The problem of young male drivers
Discussion
We all know that according to the stats, the highest risk drivers are young males and that this is not so much because of their lack of car control skills or even inexperience, since both those factors applies to all new drivers, including young females. No, the primary risk factor is their attitude to risk, coupled with the need to prove themselves, especially amongst their peer group.
This being the case and since our son is home from Uni at present (and has his 21st birthday this week) I asked him for his views on what, practically, could be done to improve matters. He’s raced karts since about 12, was driving on private tracks since before his 17th birthday and could barely wait to get on the road. I did most of the driving tuition, trying to ensure he understood the fundamentals of advanced driving, while a driving instructor prepared him for the test itself. Once he’d passed (2nd attempt), he took his Pass Plus and then bought a Ford Ka with his savings and we waited to see how many advanced skills had sunk in!
Now, I would describe our son as an intelligent and responsible(ish) young person but I’d guess that many of us only have to think back to when we were that age to shudder at the risks we took! He has survived his first 4 years of driving with two or three minor mishaps but no serious incidents. They were mishaps, however, that his older sister avoided in her driving career and they stemmed from a mixture of inexperience (failing to anticipate other drivers’ mistakes) and pushing his / his car’s limits. I was also fairly shocked to hear of some of the near misses he had had in his first year of driving, typically when having a go with friends, rather than aggressive driving towards other road users.
So what would he, as a mature 21 year old, suggest should be done? Firstly, he doesn’t see putting the driving age up to 21 as an option: young people need mobility just as much as the rest of us. What could be done, however, is to broaden the driving instruction and the test to include modules on driver attitudes and risk management. At present, the curriculum covers only basic driving skills and the highway code. There is nothing at all about how accidents happen, the importance of being aware of your own attitude as a driver towards other road users or awareness of those factors that influence a young person to take risks, such as showing off to mates or taking (imagined) offence at other drivers. In other words, the psychology of driving. (Did I mention that he’s a psychology student?) Young people (men) need to be made aware of these things and also of the consequences of aggressive driving in terms of the financial and emotional costs of getting it wrong.
Obviously, this will not fix the problem but it does strike me as positive step forward that could save some tragedies. Personally, I wonder if 18 isn’t a better age to start driving that 17 but I wouldn’t have thought so at the time!
What do people think?
This being the case and since our son is home from Uni at present (and has his 21st birthday this week) I asked him for his views on what, practically, could be done to improve matters. He’s raced karts since about 12, was driving on private tracks since before his 17th birthday and could barely wait to get on the road. I did most of the driving tuition, trying to ensure he understood the fundamentals of advanced driving, while a driving instructor prepared him for the test itself. Once he’d passed (2nd attempt), he took his Pass Plus and then bought a Ford Ka with his savings and we waited to see how many advanced skills had sunk in!
Now, I would describe our son as an intelligent and responsible(ish) young person but I’d guess that many of us only have to think back to when we were that age to shudder at the risks we took! He has survived his first 4 years of driving with two or three minor mishaps but no serious incidents. They were mishaps, however, that his older sister avoided in her driving career and they stemmed from a mixture of inexperience (failing to anticipate other drivers’ mistakes) and pushing his / his car’s limits. I was also fairly shocked to hear of some of the near misses he had had in his first year of driving, typically when having a go with friends, rather than aggressive driving towards other road users.
So what would he, as a mature 21 year old, suggest should be done? Firstly, he doesn’t see putting the driving age up to 21 as an option: young people need mobility just as much as the rest of us. What could be done, however, is to broaden the driving instruction and the test to include modules on driver attitudes and risk management. At present, the curriculum covers only basic driving skills and the highway code. There is nothing at all about how accidents happen, the importance of being aware of your own attitude as a driver towards other road users or awareness of those factors that influence a young person to take risks, such as showing off to mates or taking (imagined) offence at other drivers. In other words, the psychology of driving. (Did I mention that he’s a psychology student?) Young people (men) need to be made aware of these things and also of the consequences of aggressive driving in terms of the financial and emotional costs of getting it wrong.
Obviously, this will not fix the problem but it does strike me as positive step forward that could save some tragedies. Personally, I wonder if 18 isn’t a better age to start driving that 17 but I wouldn’t have thought so at the time!
What do people think?
I'm a young male driver. I'm 19 now and fortunately havn't been involved in a collision. Had a few parking bumps, but nothing involving a moving vehicle.
I don't purposely take risks, although I have, through inexperience made a few overtaking manouevres, that could of ended up badly, one I can remember was mis judging a vehicles length and not initiating the overtake with enough speed. But I have learnt from them and not had any repeat incidents.
I also tend to drive faster with friends in the car, not necasarily more dangerously, but at an increased pace, probably due to the fact I have a more powerful car than most of my friends and like to show it off a bit.
I spend a lot of time observing my friends attitudes towards driving. It ussualy matches their personality. Two of my friends from college, one 18, the other 22. They are both sensible, nice lads, with nothing to prove, they get a lot of respect from the other class mates and are hard working. They both drive sensibly and have never heard them boasting about their driving encounters, maybe due to the fact that they both drive 1.2 Corsas, so have nothing to boast about! But they are not as high risk as a lot of male drivers!
Some other boys from my class, wouldn't class them as friends, but. There is one lad who is your stereotypical chav, aggressive behaviour, lack of respect for authority and general care-free attitude. I regularly have to encounter tales of him driving his Fiesta Zetec-S at 135MPH and still going, because it wasn't hitting the limter (Yawn) and "I raced this Civic Type-R, smoked him down this hill by the roundabout, its a 2 litre Turbo innit!"
There is another lad, who is the type that was bought up in a good family with a wealthy background, but going through a rebelious stage and it shows through his driving, he actually said to one of the first lads I mentioned. "Which way are you going home? I'll race you!" I couldn't believe he actually said it, I asked him what he said, he repeated it. I just walked off laughing! He also drives like a twunt and drives with his fog lights on. He has a write off to his name in the first month of driving. A Daewoo Matiz!
I'm no saint. I regularly speed, but with good judgement in good conditions. I occasionally make a few bad decisions. Which is why I've just joined the IAM to hopefully help me further.
I don't think raising the age limit to 18 will help, 16-21 year old having varying levels of maturity. I'd rather have some 16 year old on the road than some 20+ men I know. A passenger ban will most definately help, but this is unfair on the young drivers that do not show off in front of their mates. The same with the curfew on young drivers. Most young males go out at night just for the sake of it, so putting a curfew on them may help, but again extremely unfair on the ones doing no harm.
I'd suggest, more Police Patrols or CCTV in areas prone to incidents with young males and introducing short driving bans and car confiscation to offenders. I know what its like to be without a car shortly after passing my test, when I hydrolocked my engine. I'm sure if they realised they could be without their cars for a few weeks, they may think twice. I think half of the incidents wouldn't happen, if they realised they couldn't get away with it. Instead the opposite happens, they think they can get away with it and because they havn't been caught, the concequences are ussually fatal.
ETA: A passenger BAN will help.
I don't purposely take risks, although I have, through inexperience made a few overtaking manouevres, that could of ended up badly, one I can remember was mis judging a vehicles length and not initiating the overtake with enough speed. But I have learnt from them and not had any repeat incidents.
I also tend to drive faster with friends in the car, not necasarily more dangerously, but at an increased pace, probably due to the fact I have a more powerful car than most of my friends and like to show it off a bit.
I spend a lot of time observing my friends attitudes towards driving. It ussualy matches their personality. Two of my friends from college, one 18, the other 22. They are both sensible, nice lads, with nothing to prove, they get a lot of respect from the other class mates and are hard working. They both drive sensibly and have never heard them boasting about their driving encounters, maybe due to the fact that they both drive 1.2 Corsas, so have nothing to boast about! But they are not as high risk as a lot of male drivers!
Some other boys from my class, wouldn't class them as friends, but. There is one lad who is your stereotypical chav, aggressive behaviour, lack of respect for authority and general care-free attitude. I regularly have to encounter tales of him driving his Fiesta Zetec-S at 135MPH and still going, because it wasn't hitting the limter (Yawn) and "I raced this Civic Type-R, smoked him down this hill by the roundabout, its a 2 litre Turbo innit!"
There is another lad, who is the type that was bought up in a good family with a wealthy background, but going through a rebelious stage and it shows through his driving, he actually said to one of the first lads I mentioned. "Which way are you going home? I'll race you!" I couldn't believe he actually said it, I asked him what he said, he repeated it. I just walked off laughing! He also drives like a twunt and drives with his fog lights on. He has a write off to his name in the first month of driving. A Daewoo Matiz!
I'm no saint. I regularly speed, but with good judgement in good conditions. I occasionally make a few bad decisions. Which is why I've just joined the IAM to hopefully help me further.
I don't think raising the age limit to 18 will help, 16-21 year old having varying levels of maturity. I'd rather have some 16 year old on the road than some 20+ men I know. A passenger ban will most definately help, but this is unfair on the young drivers that do not show off in front of their mates. The same with the curfew on young drivers. Most young males go out at night just for the sake of it, so putting a curfew on them may help, but again extremely unfair on the ones doing no harm.
I'd suggest, more Police Patrols or CCTV in areas prone to incidents with young males and introducing short driving bans and car confiscation to offenders. I know what its like to be without a car shortly after passing my test, when I hydrolocked my engine. I'm sure if they realised they could be without their cars for a few weeks, they may think twice. I think half of the incidents wouldn't happen, if they realised they couldn't get away with it. Instead the opposite happens, they think they can get away with it and because they havn't been caught, the concequences are ussually fatal.
ETA: A passenger BAN will help.
Edited by Ricky_M on Sunday 23 March 20:22
Ricky_M said:
I'm a young male driver. I'm 19 now and fortunately havn't been involved in a collision. Had a few parking bumps, but nothing involving a moving vehicle.
I don't purposely take risks, although I have, through inexperience made a few overtaking manouevres, that could of ended up badly, one I can remember was mis judging a vehicles length and not initiating the overtake with enough speed. But I have learnt from them and not had any repeat incidents.
I also tend to drive faster with friends in the car, not necasarily more dangerously, but at an increased pace, probably due to the fact I have a more powerful car than most of my friends and like to show it off a bit.
I spend a lot of time observing my friends attitudes towards driving. It ussualy matches their personality. Two of my friends from college, one 18, the other 22. They are both sensible, nice lads, with nothing to prove, they get a lot of respect from the other class mates and are hard working. They both drive sensibly and have never heard them boasting about their driving encounters, maybe due to the fact that they both drive 1.2 Corsas, so have nothing to boast about! But they are not as high risk as a lot of male drivers!
Some other boys from my class, wouldn't class them as friends, but. There is one lad who is your stereotypical chav, aggressive behaviour, lack of respect for authority and general care-free attitude. I regularly have to encounter tales of him driving his Fiesta Zetec-S at 135MPH and still going, because it wasn't hitting the limter (Yawn) and "I raced this Civic Type-R, smoked him down this hill by the roundabout, its a 2 litre Turbo innit!"
There is another lad, who is the type that was bought up in a good family with a wealthy background, but going through a rebelious stage and it shows through his driving, he actually said to one of the first lads I mentioned. "Which way are you going home? I'll race you!" I couldn't believe he actually said it, I asked him what he said, he repeated it. I just walked off laughing! He also drives like a twunt and drives with his fog lights on. He has a write off to his name in the first month of driving. A Daewoo Matiz!
I'm no saint. I regularly speed, but with good judgement in good conditions. I occasionally make a few bad decisions. Which is why I've just joined the IAM to hopefully help me further.
I don't think raising the age limit to 18 will help, 16-21 year old having varying levels of maturity. I'd rather have some 16 year old on the road than some 20+ men I know. A passenger will most definately help, but this is unfair on the young drivers that do not show off in front of their mates. The same with the curfew on young drivers. Most young males go out at night just for the sake of it, so putting a curfew on them may help, but again extremely unfair on the ones doing no harm.
I'd suggest, more Police Patrols or CCTV in areas prone to incidents with young males and introducing short driving bans and car confiscation to offenders. I know what its like to be without a car shortly after passing my test, when I hydrolocked my engine. I'm sure if they realised they could be without their cars for a few weeks, they may think twice. I think half of the incidents wouldn't happen, if they realised they couldn't get away with it. Instead the opposite happens, they think they can get away with it and because they havn't been caught, the concequences are ussually fatal.
Well said, and several good points there!I don't purposely take risks, although I have, through inexperience made a few overtaking manouevres, that could of ended up badly, one I can remember was mis judging a vehicles length and not initiating the overtake with enough speed. But I have learnt from them and not had any repeat incidents.
I also tend to drive faster with friends in the car, not necasarily more dangerously, but at an increased pace, probably due to the fact I have a more powerful car than most of my friends and like to show it off a bit.
I spend a lot of time observing my friends attitudes towards driving. It ussualy matches their personality. Two of my friends from college, one 18, the other 22. They are both sensible, nice lads, with nothing to prove, they get a lot of respect from the other class mates and are hard working. They both drive sensibly and have never heard them boasting about their driving encounters, maybe due to the fact that they both drive 1.2 Corsas, so have nothing to boast about! But they are not as high risk as a lot of male drivers!
Some other boys from my class, wouldn't class them as friends, but. There is one lad who is your stereotypical chav, aggressive behaviour, lack of respect for authority and general care-free attitude. I regularly have to encounter tales of him driving his Fiesta Zetec-S at 135MPH and still going, because it wasn't hitting the limter (Yawn) and "I raced this Civic Type-R, smoked him down this hill by the roundabout, its a 2 litre Turbo innit!"
There is another lad, who is the type that was bought up in a good family with a wealthy background, but going through a rebelious stage and it shows through his driving, he actually said to one of the first lads I mentioned. "Which way are you going home? I'll race you!" I couldn't believe he actually said it, I asked him what he said, he repeated it. I just walked off laughing! He also drives like a twunt and drives with his fog lights on. He has a write off to his name in the first month of driving. A Daewoo Matiz!
I'm no saint. I regularly speed, but with good judgement in good conditions. I occasionally make a few bad decisions. Which is why I've just joined the IAM to hopefully help me further.
I don't think raising the age limit to 18 will help, 16-21 year old having varying levels of maturity. I'd rather have some 16 year old on the road than some 20+ men I know. A passenger will most definately help, but this is unfair on the young drivers that do not show off in front of their mates. The same with the curfew on young drivers. Most young males go out at night just for the sake of it, so putting a curfew on them may help, but again extremely unfair on the ones doing no harm.
I'd suggest, more Police Patrols or CCTV in areas prone to incidents with young males and introducing short driving bans and car confiscation to offenders. I know what its like to be without a car shortly after passing my test, when I hydrolocked my engine. I'm sure if they realised they could be without their cars for a few weeks, they may think twice. I think half of the incidents wouldn't happen, if they realised they couldn't get away with it. Instead the opposite happens, they think they can get away with it and because they havn't been caught, the concequences are ussually fatal.
The one thing I long for is more TrafPol. Yes, this comes at an increased risk to myself that I may be caught speeding, albeit in excellent conditions, but I would rather take the points AND have 10 lethal/irresponsible drivers off the road.
Your first couple of paragraphs had me saying in my head "a perfect candidate for IAM", and then read that you have paid up!
Great stuff, it'll do you wonders, loads to benefit from. Just don't get put off by the percentage of the group from the older generation. 
Should you ever get in to a situation with a copper where you are able to talk yourself out of 80 in a 60 ticket because you can explain the system, roadcraft recite the conditions of the road for the last 3 miles, that may be the tipping point for your friends to consider advanced tuition.
- This is not a instruction to go out, speed and rely on knowledge of roadcraft/IAM to get you out of it.*
Cheers,
Andy
im a young driver and the only thing that stopped me from driving like a moron was thinking that if i had a crash could i deal with killing someone and i realized that its not worth it if the traffics busy or theres friends in the car. i think there should be more adverts on tv that illustrate this but then again some people just think that they are invincible
12joe340 said:
im a young driver and the only thing that stopped me from driving like a moron was thinking that if i had a crash could i deal with killing someone and i realized that its not worth it if the traffics busy or theres friends in the car.
But it's ok if you're alone? There are other innocent people out there going about their business who are not expecting anyone who think's "It's only me in the car..." You have the ability to change peoples lives forever. Never forget that. 
12joe340 said:
i think there should be more adverts on tv that illustrate this but then again some people just think that they are invincible
Like these? 
There are a few good ones that I agree, should be shown on UK television, but the PC brigade can't have the masses offended... they'd rather have the drink-drive and other driving/road-related deaths remain unabated.
It's a no-brainer for me. Oh that's right this govt.... do i need to finish?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdZi-iJm3g8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVzsMXTPop0
There are more, but I can't seem to find them atm.
I agree with Ricky, Ive been in cars with 39 year olds and the driving compared to any 17 year old is far worse, the 39 year old has had many crashes including other cars and yet some not all 17 year olds, are much better drivers than older drivers, due to the fact that the driving lessons are still bored into the young drivers head.
Raising the age from 17 to 21 is not the solution as its quite clearly not all 17 year olds that cause crashes, as someone said erlier a BAN will help.
How are people aged 17 going to get to work without a car or go shopping for food when they need to be earning all they can to get onto the property market and so on.
Raising the age from 17 to 21 is not the solution as its quite clearly not all 17 year olds that cause crashes, as someone said erlier a BAN will help.
How are people aged 17 going to get to work without a car or go shopping for food when they need to be earning all they can to get onto the property market and so on.
Ricky_M said:
A lot of sense...
First off i have to agree with alot of what Ricky has said, it's nearly a mirror image.I'm only 21 myself and like most guys my age, im VERY enthusiastic about driving! I passed in late 05 and since i've had many close calls alot of which i've learnt from. Like everyone says, its only when you pass that the real learning begins. Which is partly the problem. Only when you pass! Maybe some sort of vetting proceedure should be in place after a set period post successful pass?
What sort? Well...Something along the lines of IAM in a way. Someone who is qualified/experienced enough who will sit there while you drive & point out whats good, what isn't. Not a test necessarily but more observing & reporting back to you. Point out certain habits which may be detrimental to one's driving. The issue you of course then have is ensuring the people who are doing the driving aren't going to be turning the volume up to max on the stereo & going "la la la la...I can't hear you!".
Whatever method of educating & improving young peoples driving is going to face an up hill struggle regardless. Some WILL see it as a benefit, but a lot will simply see it as a hinderence, an annoyance, like car tax or an MOT every year. It's stopping them from continuing there daily lives. That's just how the world is now & to properly reach an audience like this, you do need something drastic. Those ad's may help, but at the same time, they can quite easily be dismissed as safety propaganda.
So what do you do? Well you take the lesser of two evils...You reach the people you can. Because like everything in life, you can't make everyone stop and think.
I guess another option would be tieing it into Higher Education/Work. Making it more of a social responsibility rather than an individuals responsibility, because the truth is (& i'm sure alot will agree), that at that age, you're stepping into the world, to an extent you think you know it all & by drilling it into others around you that what you do when your behind the wheel can affect anyone anywhere and basically relying on an expanded version of "peer pressure" it could work. Who knows!
Anyway, i've waffled slightly!
My accident history:
A knock in Summer 06. A middle aged bloke was very keen shall we say to put the blame on me. Granted i'd only been driving for about 6/7 months but me being the younger it ended up being a 50:50 despite him being totally in the wrong.
Since then it's been interesting. Gut feelings about people i know has saved my bacon on many MANY occasions. But like Ricky, i have made some rash decisions & learnt from it.
One of which i made a few nights ago & this is based on my mental attitude which was a wake-up call to me. Complacency had set in. Driving my little 1.6 Astra down a quiet lane, a few miles away from my hometown. I know the roads like the back of my hand, but alas this road was one i hadn't ventured down except for 1 night as a passenger. I remember it being snakey, but not as much it turned out to be. Expecting a gentle sweeping left hander i was greeted by a tight left. Too late! A hard left did nothing, ploughed straight on into a ditch. No-one there but me. A slightly battered/broken car but another lesson learnt. My approach when taking on that road mentally was all wrong. Reading the road itself, again, wrong. Although there were NSL signs present & although conditions were favourable to go quite near that limit, i wasn't anywhere near it, yet simply not reading the road ahead properly & not having the correct mindset produced a rather expensive outcome. Including a slightly battered ego.
So the point is...Complacency! It's a b
h. One of the key issues that means that this problem will never go away is that government has demonised cars and driving. All things to do with driving are bad. It causes pollution, jams, death, anti-social behaviour, the end of the planet, too much speed, bad breath, global warming etc.
So how can a government so wedded to how bad cars and driving are, create an ethos where driving improvement and being good at driving are desirable social traits?
So the cause is lost unless there is a revolution in thinking about transport snd driving in particular.
Bert
So how can a government so wedded to how bad cars and driving are, create an ethos where driving improvement and being good at driving are desirable social traits?
So the cause is lost unless there is a revolution in thinking about transport snd driving in particular.
Bert
BertBert said:
One of the key issues that means that this problem will never go away is that government has demonised cars and driving. All things to do with driving are bad. It causes pollution, jams, death, anti-social behaviour, the end of the planet, too much speed, bad breath, global warming etc.
So how can a government so wedded to how bad cars and driving are, create an ethos where driving improvement and being good at driving are desirable social traits?
So the cause is lost unless there is a revolution in thinking about transport snd driving in particular.
Bert
Nail. Head.So how can a government so wedded to how bad cars and driving are, create an ethos where driving improvement and being good at driving are desirable social traits?
So the cause is lost unless there is a revolution in thinking about transport snd driving in particular.
Bert
Ricky_M said:
I'm a young male driver....
I agree with everything you said RIcky.Edited by Ricky_M on Sunday 23 March 20:22
Im 21 now, had my licence 4 years now, i think there's probably a lot of parallels between our driving. I've never had any crashes, never even come close, but i still like to make progress, although only when conditions allow. Im also thinking of joining the IAM, because unlike 99% of road users, i take pride in my driving, and actually enjoy it.
What you say about friends and their driving is true, you get the idiots saying they did 130mph, and overtook a ferrari in reverse whilst blindfolded ect ect. I just completely ignore them, those sorts of drivers are beyond help IMO.
Another problem i see with alot of my friends is that they all say 'yes, i think im a good driver', but know absolutely nothing about how their car actually works, how to drive in different road conditions, what understeer and oversteer are etc. The problem is it will take a small bump/accident for them to actually realise this, and they probably won't take any interest in these things after anyway. Thats a real piss boiler for me
Also I agree with the OP on the reasoning that young men have more accidents because of the risks they take, im sure alot of them have a keen interest in cars, when they have a massive crash they will probably know why they did. I actually think the problem drivers I described above (dont take an interest in driving) are mainly young women
Great topic.
I'm 22, been driving since I was not long gone 17. I am, of course, a total petrolhead, I love driving, cars, and everything involved.
I broadly agree with what has been said by the other lads, who it seems are all quite similar to me.
Again - I have had no accidents (touch wood), although much like the others, I will freely admit that there are times I have reflected on odd moments of my driving I am not proud of. Its not often, but it does happen.
My first point has already been raised. The test is too easy.
I know its easy for me to say, I had few lessons and passed first time with 3 minors. I was elated. But 40 minutes of town driving is not enough to judge someone ready to go out alone.
The test needs to be more considered, longer. It could happen in stages?
What about a manouevreing test to begin with. Then an intermediate test, on slower roads, then as things such as car control and the mechanics of driving are becoming 2nd nature, a final test based on roadcraft, judgement, the things that really matter.
In the current system, what happens is the licence is granted after the 2nd stage.
Its quite easy to imagine how once your given that pink card, you think right, thats it, I can drive.
There is nothing to make you do the last bit, the important bit. Thinking, improving, striving to be better. For the majority of 17yr olds, its a case of "I've passed, so I must be as good as every other driver".
And with the lack of education to prove otherwise, its not really fair to wholly lay blame on these people themselves. If you genuinely don't know better, you wont spot your own mistakes, will you? Thus, some get away with it and pass through the early years scot free, some don't.
Interstingly, I think all us 20-odd year old males seem to be agreeing on what would be better.
A longer, more involved test procedure. More assessment and gentle coaching.
More real driving. A 45min test on 30mph roads in city centres just doesn't cut it - And I'd hazard a guess that this is not where our peers are writing cars off and killing their friends.
I never, not once, went out on a big excursion with my instructor, I think I barely hit 60mph throughout my time with him. Luckily I had parents that did teach me well, however many don't.
Motorways. Being able to venture onto a 4 lane motorway at rush hour, 15 minutes after passing your test, with absolutely zero experience of it, is a joke.
This ties in well with having a tiered, stage system of passing the test.
Overtaking. Young lads like to go quick, this means overtaking. you wont change that too much, and on the face of it, its not neccasarily wrong. However, a lot of other people, don't like overtaking. In fact, they think its postively disgraceful, and probably illegal, and something only done by hooligans.
Mixing one set of drivers who want to overtake but havent been taught how, with another set who dont want to be overtaken, and you have accidents.
Other things I think are important which have not been mentioned - a basic knowledge of cars, their workings, and dynamics. I think this is perhaps the one area where some girls are lacking, and I'm not PC enough to be afraid of saying it.
I think knowing what is happening is important, being able to recognise a skid, when grip is low, when the car has a fault, etc etc. Theres so many people who dont have a clue.
As for old cars, I disagree. I think passing your test and buying a nice new car with 8 zillion airbags, steering that doesnt feel connected to anyhting, feather light pedals and rubbish peripheral vision is the worst thing to do.
Theres so much more I could write but I'm not very good at putting it all across concisely, so I'll leave it at that for now and come back later.
I'm 22, been driving since I was not long gone 17. I am, of course, a total petrolhead, I love driving, cars, and everything involved.
I broadly agree with what has been said by the other lads, who it seems are all quite similar to me.
Again - I have had no accidents (touch wood), although much like the others, I will freely admit that there are times I have reflected on odd moments of my driving I am not proud of. Its not often, but it does happen.
My first point has already been raised. The test is too easy.
I know its easy for me to say, I had few lessons and passed first time with 3 minors. I was elated. But 40 minutes of town driving is not enough to judge someone ready to go out alone.
The test needs to be more considered, longer. It could happen in stages?
What about a manouevreing test to begin with. Then an intermediate test, on slower roads, then as things such as car control and the mechanics of driving are becoming 2nd nature, a final test based on roadcraft, judgement, the things that really matter.
In the current system, what happens is the licence is granted after the 2nd stage.
Its quite easy to imagine how once your given that pink card, you think right, thats it, I can drive.
There is nothing to make you do the last bit, the important bit. Thinking, improving, striving to be better. For the majority of 17yr olds, its a case of "I've passed, so I must be as good as every other driver".
And with the lack of education to prove otherwise, its not really fair to wholly lay blame on these people themselves. If you genuinely don't know better, you wont spot your own mistakes, will you? Thus, some get away with it and pass through the early years scot free, some don't.
Interstingly, I think all us 20-odd year old males seem to be agreeing on what would be better.
A longer, more involved test procedure. More assessment and gentle coaching.
More real driving. A 45min test on 30mph roads in city centres just doesn't cut it - And I'd hazard a guess that this is not where our peers are writing cars off and killing their friends.
I never, not once, went out on a big excursion with my instructor, I think I barely hit 60mph throughout my time with him. Luckily I had parents that did teach me well, however many don't.
Motorways. Being able to venture onto a 4 lane motorway at rush hour, 15 minutes after passing your test, with absolutely zero experience of it, is a joke.
This ties in well with having a tiered, stage system of passing the test.
Overtaking. Young lads like to go quick, this means overtaking. you wont change that too much, and on the face of it, its not neccasarily wrong. However, a lot of other people, don't like overtaking. In fact, they think its postively disgraceful, and probably illegal, and something only done by hooligans.
Mixing one set of drivers who want to overtake but havent been taught how, with another set who dont want to be overtaken, and you have accidents.
Other things I think are important which have not been mentioned - a basic knowledge of cars, their workings, and dynamics. I think this is perhaps the one area where some girls are lacking, and I'm not PC enough to be afraid of saying it.
I think knowing what is happening is important, being able to recognise a skid, when grip is low, when the car has a fault, etc etc. Theres so many people who dont have a clue.
As for old cars, I disagree. I think passing your test and buying a nice new car with 8 zillion airbags, steering that doesnt feel connected to anyhting, feather light pedals and rubbish peripheral vision is the worst thing to do.
Theres so much more I could write but I'm not very good at putting it all across concisely, so I'll leave it at that for now and come back later.
snotrag said:
Great topic.
I'm 22, been driving since I was not long gone 17. I am, of course, a total petrolhead, I love driving, cars, and everything involved.
I broadly agree with what has been said by the other lads, who it seems are all quite similar to me.
Again - I have had no accidents (touch wood), although much like the others, I will freely admit that there are times I have reflected on odd moments of my driving I am not proud of. Its not often, but it does happen.
My first point has already been raised. The test is too easy.
I know its easy for me to say, I had few lessons and passed first time with 3 minors. I was elated. But 40 minutes of town driving is not enough to judge someone ready to go out alone.
The test needs to be more considered, longer. It could happen in stages?
What about a manouevreing test to begin with. Then an intermediate test, on slower roads, then as things such as car control and the mechanics of driving are becoming 2nd nature, a final test based on roadcraft, judgement, the things that really matter.
In the current system, what happens is the licence is granted after the 2nd stage.
Its quite easy to imagine how once your given that pink card, you think right, thats it, I can drive.
There is nothing to make you do the last bit, the important bit. Thinking, improving, striving to be better. For the majority of 17yr olds, its a case of "I've passed, so I must be as good as every other driver".
And with the lack of education to prove otherwise, its not really fair to wholly lay blame on these people themselves. If you genuinely don't know better, you wont spot your own mistakes, will you? Thus, some get away with it and pass through the early years scot free, some don't.
Interstingly, I think all us 20-odd year old males seem to be agreeing on what would be better.
A longer, more involved test procedure. More assessment and gentle coaching.
More real driving. A 45min test on 30mph roads in city centres just doesn't cut it - And I'd hazard a guess that this is not where our peers are writing cars off and killing their friends.
I never, not once, went out on a big excursion with my instructor, I think I barely hit 60mph throughout my time with him. Luckily I had parents that did teach me well, however many don't.
Motorways. Being able to venture onto a 4 lane motorway at rush hour, 15 minutes after passing your test, with absolutely zero experience of it, is a joke.
This ties in well with having a tiered, stage system of passing the test.
Overtaking. Young lads like to go quick, this means overtaking. you wont change that too much, and on the face of it, its not neccasarily wrong. However, a lot of other people, don't like overtaking. In fact, they think its postively disgraceful, and probably illegal, and something only done by hooligans.
Mixing one set of drivers who want to overtake but havent been taught how, with another set who dont want to be overtaken, and you have accidents.
Other things I think are important which have not been mentioned - a basic knowledge of cars, their workings, and dynamics. I think this is perhaps the one area where some girls are lacking, and I'm not PC enough to be afraid of saying it.
I think knowing what is happening is important, being able to recognise a skid, when grip is low, when the car has a fault, etc etc. Theres so many people who dont have a clue.
As for old cars, I disagree. I think passing your test and buying a nice new car with 8 zillion airbags, steering that doesnt feel connected to anyhting, feather light pedals and rubbish peripheral vision is the worst thing to do.
Theres so much more I could write but I'm not very good at putting it all across concisely, so I'll leave it at that for now and come back later.
I think you put it across just great! I'm 22, been driving since I was not long gone 17. I am, of course, a total petrolhead, I love driving, cars, and everything involved.
I broadly agree with what has been said by the other lads, who it seems are all quite similar to me.
Again - I have had no accidents (touch wood), although much like the others, I will freely admit that there are times I have reflected on odd moments of my driving I am not proud of. Its not often, but it does happen.
My first point has already been raised. The test is too easy.
I know its easy for me to say, I had few lessons and passed first time with 3 minors. I was elated. But 40 minutes of town driving is not enough to judge someone ready to go out alone.
The test needs to be more considered, longer. It could happen in stages?
What about a manouevreing test to begin with. Then an intermediate test, on slower roads, then as things such as car control and the mechanics of driving are becoming 2nd nature, a final test based on roadcraft, judgement, the things that really matter.
In the current system, what happens is the licence is granted after the 2nd stage.
Its quite easy to imagine how once your given that pink card, you think right, thats it, I can drive.
There is nothing to make you do the last bit, the important bit. Thinking, improving, striving to be better. For the majority of 17yr olds, its a case of "I've passed, so I must be as good as every other driver".
And with the lack of education to prove otherwise, its not really fair to wholly lay blame on these people themselves. If you genuinely don't know better, you wont spot your own mistakes, will you? Thus, some get away with it and pass through the early years scot free, some don't.
Interstingly, I think all us 20-odd year old males seem to be agreeing on what would be better.
A longer, more involved test procedure. More assessment and gentle coaching.
More real driving. A 45min test on 30mph roads in city centres just doesn't cut it - And I'd hazard a guess that this is not where our peers are writing cars off and killing their friends.
I never, not once, went out on a big excursion with my instructor, I think I barely hit 60mph throughout my time with him. Luckily I had parents that did teach me well, however many don't.
Motorways. Being able to venture onto a 4 lane motorway at rush hour, 15 minutes after passing your test, with absolutely zero experience of it, is a joke.
This ties in well with having a tiered, stage system of passing the test.
Overtaking. Young lads like to go quick, this means overtaking. you wont change that too much, and on the face of it, its not neccasarily wrong. However, a lot of other people, don't like overtaking. In fact, they think its postively disgraceful, and probably illegal, and something only done by hooligans.
Mixing one set of drivers who want to overtake but havent been taught how, with another set who dont want to be overtaken, and you have accidents.
Other things I think are important which have not been mentioned - a basic knowledge of cars, their workings, and dynamics. I think this is perhaps the one area where some girls are lacking, and I'm not PC enough to be afraid of saying it.
I think knowing what is happening is important, being able to recognise a skid, when grip is low, when the car has a fault, etc etc. Theres so many people who dont have a clue.
As for old cars, I disagree. I think passing your test and buying a nice new car with 8 zillion airbags, steering that doesnt feel connected to anyhting, feather light pedals and rubbish peripheral vision is the worst thing to do.
Theres so much more I could write but I'm not very good at putting it all across concisely, so I'll leave it at that for now and come back later.
Edited by LaSarthe+Back on Monday 24th March 22:18
I'm a young driver too at 19. Looking back on my first year or so of driving I realise that I drove like a total tw*t, putting myself and my friends in danger. I don't think it was down to immaturity as such, I just think that I didn't fully realise the consequences of driving like that (maybe that is immaturity?).
The main thing that has made me slow down has been hearing the horror stories on various car forums, and learning about the consequences of driving like an arse. I reckon that if people were shown and told about the consequences of driving dangerously whilst learning to drive, then they would drive with a bit more responsibility. Scare tactics.
My 2 p anyways
The main thing that has made me slow down has been hearing the horror stories on various car forums, and learning about the consequences of driving like an arse. I reckon that if people were shown and told about the consequences of driving dangerously whilst learning to drive, then they would drive with a bit more responsibility. Scare tactics.
My 2 p anyways
Some very interestng posts in this thread
I think a big problem is always going to be peoples attitudes to driving:
"Driving is my right, why should I have to pay all this money to sit through all this training when all I do is drive to work and once a month drive an hour to my parents?"
Or
"It doesnt apply to me, its to expensive, I dont drive fast, I'm only 18 and a student how can I pay? Need my car to go to work..."
Imagine the back lash against a government that makes people spend 1 year learning to drive or have to pay for multiple tests.
I think a big problem is always going to be peoples attitudes to driving:
"Driving is my right, why should I have to pay all this money to sit through all this training when all I do is drive to work and once a month drive an hour to my parents?"
Or
"It doesnt apply to me, its to expensive, I dont drive fast, I'm only 18 and a student how can I pay? Need my car to go to work..."
Imagine the back lash against a government that makes people spend 1 year learning to drive or have to pay for multiple tests.
Just another point of view
I've been driving for 6 years now in NSW, Australia (23, got my licence at 17). We have a graduated licence schemem. Learner at 16, if you pass your driving test you become a provisionsal (p1) driver for a year, then a computer based test (waste of time) to graduate to a provisional (P2) licence for 2 years, then another pointless computer test to graduate to a full licence
The problem is not the graduated scheme. This is a good idea. The problem is the second two tests are computer based and test nothing. They are passed by assessing "safe manouvers". Everyone knows that you pass by never turning across traffic. Hardly effective. A road based test is much, much better.
I'm a petrolhead. However, upon 17 I paid a couple of hundred dollars to do a "drive to survive" course in my old AWD subaru, then a "advanced car control course" in the same car, then a refresher in my current rwd car.
Yes, I do sometimes have a blast. However, I have the image in the back of my head of the possible impacts of overdoing it. Not in terms of monetary, but me not being able to live with the impacts on another family if things did go wrong.
However, demonising young drivers without chaning the driving education system will not change anything. The NSW system is pointless. A driving test measures a 3 point turn and a reverse park. That's all. Driving standards across Australia are woeful at best, abysmal at worst. Overtaking is seen as something that only a hoon would ever do; it is safer to tailgate a slow moving car. Lane discipline is non-existent. And this impacts on young drivers. 98% are taught by their parents, with one or two professional driving lessons before a test.
Passenger bans have been introduced. They are largely ignored. I live in a sprawling, US style area. No public transport, lots of urban sprawl and no way of getting around apart from cars. There used to be a strong tradition of always having a designated driver on a night out. This is being eroded.
I've been driving for 6 years now in NSW, Australia (23, got my licence at 17). We have a graduated licence schemem. Learner at 16, if you pass your driving test you become a provisionsal (p1) driver for a year, then a computer based test (waste of time) to graduate to a provisional (P2) licence for 2 years, then another pointless computer test to graduate to a full licence
The problem is not the graduated scheme. This is a good idea. The problem is the second two tests are computer based and test nothing. They are passed by assessing "safe manouvers". Everyone knows that you pass by never turning across traffic. Hardly effective. A road based test is much, much better.
I'm a petrolhead. However, upon 17 I paid a couple of hundred dollars to do a "drive to survive" course in my old AWD subaru, then a "advanced car control course" in the same car, then a refresher in my current rwd car.
Yes, I do sometimes have a blast. However, I have the image in the back of my head of the possible impacts of overdoing it. Not in terms of monetary, but me not being able to live with the impacts on another family if things did go wrong.
However, demonising young drivers without chaning the driving education system will not change anything. The NSW system is pointless. A driving test measures a 3 point turn and a reverse park. That's all. Driving standards across Australia are woeful at best, abysmal at worst. Overtaking is seen as something that only a hoon would ever do; it is safer to tailgate a slow moving car. Lane discipline is non-existent. And this impacts on young drivers. 98% are taught by their parents, with one or two professional driving lessons before a test.
Passenger bans have been introduced. They are largely ignored. I live in a sprawling, US style area. No public transport, lots of urban sprawl and no way of getting around apart from cars. There used to be a strong tradition of always having a designated driver on a night out. This is being eroded.
Just to add my experience of learning to drive in Western Australia 3.5 years ago.
I was a bit of a late starter with learning to drive. I could never afford to do it in the UK despite being an absolut petrolhead since the day I was born!
I had driven my friends and parents cars under supervision a fair bit in the UK so I knew the basics of moving a car and the basics of road rules.
I got to Australia and as Colonial mentioned there is zero public transport here so needed my license prettty quick sharp.
Step 1: Theory test...nothing to it. All question completed correctly in about 3 minutes.
Step 2: 'Learning' to drive...I could have had anyone teach me but chose to use an instructor.
I dont think I really learnt anything new from what I already had done.
Step 3: The practical test...After just 5 or 6 hours with an instructor I passed my driving test.
The test here is about as basic as you can get,
No emergency stops
No 3 point turns, parallel parking, no reversing around corners.
No speedy run on the freeway to test my ability to cope with traffic and merging lanes.
The test lasted 20mins and consisted of trundling around the suburbs at 50-60KMH, doing a U-turn, turning around using someones driveway and finally going in to a supermarket car park and parking front on between to other cars.
Step 4: Log booked driving...Your supposed to do 25hours of supervised driving and note it all down in a log book. I know other states are doing 50 hours now. In reality it would take you bloody months to complete the full time trying to drive people around as much as possible. People tend to do about half the hours and fudge the rest.
Step 5: Hazard perception test...Sit in front of a computer and watch some fuzzy footage take from the drivers view. Click the mouse when you think its safe to overtake/cross the intersection/slow down/brake etc.
Passed first time with no issue.
And that was it...I was free to go and drive any car I pleased as long as I had 'P Plates' displayed on my car.
Edited to add: I think being older and more mature when I got my license was a good thing. I can honestly say I have never felt the need to do anything silly on the road or show off to anyone or get involved in any sort of street race.
Make of it what you will..
I was a bit of a late starter with learning to drive. I could never afford to do it in the UK despite being an absolut petrolhead since the day I was born!
I had driven my friends and parents cars under supervision a fair bit in the UK so I knew the basics of moving a car and the basics of road rules.
I got to Australia and as Colonial mentioned there is zero public transport here so needed my license prettty quick sharp.
Step 1: Theory test...nothing to it. All question completed correctly in about 3 minutes.
Step 2: 'Learning' to drive...I could have had anyone teach me but chose to use an instructor.
I dont think I really learnt anything new from what I already had done.
Step 3: The practical test...After just 5 or 6 hours with an instructor I passed my driving test.
The test here is about as basic as you can get,
No emergency stops
No 3 point turns, parallel parking, no reversing around corners.
No speedy run on the freeway to test my ability to cope with traffic and merging lanes.
The test lasted 20mins and consisted of trundling around the suburbs at 50-60KMH, doing a U-turn, turning around using someones driveway and finally going in to a supermarket car park and parking front on between to other cars.
Step 4: Log booked driving...Your supposed to do 25hours of supervised driving and note it all down in a log book. I know other states are doing 50 hours now. In reality it would take you bloody months to complete the full time trying to drive people around as much as possible. People tend to do about half the hours and fudge the rest.
Step 5: Hazard perception test...Sit in front of a computer and watch some fuzzy footage take from the drivers view. Click the mouse when you think its safe to overtake/cross the intersection/slow down/brake etc.
Passed first time with no issue.
And that was it...I was free to go and drive any car I pleased as long as I had 'P Plates' displayed on my car.
Edited to add: I think being older and more mature when I got my license was a good thing. I can honestly say I have never felt the need to do anything silly on the road or show off to anyone or get involved in any sort of street race.
Make of it what you will..
Edited by deviant on Tuesday 25th March 02:52
I remember back when I was 19. I was a terrible driver when I passed my test. A friend of mine gave me extra "lessons" (he was 25 or so) around the city of Bristol which helped a lot. I still had a dire attitude, though...and that is largely what has has changed about me as I have got older.
Sure - I've two Rospa Golds and an IAM pass so I have demonstrated I have skills - but that isn't what has prevented me from crashing I don't think. Nope - why I don't crash is because these days I really, really, don't want to die and I've figured out, largely, what causes it - at least behind the wheel of a car.
Listening to our young friends above gives me hope. All the posters above are more mature than I was and sound like they are better drivers than I was too.
I like the idea of some properly targetted education. "Scare tactics" as said earlier. I also agree with turning around government demonizing of driving and cars: being good at it should be a praiseworthy skill in our society. Being bad at it (and still doing it!) should make you a social pariah: no excuses.
Sure - I've two Rospa Golds and an IAM pass so I have demonstrated I have skills - but that isn't what has prevented me from crashing I don't think. Nope - why I don't crash is because these days I really, really, don't want to die and I've figured out, largely, what causes it - at least behind the wheel of a car.
Listening to our young friends above gives me hope. All the posters above are more mature than I was and sound like they are better drivers than I was too.
I like the idea of some properly targetted education. "Scare tactics" as said earlier. I also agree with turning around government demonizing of driving and cars: being good at it should be a praiseworthy skill in our society. Being bad at it (and still doing it!) should make you a social pariah: no excuses.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff