replacement finger followers
Discussion
We need some idea on the cost of this kit, £300 - £1200, or more???
Till then - I am interested in Davids approach, in modifications to the standard cover. The leccy oil pump pre-priming he had thought of straight away. A few pipes unions and drill will see a perfect solution.
I am sure we are talking about £200 tops for trawling through the RS catalogue, and as David knows would be happy to make up the documentation and installation drawings FOC.
I have never asked this but why don't we use Teflon or PTFE coating chemical additives in the oil?
Till then - I am interested in Davids approach, in modifications to the standard cover. The leccy oil pump pre-priming he had thought of straight away. A few pipes unions and drill will see a perfect solution.
I am sure we are talking about £200 tops for trawling through the RS catalogue, and as David knows would be happy to make up the documentation and installation drawings FOC.
I have never asked this but why don't we use Teflon or PTFE coating chemical additives in the oil?
So does this mean the Speed 6 DOES suffer from oil starvation or poor placement of oil feeds in the head? I know this was talked about in the early days(2000-2002) of Spd6 engine problems but there does not seem to have been much talk since? I thought there had been some modifications to help this over the years? What about the latest build engines? Would this actually solve what Al Melling calls the poor geometry set up of the finger followers or just help prevent the inevitable?
Questions questions.
cheers
Whitey
Questions questions.
cheers
Whitey
Justin
Lots of mixed reviews on the effectiveness of oil additives. I searched loads of research and there was no scientific evidence to support their claims. The typical sales pitch relies on user claims and statements which sound good and are legally safe for the companies.
General conclusion is best to simply change oil ideally every 3-6000 miles.
David
Lots of mixed reviews on the effectiveness of oil additives. I searched loads of research and there was no scientific evidence to support their claims. The typical sales pitch relies on user claims and statements which sound good and are legally safe for the companies.
General conclusion is best to simply change oil ideally every 3-6000 miles.
David
I don't know about the current SP6 engine but no doubt at all that oil starvation has caused the wear on my brother's Tuscan. Inlet cam and followers are virtually like new and the exhaust has heavy scoring and the followers are all worn to various degrees.
The base supply is probably weak. Some people I have spoken to have suggested that oil pressure is weak below 1500 rpm and therefore the worst thing you can do to the engine is leave it idling to warm up - apparently alot of owners still do this.
The way the oil feed supplies the exhaust cam and the tilt on the engine looks to me as if oil struggles to reach the parts it should. A couple of spray bars is an obvious and probably the easiest retro fit.
The only challenge is routing the spray bar inside the standard cam cover which has very little clearance.
If you search on google you will see that they are still very common and available as retro fit as tuning / performance parts to engines.
The base supply is probably weak. Some people I have spoken to have suggested that oil pressure is weak below 1500 rpm and therefore the worst thing you can do to the engine is leave it idling to warm up - apparently alot of owners still do this.
The way the oil feed supplies the exhaust cam and the tilt on the engine looks to me as if oil struggles to reach the parts it should. A couple of spray bars is an obvious and probably the easiest retro fit.
The only challenge is routing the spray bar inside the standard cam cover which has very little clearance.
If you search on google you will see that they are still very common and available as retro fit as tuning / performance parts to engines.
Interesting. My engine was re-built in September by Jason Clegg (SP6 Engine tech) Full top and bottom end rebuild and I had the same scoring. I looked at the build sheet and there was a line modify oilways and oil relief. Maybe later/rebuilt engines had the problem solved by this? Just an observation..
Cheers
Cheers
Cough......TVR Craft!
The original Melling design had 4 oilways (2 on inlet and 2 on exhaust side) to the head and the current S6 only has the 2 on the inlet side. This was part of the modification process that TVR Craft built into their re-design.
The lack of oil not only has a negative impact on lubrication but also on the cooling of No 6 cylinder. I belive that Craft will do the oilway mod for c£150 but does require the engine to be taken out. Always an option though if you want the finger followers replaced with new improved parts though which brings me onto......
New Finger Followers - Craft have new up-specced design (25% stronger, improved lube channel etc) parts due in the next couple of weeks. They'll be approx £350 + Vat for a set and Dave is happy to supply parts only.
JT
The original Melling design had 4 oilways (2 on inlet and 2 on exhaust side) to the head and the current S6 only has the 2 on the inlet side. This was part of the modification process that TVR Craft built into their re-design.
The lack of oil not only has a negative impact on lubrication but also on the cooling of No 6 cylinder. I belive that Craft will do the oilway mod for c£150 but does require the engine to be taken out. Always an option though if you want the finger followers replaced with new improved parts though which brings me onto......
New Finger Followers - Craft have new up-specced design (25% stronger, improved lube channel etc) parts due in the next couple of weeks. They'll be approx £350 + Vat for a set and Dave is happy to supply parts only.
JT
Xtr2turbo said:
I don't know about the current SP6 engine but no doubt at all that oil starvation has caused the wear on my brother's Tuscan. Inlet cam and followers are virtually like new and the exhaust has heavy scoring and the followers are all worn to various degrees.
The base supply is probably weak. Some people I have spoken to have suggested that oil pressure is weak below 1500 rpm and therefore the worst thing you can do to the engine is leave it idling to warm up - apparently alot of owners still do this.
Am slightly concerned that warming up your Speed Six at idle allegedly causes damage? Caught between a rock and hard place if we cannot raise the revs when cold but can't leave it at idling speed either methinks?!! Anyone else got any views on this as currently I usually let mine idle for a bit when cold to raise Oil Temp...
J.T. said:
Cough......TVR Craft!
The lack of oil not only has a negative impact on lubrication but also on the cooling of No 6 cylinder. I belive that Craft will do the oilway mod for c£150 but does require the engine to be taken out. Always an option though if you want the finger followers replaced with new improved parts though which brings me onto......
JT
Very interesting point. My #6 piston had badly scored and there were problems due to cooling on the #6 cylinder. This I was told while my engine was being rebuilt. I had to have new pistons and a shrinked sleeve into #6. My crank was also Marked (Farndon billet type) so was polished out okay. That said it is interesting about these comments about the spray bar as I believe the oilway mods have done the same thing. I am only going on what I have been told.
cheers
J.T. said:
Cough......TVR Craft!
The original Melling design had 4 oilways (2 on inlet and 2 on exhaust side) to the head and the current S6 only has the 2 on the inlet side. This was part of the modification process that TVR Craft built into their re-design.
The lack of oil not only has a negative impact on lubrication but also on the cooling of No 6 cylinder. I belive that Craft will do the oilway mod for c£150 but does require the engine to be taken out. Always an option though if you want the finger followers replaced with new improved parts though which brings me onto......
New Finger Followers - Craft have new up-specced design (25% stronger, improved lube channel etc) parts due in the next couple of weeks. They'll be approx £350 + Vat for a set and Dave is happy to supply parts only.
JT
Hi JT,
Good point about the oil feeds on the Melling design, I think many have missed this.
Also to add to the Craft supply of custom parts, some S6's they have opened up (my 2003 included) have been found to contain sub standard quality cam shafts. Craft are offering replacements with a choice of profiles. To take lube issues further Craft can also replace the standard oil pump with a superior item. IMO, forget your snake oils and quick fixes... for a long term reliability solution you either go for the Speed 8 if thats your bag, or you take the Craft route and get them to rebuild ground up with all new custom parts.
However, this spray bar option will more than likely extend the life of the existing valve train, but IMO it alone does not address the route of the problem with the valve train....but I do love that cam cover....
Regards
G
>> Edited by yzf1070 on Thursday 20th April 05:37
But isn't the spray bar just another way of solving the problem?
Or would getting the Oil ways mod in the head still be the 'better' way of doing it?
Also on their website its menioned as a
'Engine pre-lubrication systems'
Does that mean it stops once the engine is running, so only works for a few seconds when the ignition is primed? Or is it constantly pumping oil over the top of the train?
Rgds
>> Edited by Ston on Friday 21st April 07:18
Or would getting the Oil ways mod in the head still be the 'better' way of doing it?
Also on their website its menioned as a
'Engine pre-lubrication systems'
Does that mean it stops once the engine is running, so only works for a few seconds when the ignition is primed? Or is it constantly pumping oil over the top of the train?
Rgds
>> Edited by Ston on Friday 21st April 07:18
yzf1070 said:
Cough......TVR Craft!
The original Melling design had 4 oilways (2 on inlet and 2 on exhaust side) to the head and the current S6 only has the 2 on the inlet side. This was part of the modification process that TVR Craft built into their re-design.
The lack of oil not only has a negative impact on lubrication but also on the cooling of No 6 cylinder. I belive that Craft will do the oilway mod for c£150 but does require the engine to be taken out. Always an option though if you want the finger followers replaced with new improved parts though which brings me onto......
New Finger Followers - Craft have new up-specced design (25% stronger, improved lube channel etc) parts due in the next couple of weeks. They'll be approx £350 + Vat for a set and Dave is happy to supply parts only.
JT
Hi JT,
Good point about the oil feeds on the Melling design, I think many have missed this.
Also to add to the Craft supply of custom parts, some S6's they have opened up (my 2003 included) have been found to contain sub standard quality cam shafts. Craft are offering replacements with a choice of profiles. To take lube issues further Craft can also replace the standard oil pump with a superior item. IMO, forget your snake oils and quick fixes... for a long term reliability solution you either go for the Speed 8 if thats your bag, or you take the Craft route and get them to rebuild ground up with all new custom parts.
However, this spray bar option will more than likely extend the life of the existing valve train, but IMO it alone does not address the route of the problem with the valve train....but I do love that cam cover....
Regards
G
>> Edited by yzf1070 on Thursday 20th April 05:37
Which cam shaft profile have you opted for, with that supercharged engine Graham?
I've opted for the profile that delivers more performance at the lower end from what Dave was saying - I figure it will be more usable on the roads....that is when the camshaft fairies finally decide to deliver the components!
Al
[quote=TUSC-AL
Which cam shaft profile have you opted for, with that supercharged engine Graham?
I've opted for the profile that delivers more performance at the lower end from what Dave was saying - I figure it will be more usable on the roads....that is when the camshaft fairies finally decide to deliver the components!
Al[/quote]
I decided to leave the profile selection to Daves best judgement. But it sounds like we have similar ideals, I don't want something peaky but would also rather have the lower down torque....I think the mid range rush is going to be quite enough.
Component supply is always a problem when there are a number of companies in the loop....Patience as they say is a virtue.....I just hope we dont miss this years summer....!!! I took a chance on LeMans and have booked up the ferry and the Camp site, but if I miss it, its no big deal there is the Eurohoon later in the year.
Take care
G
Which cam shaft profile have you opted for, with that supercharged engine Graham?
I've opted for the profile that delivers more performance at the lower end from what Dave was saying - I figure it will be more usable on the roads....that is when the camshaft fairies finally decide to deliver the components!
Al[/quote]
I decided to leave the profile selection to Daves best judgement. But it sounds like we have similar ideals, I don't want something peaky but would also rather have the lower down torque....I think the mid range rush is going to be quite enough.
Component supply is always a problem when there are a number of companies in the loop....Patience as they say is a virtue.....I just hope we dont miss this years summer....!!! I took a chance on LeMans and have booked up the ferry and the Camp site, but if I miss it, its no big deal there is the Eurohoon later in the year.
Take care
G
trackcar said:
Yeh I don't know when they're going to be taking orders, but apparently the development car has been running for several months now in final spec. I'll see if there's any more info available. The spray bars (of which there are two) spray both cams and the really neat bit is the electric primer pump which primes the *whole* engine including the cam cover spray bars *before* you start it up, as that's when 80% of all wear occurs it's protecting the whole engine not just the cams/followers.
Any news on this ???
cheers - Avalanche
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