Bad experience with IAM - what to try next?
Discussion
I'd been vaguely interested in doing some advanced driving training for a while. Hubby decided to go for it, and got in touch with our local IAM bike group. He went through all the training, had some really good rides out and seriously improved his riding skills. Finally went through the test and was proud to pass.
Full of enthusiasm, I decided to try some advanced training in the car. Because hubby had already been through the course, he had explained some of the principles, and I was already starting to apply them in my everyday driving. I was, and still am, very respectful of 40mph limits and below. I try to be very observant of all road conditions.
I was assigned an Observer, who when I arrived to meet him at his house, was a gentleman in his ?early 60s? He asked me to show him my car (a Fiat Punto at the time). I had parked where he had advised me to, in a fairly narrow back lane, just about 2 cars wide. However I came in for contemptuous criticism for my parking, because I had parked about 12 to 18 inches from the nearside wall (so that other vehicles could pass) and so 'How could your passenger possibly expect to get in to their seat?'
A bit miffed and bewildered, I kept my mouth shut, hoping that I would come to understand where I'd gone wrong. We went out on our drive, and the only commentary I got was directions. No teaching or advice was offered. On our return, I was given a scoresheet of all the areas that are judged on the test, and EVERYTHING was scored very negatively. I probably would have been prepared to believe that I was just rubbish, but I noted that I had been scored down on speed control, which I was very aware of, and about which I had been vigilent.
I was pretty downhearted about the experience, but hubby persuaded me to carry on. Having done the m/c test himself, he reckoned that my driving skills could do with a little refining, but that I was otherwise very capable.
I went out for the next 'lesson' which went very much the same as the last, except that my Observer inadvertantly directed me into a dead end street. We sat for a minute of so, until he worked out where he wanted to be, at which point he asked 'Do you want me to turn you around?'
The final straw came on the last 'lesson/drive' He decided to take me out on what he decribed as a 'Demonstration drive'. Presumably to show off his IAM skills.
The skills he demonstrated were:
- sitting in the middle lane of a motorway, for no apparent reason
- approaching a corner too quick in 5th gear, stamping on the brake, then leaving the car in 5th gear for the laborious climb from 20mph to 60mph in one gear
-driving right through a country village at 40mph (30mph limit), then commenting that 'in the test they won't mind that, as long as you notice and comment that you're doing it'
-failing to notice that the car in front had been indicating for some time that it was turning left (into a garage forecourt), then being utterly surprised that it actually slowed down in order to do so, swerving sharply in order to avoid running into the back of that car, and causing oncoming drivers to brake sharply, thereby avoiding a collision.
As I got out of the car at the end of this demonstration drive, I smiled and said goodbye.
But I was thinking, if that's Advanced Driving
you can stick it up your arse.
Comments?
Full of enthusiasm, I decided to try some advanced training in the car. Because hubby had already been through the course, he had explained some of the principles, and I was already starting to apply them in my everyday driving. I was, and still am, very respectful of 40mph limits and below. I try to be very observant of all road conditions.
I was assigned an Observer, who when I arrived to meet him at his house, was a gentleman in his ?early 60s? He asked me to show him my car (a Fiat Punto at the time). I had parked where he had advised me to, in a fairly narrow back lane, just about 2 cars wide. However I came in for contemptuous criticism for my parking, because I had parked about 12 to 18 inches from the nearside wall (so that other vehicles could pass) and so 'How could your passenger possibly expect to get in to their seat?'
A bit miffed and bewildered, I kept my mouth shut, hoping that I would come to understand where I'd gone wrong. We went out on our drive, and the only commentary I got was directions. No teaching or advice was offered. On our return, I was given a scoresheet of all the areas that are judged on the test, and EVERYTHING was scored very negatively. I probably would have been prepared to believe that I was just rubbish, but I noted that I had been scored down on speed control, which I was very aware of, and about which I had been vigilent.
I was pretty downhearted about the experience, but hubby persuaded me to carry on. Having done the m/c test himself, he reckoned that my driving skills could do with a little refining, but that I was otherwise very capable.
I went out for the next 'lesson' which went very much the same as the last, except that my Observer inadvertantly directed me into a dead end street. We sat for a minute of so, until he worked out where he wanted to be, at which point he asked 'Do you want me to turn you around?'
The final straw came on the last 'lesson/drive' He decided to take me out on what he decribed as a 'Demonstration drive'. Presumably to show off his IAM skills.
The skills he demonstrated were:
- sitting in the middle lane of a motorway, for no apparent reason
- approaching a corner too quick in 5th gear, stamping on the brake, then leaving the car in 5th gear for the laborious climb from 20mph to 60mph in one gear
-driving right through a country village at 40mph (30mph limit), then commenting that 'in the test they won't mind that, as long as you notice and comment that you're doing it'
-failing to notice that the car in front had been indicating for some time that it was turning left (into a garage forecourt), then being utterly surprised that it actually slowed down in order to do so, swerving sharply in order to avoid running into the back of that car, and causing oncoming drivers to brake sharply, thereby avoiding a collision.
As I got out of the car at the end of this demonstration drive, I smiled and said goodbye.
But I was thinking, if that's Advanced Driving
you can stick it up your arse.
Comments?
Wendy,
I have to confess I'm pretty flabbergasted to be honest.
It sounds like your observer needs to be re-tested.
And my honest opinion? I'd complain, in writing, with the points made above, and ask that you be assigned a new observer.
I'd not give up just yet. Sure you've had a nasty experience - but this is all based on one person - who, going by what you said, seems totally wrong.
You've paid your money - make the most of it - it is value for money - but of course is reliant on your observer. Ask for a new one - you are entitled to ask.
Please don't give up just yet.
K
I have to confess I'm pretty flabbergasted to be honest.
It sounds like your observer needs to be re-tested.
And my honest opinion? I'd complain, in writing, with the points made above, and ask that you be assigned a new observer.
I'd not give up just yet. Sure you've had a nasty experience - but this is all based on one person - who, going by what you said, seems totally wrong.
You've paid your money - make the most of it - it is value for money - but of course is reliant on your observer. Ask for a new one - you are entitled to ask.
Please don't give up just yet.
K
Wendy, like Kinky, I am astounded by what you have experienced. All observers are given training and are provided with specific guidelines on what is to be covered during each drive. Feedback should be given throughout the drive with a summary given at the end of the drive, along with suggestions of areas that need practice. He certainly is not carrying out his role as an observer and seems to serve only as a model of what is the antithesis of advanced driving. Definitely make a complaint, in writing, and request that you are assigned another observer immediately.
Edited to add that you should not lose heart. It is most certainly worth going back and completing the course.
Edited to add that you should not lose heart. It is most certainly worth going back and completing the course.
Edited by EmmaP on Friday 28th March 00:59
Try another observer. It is unfortunate, but the observers seem to be subjective.
I had a middle aged lady as my observer. Despite my preconceptions on how she may have driven, she owned a Cupra R and was a bit of a petrolhead. (And very interesting, too).
She absolutely loved the Evo and was very complimentary about my drive (I've done a 4-day RideDrive bike course some years ago so had no excuse). I made very brisk progress and got a clean report sheet.
Now just need to do the Skills For Life.
I had a middle aged lady as my observer. Despite my preconceptions on how she may have driven, she owned a Cupra R and was a bit of a petrolhead. (And very interesting, too).
She absolutely loved the Evo and was very complimentary about my drive (I've done a 4-day RideDrive bike course some years ago so had no excuse). I made very brisk progress and got a clean report sheet.
Now just need to do the Skills For Life.
wendyg said:
How should I approach my local group, given the previous experience. I fear that if I encounter the previous guy, and make any sort of negative comment, they will just close ranks etc
I'd approach the Chief Observer. You should be able to get his details through the Contact Secretary (their details should be published on the group's website or literature). In our group he is the first port of contact if there are any complaints or issues. Any issues that are raised within our group are dealt with openly. We've never closed ranks. Quite the opposite really.If there is a problem, as there clearly was with this man, then it needs to be dealt with as you really cannot have an observer conducting drives in this manner.
As with the other IAM posters I am fairly astonished. Still - this was six years ago. In the intervening period the IAM has introduced Observer certification and Observers are required to be "Group Qualified" (test with the Chief Observer - and checked up on every two to three years) or if a Senior Observer they are tested every three years by an external Examiner (Class 1 Police Driver).
So I would hope that your experience would be far less likely these days.
If you join your local group and let them know at the time that you had a bad experience prior I am sure they will do their best to ensure you have a good one this time around. You will, of course, need an open mind and be willing to change your driving to "The System" - but this is straightforward with a good teacher.
Personally I am a fan of retests to ensure driving standards remain high: for this reason I am also a member of Rospa - who insist I retest every three years. Helps with my Observing facing a similar test to the Associates every so often.
So I would hope that your experience would be far less likely these days.
If you join your local group and let them know at the time that you had a bad experience prior I am sure they will do their best to ensure you have a good one this time around. You will, of course, need an open mind and be willing to change your driving to "The System" - but this is straightforward with a good teacher.
Personally I am a fan of retests to ensure driving standards remain high: for this reason I am also a member of Rospa - who insist I retest every three years. Helps with my Observing facing a similar test to the Associates every so often.
I keep meaning to get back to the IAM, but I've simply been overwhelmed by other things going on.
However, my experiences driving with an IAM observer (one who pops up here from time to time) were very positive. His driving was predictably smooth and relaxed (I don't know if the latter is the right word, but you get what I mean!) and yet all at a very respectable rate of knots.
I have to admit the local group did seem a little err, mature. Most of them were the best part of 40 years older than me!
However, my experiences driving with an IAM observer (one who pops up here from time to time) were very positive. His driving was predictably smooth and relaxed (I don't know if the latter is the right word, but you get what I mean!) and yet all at a very respectable rate of knots.
I have to admit the local group did seem a little err, mature. Most of them were the best part of 40 years older than me!
Chris71 said:
I have to admit the local group did seem a little err, mature. Most of them were the best part of 40 years older than me!
That's a perennial problem. Retired people have lots of spare time to put into things. Inevitably they are well represented in any IAM Group. I sometimes feel young in our group and I'm 42! I'm shocked too, agree totally with everything said above. I only qualified as an Observer about a year ago and the training etc was thorough and well-run. I certainly wouldn't have passed having done any of that rubbish.
Where are you based Wendy? Sure there's an Observer on here who'd be happy to take you for a drive and (hopefully) prove that things have changed for the better!
Neal
Where are you based Wendy? Sure there's an Observer on here who'd be happy to take you for a drive and (hopefully) prove that things have changed for the better!
Neal
Don said:
Chris71 said:
I have to admit the local group did seem a little err, mature. Most of them were the best part of 40 years older than me!
That's a perennial problem. Retired people have lots of spare time to put into things. Inevitably they are well represented in any IAM Group. I sometimes feel young in our group and I'm 42! Like I said, my experience of driving with an IAM observer (quite possibly the second youngest person there!) was a very positive one and given the time I'd get back into it, but maybe the institute as a whole would benefit from broadening its appeal.
I doubt the same observer will still be there after 6 years, none of his associates would have passed, or all would have asked to be moved to other observers.
Go back, if you're assigned the same guy again call the group secretary and say you'd like someone else. If there are any problems again let them know and try another one.
Having just become an observer myself at 23, I have seen several new associates in our group who I doubt would be compatible with me.
I would not be offended, for example, if the lady who has had a license for more than twice as long as I've been breathing (and has stated she'll only drive with no shoes on because it's more comfortable
) was assigned to me but asked to be transferred.
Your original observer sounds like he passed his test long before he lost his memory
, but just keep trying till you find one that drives the way you want to
Go back, if you're assigned the same guy again call the group secretary and say you'd like someone else. If there are any problems again let them know and try another one.
Having just become an observer myself at 23, I have seen several new associates in our group who I doubt would be compatible with me.
I would not be offended, for example, if the lady who has had a license for more than twice as long as I've been breathing (and has stated she'll only drive with no shoes on because it's more comfortable
) was assigned to me but asked to be transferred.Your original observer sounds like he passed his test long before he lost his memory
, but just keep trying till you find one that drives the way you want to falcemob said:
Wendy your description bout sums it up and for similar reasons it is why I gave up shortly before I was going to do the test.
Most of them came across as bunch of self righteous pompous arses who could do no wrong on the road.
I'd be embarrassed to be associated with them.
Most of them came across as bunch of self righteous pompous arses who could do no wrong on the road.
I'd be embarrassed to be associated with them.
Just because I'm a self-righteous, pompous arse doesn't mean I'm not perfect.
Seriously whenever I hear a sentiment like that I wonder what on Earth happened. Our Group is not like that - I hope! Or maybe I really AM a self-righteous, pompous arse. Funny - most of my IAM friends don't come across like that to me and never did - even when I was an Associate...
We do get the odd person who comes along to the Group - and really doesn't get on - can't accept change. In general it isn't young blokes or lasses - only the ones with enthusiasm and an open mind turn up at all. Nope. Its actually older blokes (my age and on) who seem to have joined up for the sole purpose of getting their driving "rubber stamped" as OK and find it hard to digest that someone else might hold a different view of their driving than they do.
I imagine some of them think I am a self-righteous, pompous arse.
Let's face it - it isn't nice being told something you are doing is wrong. But that, eventually, has to be done because if you don't know something is wrong how can you fix it! Personally I always try to explain why and demonstrate a better way. Then I ask them to try it and to see if they can feel an improvement. Invariably a week later they tell me they do...BTW I am implying nothing about wendyg or falcemob here - no offence intended. I'm just offering a little of my experience as an IAM Observer...
Like the other Observers who've responded I'm appalled by your treatment, but ultimately not that surprised.
When I first qualified as an Observer back in '94 the training was sketchy at best, and there was very limited support and training after you'd qualified. Unless this observer received complaints his mistakes might not have been picked up. Happily, when I re-did the training after returning to the IAM a couple of years ago, things were improving. Observer training (as mentioned above) is now much more formal and structured, and hopefully this would not happen today.
However, there is a still problem within the IAM, and I think it may be caused by the organisation's lack of acknowledgment that the IAM test pass standard is not the best there is. On occasions I get the impression that the detail of 'the rules' is massively more important than the bigger picture.
As an example, I'd suggest the disproportionate amount of time devoted to the minute details of the cockpit drill. When the main comments after a drive relate to not mentioning where the door handles are, rather than the collision almost caused on a motorway, then the priorities are simply wrong.
Perhaps if IAM HQ actively encouraged retesting and continual improvement, then this complacency might subside - as it is, some members think their driving is as good as it gets. I worry that keen young (and not so young) potential recruits are deterred by groups that are largely elderly, male and white (no offence, Dave) and hardly ever do any actual driving.
Until this changes it would be my advice that people wanting to take their driving further should be more pro-active about their improvement, rather than assuming that the Skill for Life course to do it all for you. Read Roadcraft, ask questions and never think that anyone knows it all.
It's not all bad news - there are good, committed and talented Observers out there, and the IAM is still the most accessable and affordable way into Advanced Driving. It just doesn't always work as well as it should.
And breathe...
When I first qualified as an Observer back in '94 the training was sketchy at best, and there was very limited support and training after you'd qualified. Unless this observer received complaints his mistakes might not have been picked up. Happily, when I re-did the training after returning to the IAM a couple of years ago, things were improving. Observer training (as mentioned above) is now much more formal and structured, and hopefully this would not happen today.
However, there is a still problem within the IAM, and I think it may be caused by the organisation's lack of acknowledgment that the IAM test pass standard is not the best there is. On occasions I get the impression that the detail of 'the rules' is massively more important than the bigger picture.
As an example, I'd suggest the disproportionate amount of time devoted to the minute details of the cockpit drill. When the main comments after a drive relate to not mentioning where the door handles are, rather than the collision almost caused on a motorway, then the priorities are simply wrong.
Perhaps if IAM HQ actively encouraged retesting and continual improvement, then this complacency might subside - as it is, some members think their driving is as good as it gets. I worry that keen young (and not so young) potential recruits are deterred by groups that are largely elderly, male and white (no offence, Dave) and hardly ever do any actual driving.
Until this changes it would be my advice that people wanting to take their driving further should be more pro-active about their improvement, rather than assuming that the Skill for Life course to do it all for you. Read Roadcraft, ask questions and never think that anyone knows it all.
It's not all bad news - there are good, committed and talented Observers out there, and the IAM is still the most accessable and affordable way into Advanced Driving. It just doesn't always work as well as it should.
And breathe...
Edited by S. Gonzales Esq. on Friday 28th March 17:33
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
It's not all bad news - there are good, committed and talented Observers out there, and the IAM is still the most accessable and affordable way into Advanced Driving. It just doesn't always work as well as it should.
You have to remember that all the driver training it does is done by volunteers. Its a charity doing charitable work. This does mean it requires volunteers for its resources.Apart from the "Fleet" bit.
Don said:
falcemob said:
Wendy your description bout sums it up and for similar reasons it is why I gave up shortly before I was going to do the test.
Most of them came across as bunch of self righteous pompous arses who could do no wrong on the road.
I'd be embarrassed to be associated with them.
Most of them came across as bunch of self righteous pompous arses who could do no wrong on the road.
I'd be embarrassed to be associated with them.
Just because I'm a self-righteous, pompous arse doesn't mean I'm not perfect and all the other stuff you said.
...
I suppose it was like Speed Plod and Law or Pie and Piston with tea and biscuits thrown in for 50p.
That was Greenwich around 20 years ago.
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