Speed Six engine options,quick poll

[sideways mostly]

justinbaker said:

What he said!

[Boosted Ls1]

JR said:

transplants.com said: Assuming there was a 2.5k differential between the options below: transplants.com said: i) SP6 + strengthened T5 main shafts ii) SBC + tremac tko iii) SBC,LSX + tremac tko So going off internet prices that's i) £17K+ gearbox stuff say £18K ii) Say £10+/-£2K iii) Say £13+/-£2K hardly a 2.5 price difference whichever way you fiddle it. Purely on engines option one is lightest, has the most power, has the block designed for the car and is defiantly British so it would be surprising if it weren't a clear winner. Paying for it and running costs is another matter altogether.

How did you get to those prices? Is it really £17k plus box for an SP6 etc? The SP6 can't compare to a similar specced lsx. It's at it's limits already and anything else being done to it is probably a major change, whereas the lsx is a fresh design and there are major developments in the pipe line including quad cams or factory superchargers. The ls1/6 were just tasters to wet the appetite The lsx will be the new 'kid on the block' for a long time. The speed 6 will stay as, well the speed 6 and most people not on here have never heard of one of those. It has it's merits, it has it's flaws and I don't think it's ever going to be the way forward based on a pound for pound evaluation or on performance. Sure, it's part of the car and some will want to keep it that way and that's how it should be for some owners. They can enjoy the car as tvr intended.

Boosted.

[JR]

Boosted Ls1 said:

JR said: transplants.com said: Assuming there was a 2.5k differential between the options below: (1) bullet proof TVR 500hp Speed six (2) 450hp iorn small block Chev (3) 405hp lsx alloy block Chev i) SP6 + strengthened T5 main shafts ii) SBC + tremac tko iii) SBC,LSX + tremac tko So going off internet prices that's i) £17K+ gearbox stuff say £18K ii) Say £10+/-£2K iii) Say £13+/-£2K hardly a 2.5 price difference whichever way you fiddle it. Purely on engines option one is lightest, has the most power, has the block designed for the car and is defiantly British so it would be surprising if it weren't a clear winner. Paying for it and running costs is another matter altogether. How did you get to those prices? Is it really £17k plus box for an SP6 etc?

That one was the easiest to estimate since it is the only one advertised for sale that I know of. Posted quite a few times by the owner:- www.pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=19548
ii) is a stab at Speed8s price (yet to be announced) but we know that it will be less than £14K and more than £6K
iii) is based on ii)
ii) and iii) are for new engines whereas i) is a refurbed block otherwise you'd better put i) over £20K. I guess that you could estime ii) and iii) a lot more accurately.

Boosted Ls1 said:

The SP6 can't compare to a similar specced lsx. It's at it's limits already and anything else being done to it is probably a major change, whereas the lsx is a fresh design and there are major developments in the pipe line including quad cams or factory superchargers. The ls1/6 were just tasters to wet the appetite The lsx will be the new 'kid on the block' for a long time. The speed 6 will stay as, well the speed 6 and most people not on here have never heard of one of those. It has it's merits, it has it's flaws and I don't think it's ever going to be the way forward based on a pound for pound evaluation or on performance. Sure, it's part of the car and some will want to keep it that way and that's how it should be for some owners. They can enjoy the car as tvr intended. Boosted.

I suppose that we can call supercharging a major change. Quad cam LSx? Hmmm.

[Boosted Ls1]

Interesting. I reckon a custom built specced 400-450 hp lsx would cost £7k plus, a mappable ecu with traction/launch control, data logging and harness £1500 tops. Make that a 427/ls7 (7 litre or bigger) ls7 or Darton MID and it would cost £10-11k for engine plus ecu etc at £1500 tops. Gearboxes start at around £1100 depending on what you choose. Then there's labour! I have ls7 stuff coming out of my ears at the moment but heck it'll pass!

Boosted.

[yzf1070]

[/quote]
That one was the easiest to estimate since it is the only one advertised for sale that I know of. Posted quite a few times by the owner:- www.pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=19548
[/quote]

I WANT TO MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR.....IT IS NOT FOR SALE AND NEVER HAS BEEN, its not even on the road yet.

May I also add that the cost 17K is purely an estimate right now, I have been adding to the mods as we have gone along, I want a properly sorted S6 not an off the shelf components repair with a blower stuck on it, which IMO will last all of a few thousand miles. My engine is being totally rebuilt with just about every single internal component being replaced with custom parts...that was my choice and based on the best advice from TVRCraft after they stripped and inspected the state of my engine.
Craft I am sure can provide estimated prices but I believe that every S6 engine will require a strip down inspection in order to identify the real state of the internal components. TVR seem to have had a bit of a nightmare in the quality of their supplied components. For example my engine has the cast crank.....Craft sent it away for tufriding, the pre-inspection tests revealed that the standard crank was not even hardned....Also take a look at the thread regarding the Pistons and Rods......Just look at the size of the TVR supplied rod, little end and compare it to the Carillo rod. The TVR little end has a huge mass....NOT good.
Whilst Craft have loads of experience in building force induced engines, my S6 is the first that they have supercharged and it is a learning curve for them. They will be in a better position to provide accurate costs after mine has rolled out.....SOON.
One thing I am certain of; Craft will not rush a job or do a half baked charger mod just to make the bucks and see an engine go bang sometime soon after, they are in this business for the long term. Again I repeat...they stripped my motor and advised me along the way on what was the best route to take based on my requirements I gave to them.....I wanted to take every option to avoid my motor being pulled out again for a rebuild.
They are the engineers and will advise, in the end its down to you and the size of your budget to decide what you want to do. You have to see that such HP improvements on the already high performance S6 will never come along cheap.

I hope this provides a better picture for those seriously considering either the V8 tuned or S6 charger option.

Regards to all
G

[JR]

Nice post yzf1070. It never crossed my mind that people would interpret my post as meaning that your car is for sale. Sorry if that gave you a shock! Your project really does sound fantastic.

For those confused: it’s the engine conversion that is for sale through TVRCraft www.tvrcraft.com/

Jonathan

[yzf1070]

JR said:

Nice post yzf1070. It never crossed my mind that people would interpret my post as meaning that your car is for sale. Sorry if that gave you a shock! Your project really does sound fantastic. For those confused: it’s the engine conversion that is for sale through TVRCraft www.tvrcraft.com/ Jonathan

Cheers JR,

No worries mate....I was panicin incase it was on ebay or the likes before I have even seen it.....

[MarkoTVR]

As much as I love that V8 noise and the proven track record of the V8s mentioned here, it'd have to be the Speed Six option. Just to keep that TVR experience 'undiluted'.

[TVRED]

11111111111111111111111111111111111111

[sirox]

Daftlad said:

Speed 6. With the current manufacturers claimed output would be fine for me.

For me too. The current 365/380 bhp output is more than enough for me.

[DJC]

Well this thread has become interesting again now that certain information has come to light...namely the existence of 4.2 and 5ltr NA Speed Sixes. The 5ltr "pushing 100bhp/ltr" was the answer to the obvious question. "Er lots" was the answer to the next obvious question, "er, ok, top of my head figures, probably looking at about £15k" was the answer to a more probing version. I dont think that figure included all the extra work to the car that would need doing though We are all aware I presume of the 450horses rating of the box, so that would have to go. Throw away most of the suspension and rebuild it.

[RichardD]

DJC said:

Well this thread has become interesting again now that certain information has come to light...namely the existence of 4.2 and 5ltr NA Speed Sixes. The 5ltr "pushing 100bhp/ltr" was the answer to the obvious question. "Er lots" was the answer to the next obvious question, "er, ok, top of my head figures, probably looking at about £15k" was the answer to a more probing version. I dont think that figure included all the extra work to the car that would need doing though We are all aware I presume of the 450horses rating of the box, so that would have to go. Throw away most of the suspension and rebuild it.

5.0 from a 6 pot, that's a lot of cc per cylinder !!
Any information on how the extra capacity was achieved, ie extra stroke or bore or mixture?
Isn't gearbox ability down to torque, T5 could be OK, but risky, and seems the TKO600 doesn't have the CR option of the T5.

[DJC]

RichardD said:

DJC said: Well this thread has become interesting again now that certain information has come to light...namely the existence of 4.2 and 5ltr NA Speed Sixes. The 5ltr "pushing 100bhp/ltr" was the answer to the obvious question. "Er lots" was the answer to the next obvious question, "er, ok, top of my head figures, probably looking at about £15k" was the answer to a more probing version. I dont think that figure included all the extra work to the car that would need doing though We are all aware I presume of the 450horses rating of the box, so that would have to go. Throw away most of the suspension and rebuild it. 5.0 from a 6 pot, that's a lot of cc per cylinder !! Any information on how the extra capacity was achieved, ie extra stroke or bore or mixture? Isn't gearbox ability down to torque, T5 could be OK, but risky, and seems the TKO600 doesn't have the CR option of the T5.

Er, ish, but Ive got reasons for saying no more for now. Email me in a cpl of weeks and I might be able to say more.

[rpa.janwell]

DJC said:

RichardD said: DJC said: Well this thread has become interesting again now that certain information has come to light...namely the existence of 4.2 and 5ltr NA Speed Sixes. The 5ltr "pushing 100bhp/ltr" was the answer to the obvious question. "Er lots" was the answer to the next obvious question, "er, ok, top of my head figures, probably looking at about £15k" was the answer to a more probing version. I dont think that figure included all the extra work to the car that would need doing though We are all aware I presume of the 450horses rating of the box, so that would have to go. Throw away most of the suspension and rebuild it. 5.0 from a 6 pot, that's a lot of cc per cylinder !! Any information on how the extra capacity was achieved, ie extra stroke or bore or mixture? Isn't gearbox ability down to torque, T5 could be OK, but risky, and seems the TKO600 doesn't have the CR option of the T5. Er, ish, but Ive got reasons for saying no more for now. Email me in a cpl of weeks and I might be able to say more.

What are you up to now??!!

[DJC]

rpa.janwell said:

DJC said: RichardD said: DJC said: Well this thread has become interesting again now that certain information has come to light...namely the existence of 4.2 and 5ltr NA Speed Sixes. The 5ltr "pushing 100bhp/ltr" was the answer to the obvious question. "Er lots" was the answer to the next obvious question, "er, ok, top of my head figures, probably looking at about £15k" was the answer to a more probing version. I dont think that figure included all the extra work to the car that would need doing though We are all aware I presume of the 450horses rating of the box, so that would have to go. Throw away most of the suspension and rebuild it. 5.0 from a 6 pot, that's a lot of cc per cylinder !! Any information on how the extra capacity was achieved, ie extra stroke or bore or mixture? Isn't gearbox ability down to torque, T5 could be OK, but risky, and seems the TKO600 doesn't have the CR option of the T5. Er, ish, but Ive got reasons for saying no more for now. Email me in a cpl of weeks and I might be able to say more. What are you up to now??!!

Wait and see.

[_deejay_]

I thought it was common knowledge about the 4.2 speed six? Either Lawrence T's 400r had one, or the Le Mans cars did. From what I remember, the t440 was to have a 4.2, and the Typhon a 4 litre?

5 litres does seem a tad large though (I heard that 4.2 was the biggest they'd ever go with the speed 6).

D

[RichardD]

DJC said:

Er, ish, but Ive got reasons for saying no more for now. Email me in a cpl of weeks and I might be able to say more.

Thanks, will stay posted for developments

[yzf1070]

_deejay_ said:

I thought it was common knowledge about the 4.2 speed six? Either Lawrence T's 400r had one, or the Le Mans cars did. From what I remember, the t440 was to have a 4.2, and the Typhon a 4 litre? 5 litres does seem a tad large though (I heard that 4.2 was the biggest they'd ever go with the speed 6). D

5 litres..... blimey if the bore is increased I sure hope they change those rods out and properly balance the bottom end....thats gonna be some mass spinning around at 7000+ rpm.

The T440 was to be marketed with a 4.2, I don't honestly know if it was or was not. The Typhon was to be supercharged, but with what capacity I have no idea. I did learn that the supercharger failed miserably for reasons I mentioned elsewhere. But I do believe that right now the S6 from TVR has a very limited life expectancy given the recent comments from TVR.

Just for discussion sake consider this...TVR claim they want to market models further afield i.e. the middle and far east. Whilst I am not exactly sure if these regions are tied to the same stringent emmissions laws as just about everywhere else where such a market may exist on this globe. BUT the S6 in its current form will fail to meet the existing revised regulations and it is for this reason that I reckon the end of the S6 is nigh. Sure TVR could make it comply, but the result will be some 100bhp or there abouts less. Kind of kill off the whole TVR image appeal that would....

Therefore I suspect that we will very soon see a move from the S6 and TVR embarking on ventures new with regards to power plants. Which comes to the point that certain parts for the S6 seem to be more scarce these days.....now why could that be...are they trying to source more reliable manufacturers/suppliers....or running production down? Time will tell on that.

Just my view on it all...

Regards
G