Are Elises too slow?
Discussion
I agree,the elise is dynamicly flawed, and in standard (low bhp)a bit of a let down IMO. On one hand you have sublime handling, amazing braking and turn in,but then on the other you do not have enough power.I have an s1 111s that I have owned for about 4 years, and even with susbstantialy better performance than a standard elise it was very frustrating to drive.Trackdays brought it to a head, the elise was everything you needed through the corners and on the brakes, but hit a straight and all the advantages that late braking and high corner speed provide vanish and you are left being passed by cars that the elise should have for breakfast.This was to much for me, so last summer I removed the engine and rebuilt it(could not justify honda/audi costs) and now have 208bhp. Suffice to say I am no longer embarassed by my elise's sraight line speed
shnozz said:
Esprit said:
My near-standard Elise runs the quarter mile in 13.6 seconds.... At the last drag day I was at, I was about 50/50 for the day with a brace of TVR Griffith 500s there which were running 13.0-13.8s quarter miles..... given that I doubt anyone would accuse a Griff 500 of being slow in a straight line, I don't see where you're coming from.
In REAL terms, the Elise is BALLISTIC on the road. Off the mark, from 0-30, there's little on earth to keep up with it as its low weight makes the biggest difference here.
Stop worrying about on-paper figures and enjoy the thing. On the road a 111R is one of THE fastest point-to-point dry-weather cars on the road.... period.
In REAL terms, the Elise is BALLISTIC on the road. Off the mark, from 0-30, there's little on earth to keep up with it as its low weight makes the biggest difference here.
Stop worrying about on-paper figures and enjoy the thing. On the road a 111R is one of THE fastest point-to-point dry-weather cars on the road.... period.
thats a very good 1/4 time. I was managing low 14s in my B&C 160 (which is 145 on the rolling road). I was surprised to find out it was 1/2 second to a second quicker than my (4 litre) TVR Chim that I took to the same event the year previous. I put it down to the traction off the line, which is instantaneous in the Elise. The fact was at 1/4 mile the elise was at 99mph as against 110mph for the chim, so another 30 yards and it would have torn past. Having said that though, how often do you come to a 1/4 mile+ straight in everyday driving, as we know the king of the corners
EXACTLY
For the record, mine's dynoed at between 132 and 135 at the flywheel (107bhp at the treads). Mine's a little lighter than standard, but only by 30-35kg or so.... but that might make a bit of a difference
Off the mark the elise goes like a gunshot. If you are into drag racing the elise, like most cars it's all in the launch....I came from a very quick 300hp turbocharged car so I can tell you the elise to 60mph aint a slouch.
In gear accel may not be up to big engine big torque ranks but its still good.
In gear accel may not be up to big engine big torque ranks but its still good.
One thing we need to remember about Lotus is they don't do engines (really) and so are limited by the engines they can purchase from other manufacturers (in reasonable quantity and price). The original Elise concept perfectly suited the K series all aluminium engine, hence an immediate limitation of power based of the derivatives that Rover produced.
The guys with the Audi and Honda conversions have my greatest respect, perhaps that's the way to go but I agree with lots of comments on this thread ... more about the sheer driving feel and excitement.
The guys with the Audi and Honda conversions have my greatest respect, perhaps that's the way to go but I agree with lots of comments on this thread ... more about the sheer driving feel and excitement.
Edited by stevie111s on Thursday 10th May 08:48
That's exactly the point - Lotus never really gave the Elise the engine it deserved. The base 118 bhp K series is too slow, full stop. The best drivers will still be quick on a circuit as they can carry the speed round corners - but in the real world, you have to sometimes slow down for corners if you don't have full visibility round them. Which means you need to accelerate again.
The fact that there is a healthy market (with multiple competing suppliers) for engine transplants for the Elise (supercharged Honda seems the ideal engine, though the Duratec and Audi also make sense) speaks for itself. Apart from the original Mini, how many other cars have so many series-production engine replacement options? Perhaps the mk2 / mk1 Golf, I suppose - but those are all 'upgrades' with newer VAG engines.
The track gods will no doubt say that the Elise is fine and anyone wanting more power is just a boy racer - unfortunately the techniques that make underpowered Elises fast on track (late braking, carrying LOTS of speed through corners) are often dangerous on the road. On the road, if you want to overtake someone, you generally need enough power to accelerate past them in a straight line. On track, you can take the corner preceding the straight at 20 mph faster and exit the corner 20 mph up, so can drive past without having to out-accelerate the car in front. This is hardly ever possible on the road and dangerous if the corner is not openly sighted.
I still reckon an ideal engine for the Elise would be the 2 litre V6 MIVEC engine from those import Mitsu FTOs that I see buzzing around occasionally. They rev high, make a fantastic V6 howling noise, and deliver around 200 bhp IIRC. The noise is truly exotic, and 200 should be enough power to despatch most b-n-b cars.
I also agree with the turbo comment - it's all about midrange torque - the Exige may be faster on a circuit than a VXT, but on the road you frequently find yourself in the mid range of the torque curve; it's difficult to stay in the 2nd cam rev range all the time. As a result the VXT is a damn fast car on the road, and I don't just mean faster than b-n-b cars, but faster than many Porsches, M3s etc. Mine has been fiddled with a bit though
I suppose it comes down to what you use your car for. If you have 3 cars and the Elise is a track toy then the N/A high-rev thing won't be a problem and you will still be fast on track. If you love to drive your car everywhere and do lots of road miles, then IMO the car will be much more fun with some mid-range torque. Which is why I have a VXT, and if funds were unlimited then it'd be a new Exige with either supercharged Honda or (more probably) 350 bhp Audi. More power than I need, for sure, but it'd be fun
The fact that there is a healthy market (with multiple competing suppliers) for engine transplants for the Elise (supercharged Honda seems the ideal engine, though the Duratec and Audi also make sense) speaks for itself. Apart from the original Mini, how many other cars have so many series-production engine replacement options? Perhaps the mk2 / mk1 Golf, I suppose - but those are all 'upgrades' with newer VAG engines.
The track gods will no doubt say that the Elise is fine and anyone wanting more power is just a boy racer - unfortunately the techniques that make underpowered Elises fast on track (late braking, carrying LOTS of speed through corners) are often dangerous on the road. On the road, if you want to overtake someone, you generally need enough power to accelerate past them in a straight line. On track, you can take the corner preceding the straight at 20 mph faster and exit the corner 20 mph up, so can drive past without having to out-accelerate the car in front. This is hardly ever possible on the road and dangerous if the corner is not openly sighted.
I still reckon an ideal engine for the Elise would be the 2 litre V6 MIVEC engine from those import Mitsu FTOs that I see buzzing around occasionally. They rev high, make a fantastic V6 howling noise, and deliver around 200 bhp IIRC. The noise is truly exotic, and 200 should be enough power to despatch most b-n-b cars.
I also agree with the turbo comment - it's all about midrange torque - the Exige may be faster on a circuit than a VXT, but on the road you frequently find yourself in the mid range of the torque curve; it's difficult to stay in the 2nd cam rev range all the time. As a result the VXT is a damn fast car on the road, and I don't just mean faster than b-n-b cars, but faster than many Porsches, M3s etc. Mine has been fiddled with a bit though
I suppose it comes down to what you use your car for. If you have 3 cars and the Elise is a track toy then the N/A high-rev thing won't be a problem and you will still be fast on track. If you love to drive your car everywhere and do lots of road miles, then IMO the car will be much more fun with some mid-range torque. Which is why I have a VXT, and if funds were unlimited then it'd be a new Exige with either supercharged Honda or (more probably) 350 bhp Audi. More power than I need, for sure, but it'd be fun
Sorry, don't get that. There's much more to any car than just engine power. For a start the K-series is a very drivable and rev-happy unit that suits the character of the car. Dangerous on the road? Sorry but I have no problem overtaking, drop it into second or third and it's fine. If you need more power you're probably going too fast to need to overtake.
Yes, one day I may well drop a K20 in but I'm not driving around now thinking "this engine's shit, I really can't cope with this"
Yes, one day I may well drop a K20 in but I'm not driving around now thinking "this engine's shit, I really can't cope with this"
I'm with Kevin. I think the K-series in the Elise was/is a great little engine, despite its foibles. I loved my two S1's. Neither ever felt lacking (road or track), even after test-driving the Honda'd one I now own.
So why switch?
I really did fall in love with the Honda about 10 seconds after pulling out of the service road to Maidstone Sports cars. The accelleration throughout the rev-range was nothing short of phenominal, and the noise... oh baby. I just knew this engine was an absolute cracker.
Also, as anyone who knows my car (and it's previous owner) will testify, it is one of the most sorted S2 Elises out there spec-wise. I have a folder with literally thousands of pounds of receipts. It was too good a deal to turn down, and at the time of buying it I really thought "screw it, if I don't do this now, I never will".
I'm glad I took the plunge as (despite a few minor niggles) it has been a superb partner as I've delved into the trackday scene, and will remain so for years to come I think. As a road car it is also fabulous. A bit more poke to allow even safer overtaking, and superb manners on Motorways, A and B roads.
It's made a fantastic sportscar almost perfect.
So why switch?
I really did fall in love with the Honda about 10 seconds after pulling out of the service road to Maidstone Sports cars. The accelleration throughout the rev-range was nothing short of phenominal, and the noise... oh baby. I just knew this engine was an absolute cracker.
Also, as anyone who knows my car (and it's previous owner) will testify, it is one of the most sorted S2 Elises out there spec-wise. I have a folder with literally thousands of pounds of receipts. It was too good a deal to turn down, and at the time of buying it I really thought "screw it, if I don't do this now, I never will".
I'm glad I took the plunge as (despite a few minor niggles) it has been a superb partner as I've delved into the trackday scene, and will remain so for years to come I think. As a road car it is also fabulous. A bit more poke to allow even safer overtaking, and superb manners on Motorways, A and B roads.
It's made a fantastic sportscar almost perfect.
kevin ritson said:
Sorry, don't get that. There's much more to any car than just engine power. For a start the K-series is a very drivable and rev-happy unit that suits the character of the car. Dangerous on the road? Sorry but I have no problem overtaking, drop it into second or third and it's fine. If you need more power you're probably going too fast to need to overtake.
Nice half-quote out of context there. The 'dangerous on the road' was part of a larger sentence... that the way to make an Elise really fast on track is often dangerous on the road i.e. carrying lots of speed through the bend. On blind *road* bends this is often dangerous, and a slow-in fast-out approach is safer.
Along with the fact that a disappointingly large proportion of people now accelerate if you have the impudence to attempt to overtake them, I prefer to have a larger margin of safety rather than having to abort overtakes if some dick in a turbodiesel Mondeo floors it as I try to pass on a B road.
That's all I was pointing out, not trying to start an argument for the sake of it. I'll leave your last comment as I presume that was just flamebait, and IMO we're talking about personal preferences here, there's no absolute 'right' or 'wrong'.
cyberface said:
... that the way to make an Elise really fast on track is often dangerous on the road i.e. carrying lots of speed through the bend. On blind *road* bends this is often dangerous, and a slow-in fast-out approach is safer.
Along with the fact that a disappointingly large proportion of people now accelerate if you have the impudence to attempt to overtake them, I prefer to have a larger margin of safety rather than having to abort overtakes if some dick in a turbodiesel Mondeo floors it as I try to pass on a B road.
Along with the fact that a disappointingly large proportion of people now accelerate if you have the impudence to attempt to overtake them, I prefer to have a larger margin of safety rather than having to abort overtakes if some dick in a turbodiesel Mondeo floors it as I try to pass on a B road.
Funny you mention this. Most of these "fast" threads tend to end up about roadcraft (which is exactly what you're describing). I guess the nice thing about a little more grunt is that you have that extra margin to play with when you need to rely on the car a little.
S Works said:
cyberface said:
... that the way to make an Elise really fast on track is often dangerous on the road i.e. carrying lots of speed through the bend. On blind *road* bends this is often dangerous, and a slow-in fast-out approach is safer.
Along with the fact that a disappointingly large proportion of people now accelerate if you have the impudence to attempt to overtake them, I prefer to have a larger margin of safety rather than having to abort overtakes if some dick in a turbodiesel Mondeo floors it as I try to pass on a B road.
Along with the fact that a disappointingly large proportion of people now accelerate if you have the impudence to attempt to overtake them, I prefer to have a larger margin of safety rather than having to abort overtakes if some dick in a turbodiesel Mondeo floors it as I try to pass on a B road.
Funny you mention this. Most of these "fast" threads tend to end up about roadcraft (which is exactly what you're describing). I guess the nice thing about a little more grunt is that you have that extra margin to play with when you need to rely on the car a little.
This is exactly what I was getting at. Since common courtesy on the road seems to have died a death, I'm finding more and more people get really angry when I overtake them - all the way from flashing lights and waving fists, to full-on dropping a gear and nailing it... 
In situations like this it's much safer to have enough power to get away from them...cyberface said:
kevin ritson said:
Sorry, don't get that. There's much more to any car than just engine power. For a start the K-series is a very drivable and rev-happy unit that suits the character of the car. Dangerous on the road? Sorry but I have no problem overtaking, drop it into second or third and it's fine. If you need more power you're probably going too fast to need to overtake.
Nice half-quote out of context there. The 'dangerous on the road' was part of a larger sentence... that the way to make an Elise really fast on track is often dangerous on the road i.e. carrying lots of speed through the bend. On blind *road* bends this is often dangerous, and a slow-in fast-out approach is safer.
Along with the fact that a disappointingly large proportion of people now accelerate if you have the impudence to attempt to overtake them, I prefer to have a larger margin of safety rather than having to abort overtakes if some dick in a turbodiesel Mondeo floors it as I try to pass on a B road.
That's all I was pointing out, not trying to start an argument for the sake of it. I'll leave your last comment as I presume that was just flamebait, and IMO we're talking about personal preferences here, there's no absolute 'right' or 'wrong'.
I'm not quoting you out of context, I simply find that in most situations I only overtake if I know I will complete the move alive. If someone decides to race me then I simply brake, let them get on with being a dick and more than likely stop or take another route. If you try and out-accelerate them you will end up breaking the speed limit by a ridiculous amount and more than likely endanger your life.
Personally I think you need to reassess your definition of the word dangerous, this isn't the first time you've been somewhat melodramatic in its use.
An interesting one this. Yes, the Elise is not about straight line power; but yes, all the standard models I've tried (other than the Exige S) have felt fairly slow and underpowered. I guess everyone's gut feeling about what is 'quick' and what is 'fast' varies, but for me liveable performance in a car starts at around 150bhp/tonne, 'quite quick' is around 200-250 bhp/tonne, 'quick' would be 250-300 and anything over 300bhp feels 'fast'. My standard Elise S2 111S is borderline 'liveable/quick', but it's so nice to drive that I don't really lust after more power (except when carrying a passenger and luggage). I've always felt that to be taken seriously the Elise should have around 250bhp/tonne (i.e. about 225bhp for most models), and the Exige at least 250-300bhp/tonne, preferably the far side of 300bhp/tonne. What Lotus need really is a compact, lightweight and revvy 2.5 litre V6 producing around 250bhp in standard trim, and rising to over 300bhp for more track biased applications such as the Exige. I'm not sure that such an engine exists off the shelf at the right price, and a bespoke engine would probably carry huge reliability issues. I'm sure that Lotus are aware of this
RobM77 said:
An interesting one this. Yes, the Elise is not about straight line power; but yes, all the standard models I've tried (other than the Exige S) have felt fairly slow and underpowered. I guess everyone's gut feeling about what is 'quick' and what is 'fast' varies, but for me liveable performance in a car starts at around 150bhp/tonne, 'quite quick' is around 200-250 bhp/tonne, 'quick' would be 250-300 and anything over 300bhp feels 'fast'. My standard Elise S2 111S is borderline 'liveable/quick', but it's so nice to drive that I don't really lust after more power (except when carrying a passenger and luggage). I've always felt that to be taken seriously the Elise should have around 250bhp/tonne (i.e. about 225bhp for most models), and the Exige at least 250-300bhp/tonne, preferably the far side of 300bhp/tonne. What Lotus need really is a compact, lightweight and revvy 2.5 litre V6 producing around 250bhp in standard trim, and rising to over 300bhp for more track biased applications such as the Exige. I'm not sure that such an engine exists off the shelf at the right price, and a bespoke engine would probably carry huge reliability issues. I'm sure that Lotus are aware of this
111r with factory fit sc from Lotus should be available then.
Edited by zebra on Thursday 10th May 11:55
There seems to be a problem currently with the idea of overtaking. Came up behind a S-type the other day on a nearly empty rural but open back road, he wasn't dawdling but doing maybe 50. As i was enjoying myself, i indicated and accelerated past. Just before i was level he floored it, he turned to look at me not with a look of fun or mischief but with a look of disdain that i could possibly want to get past. He wouldn't relent but top end of 3rd saved the day. I could have braked however i'm not sure this would have been safer and i'd still have to follow him.
Are elises quick enough. The current R pulls hard to the top of 4th and by this stage your over 110mph so i'd say yes they are. Would i like a supercharger for my R? Yes please but i also like the fact that i don't have to sleep in the liz or the dog house.
Are elises quick enough. The current R pulls hard to the top of 4th and by this stage your over 110mph so i'd say yes they are. Would i like a supercharger for my R? Yes please but i also like the fact that i don't have to sleep in the liz or the dog house.
drac said:
There seems to be a problem currently with the idea of overtaking. Came up behind a S-type the other day on a nearly empty rural but open back road, he wasn't dawdling but doing maybe 50. As i was enjoying myself, i indicated and accelerated past. Just before i was level he floored it, he turned to look at me not with a look of fun or mischief but with a look of disdain that i could possibly want to get past. He wouldn't relent but top end of 3rd saved the day. I could have braked however i'm not sure this would have been safer and i'd still have to follow him.
Are elises quick enough. The current R pulls hard to the top of 4th and by this stage your over 110mph so i'd say yes they are. Would i like a supercharger for my R? Yes please but i also like the fact that i don't have to sleep in the liz or the dog house.
Are elises quick enough. The current R pulls hard to the top of 4th and by this stage your over 110mph so i'd say yes they are. Would i like a supercharger for my R? Yes please but i also like the fact that i don't have to sleep in the liz or the dog house.
Ding! Well said!
Gooby said:
drac said:
There seems to be a problem currently with the idea of overtaking. Came up behind a S-type the other day on a nearly empty rural but open back road, he wasn't dawdling but doing maybe 50. As i was enjoying myself, i indicated and accelerated past. Just before i was level he floored it, he turned to look at me not with a look of fun or mischief but with a look of disdain that i could possibly want to get past. He wouldn't relent but top end of 3rd saved the day. I could have braked however i'm not sure this would have been safer and i'd still have to follow him.
Are elises quick enough. The current R pulls hard to the top of 4th and by this stage your over 110mph so i'd say yes they are. Would i like a supercharger for my R? Yes please but i also like the fact that i don't have to sleep in the liz or the dog house.
Are elises quick enough. The current R pulls hard to the top of 4th and by this stage your over 110mph so i'd say yes they are. Would i like a supercharger for my R? Yes please but i also like the fact that i don't have to sleep in the liz or the dog house.
Ding! Well said!
Yes, people seem to have forgotten what overtaking is all about!
It depends what your definition of 'pulling hard' is. Personally, I think the standard R feels slow (as does my S).
charlie chan said:
RobM77 said:
An interesting one this. Yes, the Elise is not about straight line power; but yes, all the standard models I've tried (other than the Exige S) have felt fairly slow and underpowered. I guess everyone's gut feeling about what is 'quick' and what is 'fast' varies, but for me liveable performance in a car starts at around 150bhp/tonne, 'quite quick' is around 200-250 bhp/tonne, 'quick' would be 250-300 and anything over 300bhp feels 'fast'. My standard Elise S2 111S is borderline 'liveable/quick', but it's so nice to drive that I don't really lust after more power (except when carrying a passenger and luggage). I've always felt that to be taken seriously the Elise should have around 250bhp/tonne (i.e. about 225bhp for most models), and the Exige at least 250-300bhp/tonne, preferably the far side of 300bhp/tonne. What Lotus need really is a compact, lightweight and revvy 2.5 litre V6 producing around 250bhp in standard trim, and rising to over 300bhp for more track biased applications such as the Exige. I'm not sure that such an engine exists off the shelf at the right price, and a bespoke engine would probably carry huge reliability issues. I'm sure that Lotus are aware of this
111r with factory fit sc from Lotus should be available then.
Edited by zebra on Thursday 10th May 11:55
Thing is that's wringing the thing out to its maximum potential to get where I think the base model Elise should be! There's also no room for where I reckon the Exige should be as the road racer it's billed as (i.e. circa 300bhp). Just my thoughts I know, but this is deinitely an area for improvement, as the myriad of engine conversions available shows. You don't see nearly as many engine conversions for Caterhams for instance (the K-series swap for a Duratec was the only one that ever got popular, and that was still rare), and that's despite owners loving to tinker and Caterhams being easy to tinker with. Likewise other performance cars. This engine conversion thing does seem to indicate what people feel about the power on offer in the standard Elise/Exige. There are even classes for converted cars in the Elise race series!!!
Some great posts here, especially Cyberfaces one further up.
I think the problem is two fold: On one hand, the Yota powered Lotus variants suffer from very little torque up until around 7000 rpm. The other problem or better issue, I think, lies in the fact that Lotus are considered to be posh, expensive and a proper sportscar (I do anyway) - this is for one because of the brand, racing history, Chapman's philosophy and the way they look. To think that the Exige i.e. is marginally quicker than some of the hot hatches is somewhat disappointing considering it looks quicker than many more expensive Ferraris or Porsches.
Now, we all know that all Lotus, regardless if Yota or K-Series powered are very quick off the line - even quicker than many more and much quicker cars. In daily situations though, it's all in-gear acceleration that counts - flooring it from i.e. 30mph onward and you'll end up in the midrange in the Yota powered ones, where there's simply not enough torque.
I think if Lotus would have either given the Yota powered Lotuses either a better gearbox or sell it with the Motorsport ECU upgrade, you'd get a lot less whining about the performance since the power would be so much more accessible. The fact that the weight improved by nearly 100kg going from Mk1 to Mk2 didn't quite help either.
I think the problem is two fold: On one hand, the Yota powered Lotus variants suffer from very little torque up until around 7000 rpm. The other problem or better issue, I think, lies in the fact that Lotus are considered to be posh, expensive and a proper sportscar (I do anyway) - this is for one because of the brand, racing history, Chapman's philosophy and the way they look. To think that the Exige i.e. is marginally quicker than some of the hot hatches is somewhat disappointing considering it looks quicker than many more expensive Ferraris or Porsches.
Now, we all know that all Lotus, regardless if Yota or K-Series powered are very quick off the line - even quicker than many more and much quicker cars. In daily situations though, it's all in-gear acceleration that counts - flooring it from i.e. 30mph onward and you'll end up in the midrange in the Yota powered ones, where there's simply not enough torque.
I think if Lotus would have either given the Yota powered Lotuses either a better gearbox or sell it with the Motorsport ECU upgrade, you'd get a lot less whining about the performance since the power would be so much more accessible. The fact that the weight improved by nearly 100kg going from Mk1 to Mk2 didn't quite help either.
"Real Life" accelleration between 111S, 111R and Sport 160 is near as dammit imperceptible with the driver being an (almost) constant. P/W ratios are very similar.
An exceedingly unscientific experiment at North Weald last year saw my NA Honda'd S2 outpace a 111R to 80 by approx 2-3 car lengths, and that was being pretty gentle in 1st.
Still, they are bloody quick compared to most cars, but then as mentioned above, most 'average' bikes would piss all over them from a great height. So then we get back to the drive itself, to which Rob & Kevin have hit the nail squarely on the head.
Putting my earlier comment into perspective about it being nice to have the extra power on overtaking, I'm not advocating driving like a t
t to get away from someone, but the extra power means that you can execute proper overtaking (maintain safe distance, check mirrors, pull out to check road ahead, accellerate to a safe distance, pull back in without the car you're overtaking having to take any 'emergency' measures) with a little more ease.
A recent experience with an RX7 (who was clearly in the mood for racing - I wasn't), showed that discretion is the better part of valour - he was right up my arse for a long stretch of twisty A-road while I was carrying reasonable speed (50-60mph I'd say as an average but his distance from me was not comfortable). I slowed, he's stay there, stuck to my arse like glue, I accellerated to get a little distance he'd be back on my tail again as soon as I slowed. We then came across traffic and he was still right up my bung. When we came to the first available overtaking spot I could see the road was clear to overtake one car, which I did safely (noting a car approaching in the distance and not feeling comfortable with more). He then very nearly killed me, and 3 other drivers executing the biggest ttty 4-car overtake towards oncoming traffic, I've ever seen. I saw this coming and instinctively braked hard (as did the 2 cars ahead of me) and I couldn't stop myself shouting "NOOOOOO!" as he JUST and I mean, *just* made it in before what would have been a very, very nasty head-on accident.
Another idiot proving that owning a fast car doesn't make you a good, or sensible driver.
An exceedingly unscientific experiment at North Weald last year saw my NA Honda'd S2 outpace a 111R to 80 by approx 2-3 car lengths, and that was being pretty gentle in 1st.
Still, they are bloody quick compared to most cars, but then as mentioned above, most 'average' bikes would piss all over them from a great height. So then we get back to the drive itself, to which Rob & Kevin have hit the nail squarely on the head.
Putting my earlier comment into perspective about it being nice to have the extra power on overtaking, I'm not advocating driving like a t
t to get away from someone, but the extra power means that you can execute proper overtaking (maintain safe distance, check mirrors, pull out to check road ahead, accellerate to a safe distance, pull back in without the car you're overtaking having to take any 'emergency' measures) with a little more ease. A recent experience with an RX7 (who was clearly in the mood for racing - I wasn't), showed that discretion is the better part of valour - he was right up my arse for a long stretch of twisty A-road while I was carrying reasonable speed (50-60mph I'd say as an average but his distance from me was not comfortable). I slowed, he's stay there, stuck to my arse like glue, I accellerated to get a little distance he'd be back on my tail again as soon as I slowed. We then came across traffic and he was still right up my bung. When we came to the first available overtaking spot I could see the road was clear to overtake one car, which I did safely (noting a car approaching in the distance and not feeling comfortable with more). He then very nearly killed me, and 3 other drivers executing the biggest t
tty 4-car overtake towards oncoming traffic, I've ever seen. I saw this coming and instinctively braked hard (as did the 2 cars ahead of me) and I couldn't stop myself shouting "NOOOOOO!" as he JUST and I mean, *just* made it in before what would have been a very, very nasty head-on accident. Another idiot proving that owning a fast car doesn't make you a good, or sensible driver.
I have to say i agree with cyberface,the k series engine on the elise is a joke,ive owned s1,s1 111s,s2 111s and gave up wiv lotus,its the best handling car you can buy,its amazing,the trouble being with the exception of the odd track day,I would never see the real benefits of it.The final straw for me was a stupid orange focus ST takin the piss out of me on the A303 on the dual carrigeway part,simply couldn't get near it on the straights.........how embarrasing.So im afraid i also now own a VXT,the handling is poor in comparsion but still better than most cars and now i can hold my own on the road wiv any car and my mate in his s2 111s can't get near me which annoys him very much.For me the real lotus is the exige 220s or 240 cup that what a lotus should be....awesum,as we speak im saving up for a 220s and can't wait to get 1!
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