2 Eleven or Caterham or Atom

[RobM77]

Vale said:

kevin ritson said:

Vale said:

But then a bike is better vehicle round Knockhill than a Lotus.

It's not so great when you're cartwheeling down Duffus Dip and back into the path of another vehicle...

True. And thats why driving cars seems a bit tame. Follow link and play the next 3 pics. Both were OK(ish) I should add.
http://www.power-images.co.uk/gallerys/2007/knockhill/bike_racing/30-09-07/slides/30-09-07%20462.html 

If that's how you think you could always drive a car without a seatbelt on?

[Vale]

RobM77 said:

Vale said:

BSB Superstock, and Superstock Cup was definately not in the dry in 2007. That I can guarantee.

Superstock lap record is a 50.8 sec lap. Superbikes were 48's in practice.

They're not road standard though are they? Superstock bikes run slick tyres and a wet weight 15kg less than the factory list dry weight. You can't compare a race bike with a road car!

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 18th December 11:28

Superstock bikes use road tyres, not slicks, standard engines, and yes the road gear is taken off, but then they are always going to be lighter than a car. So 15kg isnt exactly the real issue is it? Bit chalk and cheese. Cars are faster around a track ultimately, just not these ones.

[Vale]

RobM77 said:

Vale said:

kevin ritson said:

Vale said:

But then a bike is better vehicle round Knockhill than a Lotus.

It's not so great when you're cartwheeling down Duffus Dip and back into the path of another vehicle...

True. And thats why driving cars seems a bit tame. Follow link and play the next 3 pics. Both were OK(ish) I should add.
http://www.power-images.co.uk/gallerys/2007/knockhill/bike_racing/30-09-07/slides/30-09-07%20462.html 

If that's how you think you could always drive a car without a seatbelt on?

And windows down? Convertible perhaps?

[RobM77]

Vale said:

RobM77 said:

Vale said:

BSB Superstock, and Superstock Cup was definately not in the dry in 2007. That I can guarantee.

Superstock lap record is a 50.8 sec lap. Superbikes were 48's in practice.

They're not road standard though are they? Superstock bikes run slick tyres and a wet weight 15kg less than the factory list dry weight. You can't compare a race bike with a road car!

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 18th December 11:28

Superstock bikes use road tyres, not slicks, standard engines, and yes the road gear is taken off, but then they are always going to be lighter than a car. So 15kg isnt exactly the real issue is it? Bit chalk and cheese. Cars are faster around a track ultimately, just not these ones.

I have to admit it's a strange comparison , but for a wet weight, 15kg off the dry weight is quite a lightening for a motorbike! It's equivalent to a lightening of over 10%. The equivalent 10% weight off a Caterham would be 45kg, which is a fair chunk! (For comparison, I weigh 67kg...).

My apologies - I thought they ran on Metzeler racing slicks. The tyres are full racing ones though aren't they? Equivalent to something like a Yoko 48R on a car? Something like this? :

http://www.metzelermoto.co.uk/web/catalog/moto/mot...

You're right, around most circuits that I've seen a comparison done on, Caterhams edge out bikes by a second or so. Bikes generally have the edge on circuits with hairpins followed by straights, or very tight sections created especially for bikes - like Silverstone circuit for bikes for instance - I think a road spec bike can pip a Radical SR3 by a few tenths around there (EVO compared a Crescent Suzuki with an SR3 a year or two ago).

Personally, I'll have both please A Fireblade or an R1 and an R400 or an R500 in my garage would make me a very happy man. Neither in illuminous colours though please

[Vale]

Metzeler sponsor the Superstock class so its a road legal control tyre, i.e. treaded. Everyone is on Racetecs.

http://www.metzelermoto.co.uk/web/catalog/moto/moto_catalogo_schedaDescription.page?categoria=/catalog/moto/supersport/none&vehicleType=MOTO&product_id=130709&uri=/metzeler/en_GB/browser/xml/catalog/moto/SuperSport_Racetec.xml&menu_item=/products/catalog/supersport 

Which are very good in the dry.

No question both are fun, just different. But about speed.

Gareth.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPQzD6Cm-M 

Rutter.
http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=316040265&channel=32445265 

Looks fun either way!

[RobM77]

Vale said:

Metzeler sponsor the Superstock class so its a road legal control tyre, i.e. treaded. Everyone is on Racetecs.

http://www.metzelermoto.co.uk/web/catalog/moto/moto_catalogo_schedaDescription.page?categoria=/catalog/moto/supersport/none&vehicleType=MOTO&product_id=130709&uri=/metzeler/en_GB/browser/xml/catalog/moto/SuperSport_Racetec.xml&menu_item=/products/catalog/supersport 

Which are very good in the dry.

See my link and analogy above. The Yoko 48R for cars is a similar tyre - road legal but very soft and blindingly quick. I still think my link to those stock bikes run by amateurs is more akin the Caterham times I found for road legal cars run by amateurs, rather than the Metzeler SS BSB support race series.

I agree both are great fun

[Vale]

RobM77 said:

Vale said:

Metzeler sponsor the Superstock class so its a road legal control tyre, i.e. treaded. Everyone is on Racetecs.

http://www.metzelermoto.co.uk/web/catalog/moto/moto_catalogo_schedaDescription.page?categoria=/catalog/moto/supersport/none&vehicleType=MOTO&product_id=130709&uri=/metzeler/en_GB/browser/xml/catalog/moto/SuperSport_Racetec.xml&menu_item=/products/catalog/supersport 

Which are very good in the dry.

See my link and analogy above. The Yoko 48R for cars is a similar tyre - road legal but very soft and blindingly quick. I still think my link to those stock bikes run by amateurs is more akin the Caterham times I found for road legal cars run by amateurs, rather than the Metzeler SS BSB support race series.

I agree both are great fun

Your link is to the MST results for Metzeler Racetec National Superstock series which supported British Superbikes in 2007. If you look in the bottom left hand corner of the results you will see one of the qualifying sessions, warm up, and the race were run in the wet, so the 60 sec times by amateurs are actually wet times by the series I mentioned. The race was abandoned by the way. Check the other qualifying session and you will see everyone was doing between 52' and 50.7.

The real amateur racers can do 53's. As can be seen on www.mylaps.com

[RobM77]

Vale said:

RobM77 said:

Vale said:

Metzeler sponsor the Superstock class so its a road legal control tyre, i.e. treaded. Everyone is on Racetecs.

http://www.metzelermoto.co.uk/web/catalog/moto/moto_catalogo_schedaDescription.page?categoria=/catalog/moto/supersport/none&vehicleType=MOTO&product_id=130709&uri=/metzeler/en_GB/browser/xml/catalog/moto/SuperSport_Racetec.xml&menu_item=/products/catalog/supersport 

Which are very good in the dry.

See my link and analogy above. The Yoko 48R for cars is a similar tyre - road legal but very soft and blindingly quick. I still think my link to those stock bikes run by amateurs is more akin the Caterham times I found for road legal cars run by amateurs, rather than the Metzeler SS BSB support race series.

I agree both are great fun

Your link is to the MST results for Metzeler Racetec National Superstock series which supported British Superbikes in 2007. If you look in the bottom left hand corner of the results you will see one of the qualifying sessions, warm up, and the race were run in the wet, so the 60 sec times by amateurs are actually wet times by the series I mentioned. The race was abandoned by the way. Check the other qualifying session and you will see everyone was doing between 52' and 50.7.

The real amateur racers can do 53's. As can be seen on www.mylaps.com

Ah, my apologies. 53s would be about what an R400 would do round there, which to be honest goes along with the times I've seen for R500 vs bike shootouts in the past. My original post was just trying to state that a bike is not necessarily the fastest way round a circuit, but you seem to be very aware of that anyway

[Vale]

For sure. You cant beat having 4 bits of rubber on the ground. Simple as that!

And you cant beat having half the grip for making it more fun. imho.

But less of that. How was Gareths driving in the vid?

[Vale]

For sure. You cant beat having 4 bits of rubber on the ground. Simple as that!

And you cant beat having half the grip for making it more fun. imho.

But less of that. How was Gareths driving in the vid?

[RobM77]

Vale said:

For sure. You cant beat having 4 bits of rubber on the ground. Simple as that!

And you cant beat having half the grip for making it more fun. imho.

But less of that. How was Gareths driving in the vid?

agreed!

I'm a big fan of in-car video, but sadly You Tube is blocked at my work. I'll check it out when I'm home on Friday though

[Cuzza]

Vale said:

But less of that. How was Gareths driving in the vid?

I don't know KH but seemed pretty smooth and the car is certainly quick - perhaps a little more kerb abuse wouldn't have gone amiss although there's a YouTube vid of a trackday where a Westie hits one of those tyre stacks or whatever they are - ouch.



I note the "forum owners" have backed down

[Tam]

Back on topic - get a 340R