. Fat lot of good it has done - you might as well pontificate on here with the armchair warriors.
3)Pray tell WTF it has got to do with me, marching boy.
Put himself and the lives of others, who went to get him out, in great danger.
His beliefs may be right but to visit a war zone despite being warned not to, is simply foolish.
Wasn't there some woman on telly this morning who now wants to go over there as well?
Foolish beyond belief!
His beliefs may be right but to visit a war zone despite being warned not to, is simply foolish.
Wasn't there some woman on telly this morning who now wants to go over there as well?
Foolish beyond belief!
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