BBC1 Tonight at 9 - To Kill a Burglar: The Tony Martin Story
Discussion
If the law, that is designed to protect us, is so totally useless and so devoid of teeth to serve the people what do you expect? Should I continue to allow armed (bars, knives, bricks..whatever) pikeys into my home until I or my wife and kids are harmed or have a nervous breakdown. Should I HOPE that one day the law will do what is expected of it?
I am sorry but until the law does the job it was intended then the moment someone steps into my home with the express aim of robbing me (and not caring about putting on a little violence (mental or physical) if I happen to get in the way) then the person entering my house deserves no human rights at all.
I am sorry but until the law does the job it was intended then the moment someone steps into my home with the express aim of robbing me (and not caring about putting on a little violence (mental or physical) if I happen to get in the way) then the person entering my house deserves no human rights at all.
Ecks Ridgehead said:
If the law, that is designed to protect us, is so totally useless and so devoid of teeth to serve the people what do you expect? Should I continue to allow armed (bars, knives, bricks..whatever) pikeys into my home until I or my wife and kids are harmed or have a nervous breakdown. Should I HOPE that one day the law will do what is expected of it?
I am sorry but until the law does the job it was intended then the moment someone steps into my home with the express aim of robbing me (and not caring about putting on a little violence (mental or physical) if I happen to get in the way) then the person entering my house deserves no human rights at all.
If you were to wave a shotgun at a burglar and he turned around and ran, you would have successfully defended your house. If you were to shoot him in the back as he fled, when he is of no danger to you at all, it is considered to be over and above what is required to defend your house and is therefore a crime. Is this so hard to understand?
Not at all. What is hard to STOMACH is that those people who run away will come back time and time again causing misery to my family until the law gets some teeth. I would not pre-meditate shooting BUT if I and my family had been terrorised in our own home over a period of time and they still came back because the law failed me I might just lose it in that moment and shoot the liitel fu**ers!!! Is THAT so hard to understand?
Ecks Ridgehead said:
If you were to wave a shotgun at a burglar and he turned around and ran, you would have successfully defended your house. If you were to shoot him in the back as he fled, when he is of no danger to you at all, it is considered to be over and above what is required to defend your house and is therefore a crime. Is this so hard to understand?
Not at all. What is hard to STOMACH is that those people who run away will come back time and time again causing misery to my family until the law gets some teeth. I would not pre-meditate shooting BUT if I and my family had been terrorised in our own home over a period of time and they still came back because the law failed me I might just lose it in that moment and shoot the liitel fu**ers!!! Is THAT so hard to understand?
Really? Faced with literally millions of homes around the country, the spineless little toe-rags will go back to the one house which has a psycho waving a shotgun around in it, will they?
Oh, and if you buy a gun, the sole purpose of which is to defend your home, you are, by definition, pre-meditating shooting.
Ecks...it's pointless -- you are obviously never going to get this are you? The law is an ass and until it does the job it was supposed to then we will beg to differ as to how justice is best served !!!
Ecks Ridgehead said:
Ecks...it's pointless -- you are obviously never going to get this are you? The law is an ass and until it does the job it was supposed to then we will beg to differ as to how justice is best served !!!
Burglary = crime
Shooting someone in the back as they run away from you = crime
Sorry, I can't see how the law is an ass here. Please explain.
Incidentally, what job in your view is the law supposed to do?
Burglary - pre-meditated attempt to steal good from hard working person
Shooting - reaction to being scared shitless in your own home
Law - supposed to protect the victim and punish the guilty (i.e put the tossers inside for a long time) it fails time and time again so an ass.
Sorry - cannot afford to speand any more wasted moments at my keyboard answering to liberal clap trap!
Jaglover said:
If a burglar breaks into someone’s home then only the most disproportionate violence by the householder should be subject to any legal penalty.
If they encounter them they should be able to strike them or stab them with any weapon that is to hand. The Tony Martin case is somewhat unique because the burglars were already running away, and outside his house?, when he killed the boy. This means it is a grey area for me, but if I had been on the Jury I would have not convicted him.
The current law when the householder is supposed to calmly view what weapons the burglar is carrying before he can pick up one himself is an absolute nonsense. The law should be changed urgently so that only in the most exceptional circumstances would the householder face prosecution.
Agreed!! I would have found him not guilty too!! Let common sense prevail!!
Ecks Ridgehead said:
If they encounter them they should be able to strike them or stab them with any weapon that is to hand. The Tony Martin case is somewhat unique because the burglars were already running away, and outside his house?, when he killed the boy. This means it is a grey area for me, but if I had been on the Jury I would have not convicted him.
How is that a grey area? Under what circumstances could you possibly consider that someone running away from you is a threat to your own personal safety (which is, thank god, the only legal recourse that we have to violence)?
If someone tries to snatch your bag in the street, fails and runs away, do you believe that gives you the right to shoot him in the back?
I'd happily shoot any of these scum!! Whether they succeed or fail in their endeavours is irrelevant. Their intention was clear and it is not to further the good of society so they should be removed from society and the gene pool. Two jobs done for the price of one... deal. Three actually if you take into the account the fact that my taxes won't pay for their holidays in Broadmoor!!
IS200RJR said:
The law my friend should be there to protect the inocent the scum had already broke in to the house so that is the first crime if there was a deterant like being shot do you think the scum bag would have still tried to burgle the house i think what garyhun is pointing out is that the law no longer deters crime so it was left to Tony Martin to defend his home and family.
IS200 - you are correct!!
Ecks Ridgehead said:
I'd happily shoot any of these scum!! Whether they succeed or fail in their endeavours is irrelevant. Their intention was clear and it is not to further the good of society so they should be removed from society and the gene pool. Two jobs done for the price of one... deal. Three actually if you take into the account the fact that my taxes won't pay for their holidays in Broadmoor!!
Like the Jews, right? Hell, I'm with you there! They never furthered the good of society, did they? And after all, that's the basis on which someone should live or die. I like your thinking there, Kommandant!
I can't remember the part of history where the Jews go round with crowbars robbing all and sundry. Please forward the link where I can read about it Mr Sandals!
Ecks Ridgehead said:
One thing for sure, he dealt with the problem. Barras will never rob him again!
This old woman cut me up the other day. Nice looking old lady she was, protested quite politely as I dragged her from her car. She said it wasn't her fault, she thought it was her right of way. Could've happened to anyone, she said. I didn't listen, though. I just put her head inside the car door and repeatedly slammed it on her until she was dead. Oh, sure, you may say it was unnecessary, but one thing's for sure, I dealt with the problem. She'll never cut me up again!
Such a wonderfully effective analogy. A legend in your own sandals!!My wife and I were attacked last week in our house by a bloke with a baseball bat. My daughter saw it all and is totally traumatised. It was the 5th time these people had come to rob the house, even though we kept calling the poilce. The guy apparently does it all over the county and had just been let out after serving 3 months of a 2 year sentence due to good behaviour. I only had a knife and I was worried that if I stabbed hin and killed him I might end up in prison cos it's more dangerous than his baseball bat. If I'd gone to prison who would look after my wife and daughter? The wife and I will hopefully be out of hospital in 2 months and then we can get our daughter back from social services and start again. I'm sure we'll all be OK. Oh..and my neighbours house was done over last night...the police think it's the same bloke who beat us up. Ah well, at least I did not break the law defending myself!!
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 11:34
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 11:34
garyhun said:
My wife and I were attacked last week in our house by a bloke with a baseball bat. My daughter saw it all and is totally traumatised. It was the 5th time these people had come to rob the house, even though we kept calling the poilce. The guy apparently does it all over the county and had just been let out after serving 3 months of a 2 year sentence due to good behaviour. I only had a knife and I was worried that if I stabbed hin and killed him I might end up in prison cos it's more dangerous than his baseball bat. If I'd gone to prison who would look after my wife and daughter? The wife and I will hopefully be out of hospital in 2 months and then we can get our daughter back from social services and start again. I'm sure we'll all be OK. Oh..and my neighbours house was done over last night...the police think it's the same bloke who beat us up. Ah well, at least I did not break the law defending myself!!
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 11:34
Ecks..I noticed you ignored this. Oversight or too much to respond to?
Raify said:
Oh dear...you've got to worry when a man with "Hun" in his name agrees with your ideas on euthanasia...
Shall we start another room in PH for everyone that wants petty thieves shot / sterilised / bred out of existence before they're born? Instead of Pie & Piston, we could call it:
The Aryan Christian
Ze Kamp
Mega City One
Excellent idea. And another for all those who think it's wrong to defend yourself in your own home. YOu could write a book about it:
Sandal City
How to better a burglar by sending him on holiday
The Law - it worked once
Ecks Ridgehead said:
My wife and I were attacked last week in our house by a bloke with a baseball bat. My daughter saw it all and is totally traumatised. It was the 5th time these people had come to rob the house, even though we kept calling the poilce. The guy apparently does it all over the county and had just been let out after serving 3 months of a 2 year sentence due to good behaviour. I only had a knife and I was worried that if I stabbed hin and killed him I might end up in prison cos it's more dangerous than his baseball bat. If I'd gone to prison who would look after my wife and daughter? The wife and I will hopefully be out of hospital in 2 months and then we can get our daughter back from social services and start again. I'm sure we'll all be OK. Oh..and my neighbours house was done over last night...the police think it's the same bloke who beat us up. Ah well, at least I did not break the law defending myself!!
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th March 11:34
Ecks..I noticed you ignored this. Oversight or too much to respond to?
OK...
It's very clunky, exceedingly far-fetched (why would they come back five times to rob you? Did they have a really, really small swag bag? If he does it all around the country and has done it five, count 'em, five times at your house and he's out on parole, I think the police would probably do something) and the spelling and grammar leave a lot to be desired. All in all, don't give up your day job.
Oh, you wanted a response, not a critique? OK...
I'm not quite sure of the point you're trying to make. It seems to be that if you'd stabbed him then none of it would have happened. Well, if it had been me in that same situation, I think I would have stabbed him. A baseball bat is far longer range than a knife, so could be considered to be equivalent. Plus, if there was nothing else to hand you wouldn't be expected to go bare knuckle against him. So to conclude, you'd be pretty stupid to think about self-defence vs manslaughter in that situation...and to be honest I don't think you would anyway. And no jury in the land would convict you.
Happier now?
You do like to make out that the 5 times is all a sham, don't you? I believe Tony Martin was being hounded by those pikeys on multiple occasions - FACT. And if you knew anything about these type of people it's that when they know they can get away with robbing a house they WILL return. So I'd be stupid to think about self defence would I? - sorry do not agree one bit with that. The fact that people are going to prison and the law is vague on this is exactly the issue here. I did not believe Tony Martin would be convicted, but he was. Therefore what you or I think has been proven to be irrelevant.
As has been said... you come into my house with the intent on doing harm then you pay the consequences.
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