Discussion
I fitted an accusump to my Tuscan about a year ago, and this might be of interest to you.
The accusump has to be fed with clean, filtered oil from a main pressure hose down stream of the oil pump. This is to prevent the natural debris in the oil from destroying the honed bore and internal seal of the accumulator. The Speed Six has an integral filter mounted on the engine block, so an additional, external high volume remote oil filter and associated pipe work had to be installed to protect the accusump (in an already tight engine bay).
I looked at a way round this, but unfortunately tapping into the block main oil gallery to access clean oil was not possible as the accusump needs be fed with 5/8" hose. The largest available outlet in the engine block is 1/8" which creates too much of a restriction. This would prevent the accumulator from making enough oil flow and pressure to prime the engine, particularly when the oil was cold and the oil thick.
Another problem I found was the sheer volume of oil needed to fully prime the Speed Six. High pressure oil is required to fill the main hoses and oil cooler, overcome the high losses of the enormous crank shaft and its 13 bearings, and finally defeat gravity to find its way to the valve train it the cylinder head.
To get this amount of oil into the engine I bought the largest accusump available. This had to be charged to about 50 psi which I discovered later would pose another problem. The Speed Six when hot only provides about 15psi (if you are lucky) at idle, and up to 45psi at high revs.This meant that to charge the accusump with enough oil for a cold start prime I had to hold the engine at high revs for as long as it took to fill up, which looks silly to onlookers and annoyed the neighbours!
If I started the car, reversed it out of the garage and then switched it off again, there wasn't enough oil in the accusump and the next time I started the engine there wasn't any pre-oil. This was also the case if I started the car from hot, went for a gentle drive, parked up and let the car cool down.
The only way that I manage to get an oil pressure reading before starting is to make sure it was filled while the engine was completely cold and still capable of making 65psi, and to only start the engine once. As a result of this, pre-oiling from the accusump is hit and miss and to get any oil pressure reading on the dash at all (which isn’t often), I always have to try to charge it up before turning off.
In other words, the Speed Six seems to need a lot of oil at high pressure to be pre-oiled, but ironically the Speed Six doesn’t produce a lot of oil at high pressure very often (only when very cold) so the number of occasions that it is capable of filling the accusump are very limited. I have an accusump fitted to a V8 (which always has good oil pressure) and it works well all of the time.
Basically, by the time I had bought the accusump, remote oil filter housing, adapters, solenoid valve, switch, hoses and installed it all, the parts bill alone was nearly £400 for something that had limited success and made a mess of the engine bay.
I would be interested to know how others get on with the accusump, and if they have encountered similar problems to me. As it is, I think an electric pump would probably be a better option as it would keep delivering oil to the engine until it is properly primed, and would always pre-oil regardless of oil temperature and driving conditions.
The accusump has to be fed with clean, filtered oil from a main pressure hose down stream of the oil pump. This is to prevent the natural debris in the oil from destroying the honed bore and internal seal of the accumulator. The Speed Six has an integral filter mounted on the engine block, so an additional, external high volume remote oil filter and associated pipe work had to be installed to protect the accusump (in an already tight engine bay).
I looked at a way round this, but unfortunately tapping into the block main oil gallery to access clean oil was not possible as the accusump needs be fed with 5/8" hose. The largest available outlet in the engine block is 1/8" which creates too much of a restriction. This would prevent the accumulator from making enough oil flow and pressure to prime the engine, particularly when the oil was cold and the oil thick.
Another problem I found was the sheer volume of oil needed to fully prime the Speed Six. High pressure oil is required to fill the main hoses and oil cooler, overcome the high losses of the enormous crank shaft and its 13 bearings, and finally defeat gravity to find its way to the valve train it the cylinder head.
To get this amount of oil into the engine I bought the largest accusump available. This had to be charged to about 50 psi which I discovered later would pose another problem. The Speed Six when hot only provides about 15psi (if you are lucky) at idle, and up to 45psi at high revs.This meant that to charge the accusump with enough oil for a cold start prime I had to hold the engine at high revs for as long as it took to fill up, which looks silly to onlookers and annoyed the neighbours!
If I started the car, reversed it out of the garage and then switched it off again, there wasn't enough oil in the accusump and the next time I started the engine there wasn't any pre-oil. This was also the case if I started the car from hot, went for a gentle drive, parked up and let the car cool down.
The only way that I manage to get an oil pressure reading before starting is to make sure it was filled while the engine was completely cold and still capable of making 65psi, and to only start the engine once. As a result of this, pre-oiling from the accusump is hit and miss and to get any oil pressure reading on the dash at all (which isn’t often), I always have to try to charge it up before turning off.
In other words, the Speed Six seems to need a lot of oil at high pressure to be pre-oiled, but ironically the Speed Six doesn’t produce a lot of oil at high pressure very often (only when very cold) so the number of occasions that it is capable of filling the accusump are very limited. I have an accusump fitted to a V8 (which always has good oil pressure) and it works well all of the time.
Basically, by the time I had bought the accusump, remote oil filter housing, adapters, solenoid valve, switch, hoses and installed it all, the parts bill alone was nearly £400 for something that had limited success and made a mess of the engine bay.
I would be interested to know how others get on with the accusump, and if they have encountered similar problems to me. As it is, I think an electric pump would probably be a better option as it would keep delivering oil to the engine until it is properly primed, and would always pre-oil regardless of oil temperature and driving conditions.
RH said:
...Another problem I found was the sheer volume of oil needed to fully prime the Speed Six. High pressure oil is required to fill the main hoses and oil cooler, overcome the high losses of the enormous crank shaft and its 13 bearings, and finally defeat gravity to find its way to the valve train it the cylinder head.
To get this amount of oil into the engine I bought the largest accusump available. This had to be charged to about 50 psi which I discovered later would pose another problem. The Speed Six when hot only provides about 15psi (if you are lucky) at idle, and up to 45psi at high revs.This meant that to charge the accusump with enough oil for a cold start prime I had to hold the engine at high revs for as long as it took to fill up, which looks silly to onlookers and annoyed the neighbours!
If I started the car, reversed it out of the garage and then switched it off again, there wasn't enough oil in the accusump and the next time I started the engine there wasn't any pre-oil. This was also the case if I started the car from hot, went for a gentle drive, parked up and let the car cool down.
The only way that I manage to get an oil pressure reading before starting is to make sure it was filled while the engine was completely cold and still capable of making 65psi, and to only start the engine once. As a result of this, pre-oiling from the accusump is hit and miss and to get any oil pressure reading on the dash at all (which isn’t often), I always have to try to charge it up before turning off...
Very interesting and informative - thanks for sharing your experience To get this amount of oil into the engine I bought the largest accusump available. This had to be charged to about 50 psi which I discovered later would pose another problem. The Speed Six when hot only provides about 15psi (if you are lucky) at idle, and up to 45psi at high revs.This meant that to charge the accusump with enough oil for a cold start prime I had to hold the engine at high revs for as long as it took to fill up, which looks silly to onlookers and annoyed the neighbours!
If I started the car, reversed it out of the garage and then switched it off again, there wasn't enough oil in the accusump and the next time I started the engine there wasn't any pre-oil. This was also the case if I started the car from hot, went for a gentle drive, parked up and let the car cool down.
The only way that I manage to get an oil pressure reading before starting is to make sure it was filled while the engine was completely cold and still capable of making 65psi, and to only start the engine once. As a result of this, pre-oiling from the accusump is hit and miss and to get any oil pressure reading on the dash at all (which isn’t often), I always have to try to charge it up before turning off...
Maybe a simple answer would be do to away with the ignition-feed to the solenoid valve and just have a manual switch on the dash.
You could key-on, flick the switch and watch the accumulated oil pressurise the system on the dash display, then start the engine from cold.
The engine could be revved (gently!) and the pressure would rise to the required 60-or-so p.s.i.
The solenoid could then be closed with the switch. This would store the pressure, and would not have to be activated again until the next cold start.
The advantage of the above would be the oil in the accumulator would be both cold and pressurised. Assuming the seal of the solenoid valve is tip-top, this would be held indefinitely.
If the oil is hot when the accumulator is filled, the pressure would drop as the oil cools.
I know the above is not automatic and relies on the driver to follow a set sequence, but it's not exactly a 'jump-in-and-thrash' car is it? And any owner who would go to the trouble of fitting such a system would no doubt remember - it could even add to the 'start up' experience.
Any thoughts?
Neill
Sounds a bit like James May trying to start that Aston Race Car on Top Gear a few weeks ago! Didnt they end up pushing him off the ferry as he couldnt remember the sequence to start the car.
although is certainly a good way to make sure the girlfriend/wife never borrows it!
Personally I would wait and save your money for an all in one unit that has been researched and developed over the last 3 or so years rather than making one in the back shed that certainly would put me off if i was buying your car second hand!
only my 2p tho?
although is certainly a good way to make sure the girlfriend/wife never borrows it!
Personally I would wait and save your money for an all in one unit that has been researched and developed over the last 3 or so years rather than making one in the back shed that certainly would put me off if i was buying your car second hand!
only my 2p tho?
WISHY said:
Sounds a bit like James May trying to start that Aston Race Car on Top Gear a few weeks ago! Didnt they end up pushing him off the ferry as he couldnt remember the sequence to start the car.
although is certainly a good way to make sure the girlfriend/wife never borrows it!
Not really - the worst that would happen if you forgot to do it would be a 'pre-accumate' start.although is certainly a good way to make sure the girlfriend/wife never borrows it!
WISHY said:
Personally I would wait and save your money for an all in one unit that has been researched and developed over the last 3 or so years rather than making one in the back shed that certainly would put me off if i was buying your car second hand!
My ramblings in the previous post were merely a possible solution to the problems mentioned.Agree about a fully researched / developed system - however there isn't one!
Certainly not one that's proven to eliminate top-end failure.
In the mean time, I certainly wouldn't be put off if the installation was neat and the effect noticable. I for one wince at the amount of time it takes for my engine to fire from cold (as the ECU won't allow a start until it sees oil pressure>zero).
At least people are trying new things - no new solutions would exist if everyone just waited for one to appear!
nelly1 said:
Targarama said:
How much would it cost/how complicated would it be to install an engine pre-heater thingyumy that pumped warm oil around the main gubbins and warmed things up before starting?
Could you rephrase that in less technical terms please?
YI8TVR said:
If a cut out switch was installed to stop the engine firing and you then turned the engine over on the key, is this not a simple pre oiling system that has the same effect.
A pre oiler for £50.00.
The ECU stops the engine firing until the oil pressure is up, hence the slightly A pre oiler for £50.00.
extended cranking times!I`m a big hobbiest software/hardware engineer and I always wondered would it be possible to fit a cheap spray bar above the engine.
The idea would be to syphon off a little oil (~250ml) when the engine is first cranked (as the PSI is high) and then store this. When the engine is restarted simply release this over the spray bar and repeat.
This would allow the top-end to be showered in oil from the very start..
Now, I`m not engine expert (big notive to be honest) so this might not work.. but i`m waiting on why from some gurus
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
interesting insight to accusump sludge here .. seems they need stripping and cleaning out every 2000 miles or so?
interesting insight to accusump sludge here .. seems they need stripping and cleaning out every 2000 miles or so?
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