The results are in: S6 reliability
Discussion
J_S_G said:
edited to add: Im sure theres a PH'er out there (Graham something?) with seven or eight rebuilds that need to be added to the chart too, unless hes come forward and I have missed it. That scared me, BIG TIME!!!
Yeah, I definitely remember there being someone on here with 5+ rebuilds. Patience of a saint. Car of the devil.
yeah I know a graham who's had like 5 rebuilds or something .. a friend of mine bought an EX demo car from a TVR dealer ..the car had 3 rebuilds i think (one lasted all of nine days) then when it was sold it blew up again for the next owner
I've also heard that the quickest an engine has blown up was backing it of the transporter at a Midlands dealer .. just pushed it straight back on again!
However having said that, .. er - can't think of anything to put now ..
Ben CA .. a plague of a thousand camels on all those people having a go at you ..
Joo.
daftlad said:
Agreed, that is a complete bag of wank, if ever there was a car that would be treated correctly it's a TVR, every fecker and his dog will mention reliability so no one buys these things without some anticipation of being mechanically sympathetic.
I'm not generalising, unlike your good self. What was said was that TVR are not the only people to blame for SP6 engines going bang. Similarly, I did not say that owwners were the only reason. But I consider the following and conclude that owners may have had some small input.
Some owners aren't aware the car needs very careful warming up.
Some are quite happy to rag cars after the 1000 mile sevrice - cos they believe them to be run in then.
An small elenment that rev the nuts off the cars when cold so someone can hear their new exhaust....and try to prove it sounds every bit as musical as a V8
Some owners who do not know when to check the engine oil level - hot or cold.
No disrespect, nbut your good old V8 with many many years of development and 65 BHP per litre may take some of the above abuse, a SP6 with a lot less development years and close to 100 BHP per litre may protest.
No doubt I will be flamed for the above, but its true and I've seen examples of the above first hand many times.
>> Edited by daftlad on Thursday 9th September 07:22
If an engine can't survivie this abuse it has no place in a *production* car .. fortunately if rumours are true we won't have to put up with it any longer
daftlad said:
No disrespect, nbut your good old V8 with many many years of development and 65 BHP per litre may take some of the above abuse, a SP6 with a lot less development years and close to 100 BHP per litre may protest.
Thats a fair comment, folks accept the fact that as customers they are doing some of the development work for TVR as they drive their cars, but two big issues still seem to be unresolved.
1. Whats the cure to stop them going pop now sufficient numbers of cars have gone bang.
2. when buying a TVR you accept your 'developement' role, but I for one certainly wouldnt want to have to pay out thousands of pounds for the privellege(sp)!
daftlad said:
Agreed, that is a complete bag of wank, if ever there was a car that would be treated correctly it's a TVR, every fecker and his dog will mention reliability so no one buys these things without some anticipation of being mechanically sympathetic.
I'm not generalising, unlike your good self. What was said was that TVR are not the only people to blame for SP6 engines going bang. Similarly, I did not say that owwners were the only reason. But I consider the following and conclude that owners may have had some small input.
Some owners aren't aware the car needs very careful warming up.
Some are quite happy to rag cars after the 1000 mile sevrice - cos they believe them to be run in then.
An small elenment that rev the nuts off the cars when cold so someone can hear their new exhaust....and try to prove it sounds every bit as musical as a V8
Some owners who do not know when to check the engine oil level - hot or cold.
No disrespect, nbut your good old V8 with many many years of development and 65 BHP per litre may take some of the above abuse, a SP6 with a lot less development years and close to 100 BHP per litre may protest.
No doubt I will be flamed for the above, but its true and I've seen examples of the above first hand many times.
>> Edited by daftlad on Thursday 9th September 07:22
and why should they know exactly ? Where in the manual does it have 10 pages in red bold saying 'you must do this or your engine will blow up'. It mentions in passing that you should wait for the engine to get to 45 or so before giving it full revs. thats the lot.
So, I would contend that your point in completely invalid from a legal point of view.
People expect it to be like any other car (and rightly so... 100hp per litre...yippy dippy doo da.. the list of engines that do this must be into triple figures now even without VVT/etc)
So, sorry, but I just don't follow your point. If anything, the people that are on pistonheads are the enthusiasts... the ones who know about mech. sympathy, etc.
And anyway... worn dodgy finger followers, worn valves and head gaskets.. 3 main reasons of failure... what exactly have they got it to with mistreating the engine ? nowt.
stu
powerlord said:
and why should they know exactly ? Where in the manual does it have 10 pages in red bold saying 'you must do this or your engine will blow up'. It mentions in passing that you should wait for the engine to get to 45 or so before giving it full revs. thats the lot.
So, I would contend that your point in completely invalid from a legal point of view.
People expect it to be like any other car (and rightly so... 100hp per litre...yippy dippy doo da.. the list of engines that do this must be into triple figures now even without VVT/etc)
So, sorry, but I just don't follow your point. If anything, the people that are on pistonheads are the enthusiasts... the ones who know about mech. sympathy, etc.
And anyway... worn dodgy finger followers, worn valves and head gaskets.. 3 main reasons of failure... what exactly have they got it to with mistreating the engine ? nowt.
stu
Stu,
I'm not trying to defend the engine at all costs. I am atempting to give a point of view from someone without an axe to grind. (it may change if my SP6 engine goes bang, but so far, its been fine and has been used quite enthusiastically)
But...to take your points one by one:
It informs you in the correct section of the handbook about the warming up procedure , and it is quite specific.
The list of engines in a production car with a 100BHP per litre is still quite an elite class.
One can be enthusiastic about a product without fully understanding it, and the results can be expensive.
As I don't understand the failure mode wrt finger followers and valves, I cant comment. Head gaskets failing can indeed be the result of mistreating and engine.
daftlad said:
Stu,
I'm not trying to defend the engine at all costs. I am atempting to give a point of view from someone without an axe to grind. (it may change if my SP6 engine goes bang, but so far, its been fine and has been used quite enthusiastically)
But...to take your points one by one:
It informs you in the correct section of the handbook about the warming up procedure , and it is quite specific.
no more than it's specific about checking oil (which I'm sure you don't follow as it is not the procedure most do.. need to be a bit quicker than that.
From memory its something like 'don't give it full revs before 45 degrees oil'. that's it. nothing about letting it warm up before driving, etc, etc.
So, no not very specific at all actually.
daftlad said:
The list of engines in a production car with a 100BHP per litre is still quite an elite class.
is it now... don't think so. Apart from it not actually being 100 anyway. standard 360.. so about 90.
I really can't be bothered trying for a list here.. but it would include:
hondas vtecs (120hp/litre now), bmw m series, 350z, many toyotas, some renault engines, even a few ford ones.
As I said.. it's extensive. And that's just normally aspirated ones.
Perhaps a comparison with bike engines is more appropriate ? (dry sump, etc):
oh.. the suzuki produces 180hp from a litre. ah....
daftlad said:
One can be enthusiastic about a product without fully understanding it, and the results can be expensive.
I think you could safely say that all the engines above belong to cars where the owners are less likely to be enthusiasts (and have the mech sympathy).. they don't blow up. bottom line is it's just crap. Sure, bouncing an engine of the red line when cold is bad. excess wear car result. It might need a rebuild at 60-100K. not blow up at <12k. just nonsense.
daftlad said:
As I don't understand the failure mode wrt finger followers and valves, I cant comment. Head gaskets failing can indeed be the result of mistreating and engine.
how exactly ? head gaskets go when the engine overheats. If mistreating means not putting any oil or water in it I agree... if it means ragging it whenever, then nope... you've lost me there. total nonesense.
stu
I am a bit disturbed due to the venom in some of the posts. We all knew the S6 was potentially fragile, that TVR just isnt big enough to do all the testing the automotive giants do. Did we not all go into this with our eyes open? How many cars have the attributes of a Tuscan S? And how much do they cost?
For those who only do 5K miles per year or less, which seems typical for Tuscan owners, approx three years between rebuilds(and apparently getting better as TVR tackle the problem). Rebuild cost, to date, seems to be approx 2K for those with a full TVR service history.
Well if someone had said to me that the head needs refurbishing every three years at a cost of less than 3K I would have been perfectly happy as the characteristics of the S version of the S6 are fantastic; Torque, power and, believe it or not, economy when cruising.
OK, those whose engines have failed at very low mileages might be p1ssed off, but generally it costs them nothing to get it fixed. So just how bad is the situation? TVRs are enthusiasts cars arnt they?
For those who only do 5K miles per year or less, which seems typical for Tuscan owners, approx three years between rebuilds(and apparently getting better as TVR tackle the problem). Rebuild cost, to date, seems to be approx 2K for those with a full TVR service history.
Well if someone had said to me that the head needs refurbishing every three years at a cost of less than 3K I would have been perfectly happy as the characteristics of the S version of the S6 are fantastic; Torque, power and, believe it or not, economy when cruising.
OK, those whose engines have failed at very low mileages might be p1ssed off, but generally it costs them nothing to get it fixed. So just how bad is the situation? TVRs are enthusiasts cars arnt they?
s2art said:
I am a bit disturbed due to the venom in some of the posts. We all knew the S6 was potentially fragile, that TVR just isnt big enough to do all the testing the automotive giants do. Did we not all go into this with our eyes open? How many cars have the attributes of a Tuscan S? And how much do they cost?
For those who only do 5K miles per year or less, which seems typical for Tuscan owners, approx three years between rebuilds(and apparently getting better as TVR tackle the problem). Rebuild cost, to date, seems to be approx 2K for those with a full TVR service history.
Well if someone had said to me that the head needs refurbishing every three years at a cost of less than 3K I would have been perfectly happy as the characteristics of the S version of the S6 are fantastic; Torque, power and, believe it or not, economy when cruising.
OK, those whose engines have failed at very low mileages might be p1ssed off, but generally it costs them nothing to get it fixed. So just how bad is the situation? TVRs are enthusiasts cars arnt they?
Latest I have heard is 6K for a rebuild + 12 weeks off the road.
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