Gearchange video

[Yung Man]

GreenV8S said:

Yung Man said:

My first impression on watching this video was that he was just slipping the clutch which I suppose thats all it is really

Is there another video somewhere that I'm missing? There was nothing like that on the video when I watched it.

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different, If you are holding the revs at for example 4000rpm in 3rd when you change up to 4th the revs might be drop to 3000rpm so why bother taking your foot off the gas pedal just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.
To me thats slipping the clutch, If I had done that on my driving test I'd have failed, come to think of it I used to drive like that when I was 16 and had a Vespa 125, I knew no different then.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Yung Man said:

GreenV8S said:

Yung Man said:

My first impression on watching this video was that he was just slipping the clutch which I suppose thats all it is really

Is there another video somewhere that I'm missing? There was nothing like that on the video when I watched it.

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different, If you are holding the revs at for example 4000rpm in 3rd when you change up to 4th the revs might be drop to 3000rpm so why bother taking your foot off the gas pedal just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.
To me thats slipping the clutch, If I had done that on my driving test I'd have failed, come to think of it I used to drive like that when I was 16 and had a Vespa 125, I knew no different then.

No, that's not slipping the clutch - it's matching engine revs to road speed, which is exactly what I was trying to demonstrate. Watch the rev counter carefully during the upchanges and you'll see that I let the revs drop to the point where the next gear will "take over".

Slipping the clutch is mis-matching engine and road speed whilst the clutch is on or about the biting point, causing excessive friction wear on the clutch.

[GreenV8S]

Yung Man said:

GreenV8S said:

Yung Man said:

My first impression on watching this video was that he was just slipping the clutch which I suppose thats all it is really

Is there another video somewhere that I'm missing? There was nothing like that on the video when I watched it.

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different

I don't understand what you're getting at. You seem to be saying that R_U_LOCAL was holding constant revs during the change and then using the clutch to pull the revs down to suit the new gear. That's exactly the opposite of what he was actually showing - by the time he engaged the clutch the revs were already spot on so the clutch wasn't doing any work. Maybe we're in furious agreement here.

[StressedDave]

Having finally got round to watching the video, I can see why people think Reg's legs (which clearly are going to have an Internet life all of their own ) are slipping the clutch. In finest keyboard-warrior pedantry mode, it's because his constant rev setting is out by a whole 100-200 rpm at times. So are mine occasionally, and with full in-car telemetry there's no escaping the fact.

[Yung Man]

I have watched it again and am still of the same opinion, as a professional driver of many years having covered well over 2 million miles of which 8 years were spent driving a Rolls Royce amongst others I feel that it may be more difficult to do perfect gear changes the old fashion way, lift off the throttle, press the clutch, then apply the throttle but it is far more rewarding when you manage to get it right.
In your video your revs according to the rev counter don't drop enough (IMO) which I'm sure you will admit is your intention, I know we all think we are the best drivers in the world and it would be interesting to find a way of deciding who was good and who wasn't but until we can the way you discribe changing gear is neither good for the clutch or good for the driver, It's the lazy way of getting a smooth change.

I may be corrected on this but if you and I went for a job as a chauffeur I think I could be quietly confident.



Do you mind telling me were you were taught to drive like this, or is it something you have developed over the years?.

[GreenV8S]

Yung Man said:

the way you discribe changing gear is neither good for the clutch or good for the driver, It's the lazy way of getting a smooth change.

Nope, you're still baffling me, you're describing what (I think) R_U_LOCAL was aiming to show, but them saying he wasn't actually doing it?

Perhaps you can describe what you think he was actually doing on the video, then perhaps we will understand where you're coming from.

[Yung Man]

Yung Man said:

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different, If you are holding the revs at for example 4000rpm in 3rd when you change up to 4th the revs might be drop to 3000rpm so why bother taking your foot off the gas pedal just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.
To me thats slipping the clutch,

This is what I said earlier and thats exactly what he is doing.

[GreenV8S]

Yung Man said:

Yung Man said:

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different, If you are holding the revs at for example 4000rpm in 3rd when you change up to 4th the revs might be drop to 3000rpm so why bother taking your foot off the gas pedal just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.
To me thats slipping the clutch,

This is what I said earlier and thats exactly what he is doing.

So, you're saying he is holding constant revs during the change until the point the clutch engages to pull the revs down?

[Santa Claws]

Well, R_U_Local, I enjoyed your video. Don't listen to the teenage chavs, that video has benefited, and will benefit, lots of people.

I await to see more videos!

[Yung Man]

GreenV8S said:

Yung Man said:

Yung Man said:

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different, If you are holding the revs at for example 4000rpm in 3rd when you change up to 4th the revs might be drop to 3000rpm so why bother taking your foot off the gas pedal just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.
To me thats slipping the clutch,

This is what I said earlier and thats exactly what he is doing.

So, you're saying he is holding constant revs during the change until the point the clutch engages to pull the revs down?

No what I'm saying is he is lifting his foot 1/4 of an inch so that the revs drop from 4000rpm to 3000rpm instead of lifting his foot off completely so that the revs drop from 4000rmp to about 1500(depends how quick you are) then go back up to 3000rpm without jerking, my exact quote was.

Yung Man said:

just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.

"Vertually don't alter" as in 4000rpm to 3000rpm, you keep asking me to explain won't alter anything, even if driving like that would get a novice through a driving test and that I would doubt, to me shows less mechanical sympathy rather than more,IMO It neither makes the journey smoother or safer, but if you learn to change gear correctly it will stand you in good stead for life.
Don't forget when ever people learn to drive the chances are 25 years later improvements in transport will mean that the skills you have learned won't be so important, after all if youR clutch does pack up at 90,000 miles instead of 120,000 miles you will still end up on the hard shoulder waiting for the AA

[1950trevorP]

I have 3 comments.

1) Thanks Reg for doing the video.
A demo of that which we are attempting to teach is very useful.

2) Please ignore the "'Your' way cannot be right - because it's not 'my' way" dissenters.
(yes I could teach DDC, H/T, LFB and other techniques - but they are not required for ROAD driving)

3) The legs DO seem to need a comment.

[Santa Claws]

Leave his legs out of it! It'd be more worrying if he had shaved/waxed his legs, THEN you should worry!

Hairy man-legs are a sign of virility.

[1950trevorP]

Yung Man said:

Do you mind telling me were you were taught to drive like this, or is it something you have developed over the years?.

I am sure that at the Peel Centre "Reg's" has been the proscribed method for several years.

[GreenV8S]

Yung Man said:

GreenV8S said:

Yung Man said:

Yung Man said:

My interpretation of slipping a clutch and yours must be different, If you are holding the revs at for example 4000rpm in 3rd when you change up to 4th the revs might be drop to 3000rpm so why bother taking your foot off the gas pedal just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.
To me thats slipping the clutch,

This is what I said earlier and thats exactly what he is doing.

So, you're saying he is holding constant revs during the change until the point the clutch engages to pull the revs down?

No what I'm saying is he is lifting his foot 1/4 of an inch so that the revs drop from 4000rpm to 3000rpm instead of lifting his foot off completely so that the revs drop from 4000rmp to about 1500(depends how quick you are) then go back up to 3000rpm without jerking, my exact quote was.

Yung Man said:

just move it back 1/4 of an inch that way the gear slips out and in while the revs vertually don't alter.

"Vertually don't alter" as in 4000rpm to 3000rpm, you keep asking me to explain won't alter anything, even if driving like that would get a novice through a driving test and that I would doubt, to me shows less mechanical sympathy rather than more,IMO It neither makes the journey smoother or safer, but if you learn to change gear correctly it will stand you in good stead for life.
Don't forget when ever people learn to drive the chances are 25 years later improvements in transport will mean that the skills you have learned won't be so important, after all if youR clutch does pack up at 90,000 miles instead of 120,000 miles you will still end up on the hard shoulder waiting for the AA

Thanks for clarifying. I'm not asking you to explain it because I think you'll change but because I found it difficult to follow what you meant. I may still be wrong, but this what I think you're saying:

Let's suppose Reg wants to change from third to fourth gear; he's doing 4000 rpm in third and he'll end up doing 3000 rpm in fourth. He starts by balancing the throttle so the car isn't accelerating or decellerating. Then he dips the clutch. The engine revs don't change much because he has balanced the throttle. Now he lifts off the throttle so the revs start dropping. As they approach 3000 rpm he eases the throttle open again so they settle at 3000 rpm. Meanwhile he has taken it out of third gear and into fourth. Then he engages the clutch. Once the clutch is engaged he opens the throttle again to accelerate in the new gear.

That's what I think Reg said he was doing. It's what the video shows him doing. I think it's what *you* say he's doing. So the last step is why you consider this is "slipping the clutch" or showing any lack of mechanical sympathy. What's wrong with it and how would you suggest it can be improved?

[Yung Man]

Santa Claws said:

Leave his legs out of it! It'd be more worrying if he had shaved/waxed his legs, THEN you should worry!

Hairy man-legs are a sign of virility.

Can you just tell me, how do you register twice on here, I thought you needed 2 E mail addresses Reg..........oooooooops sorry, er I mean who ever you are.

[WilliBetz]

1950trevorP said:

Yung Man said:

Do you mind telling me were you were taught to drive like this, or is it something you have developed over the years?.

I am sure that at the Peel Centre "Reg's" has been the proscribed method for several years.

I'm sure you're right, and pretty sure the reason is that reduced funding for advanced courses means there's less time to teach finesse. Which is a great shame for those of us who look to police advanced instructors to set an aspirational standard.

Roadcraft 1960 said:

Gear changing in itself is not a difficult operation. On most modern cars easy gear change devices automatically smooth out difficulties...

... Notwithstanding the modern gear change devices, it is still considered beneficial that the driver should use the double declutching method of changing gear

compare and contrast with

Roadcraft 1994 said:

make all gear changes smoothly

[Santa Claws]

Synchromesh has come a long way since the 60s, believe it or not.

[Santa Claws]

Yung Man said:

Santa Claws said:

Leave his legs out of it! It'd be more worrying if he had shaved/waxed his legs, THEN you should worry!

Hairy man-legs are a sign of virility.

Can you just tell me, how do you register twice on here, I thought you needed 2 E mail addresses Reg..........oooooooops sorry, er I mean who ever you are.

you can't prove a thing, i'm innocent!!!!!! INNOCENT I TELL THEE!!!

• runs away*

[vonhosen]

WilliBetz said:

1950trevorP said:

Yung Man said:

Do you mind telling me were you were taught to drive like this, or is it something you have developed over the years?.

I am sure that at the Peel Centre "Reg's" has been the proscribed method for several years.

I'm sure you're right, and pretty sure the reason is that reduced funding for advanced courses means there's less time to teach finesse. Which is a great shame for those of us who look to police advanced instructors to set an aspirational standard.

Roadcraft 1960 said:

Gear changing in itself is not a difficult operation. On most modern cars easy gear change devices automatically smooth out difficulties...

... Notwithstanding the modern gear change devices, it is still considered beneficial that the driver should use the double declutching method of changing gear

compare and contrast with

Roadcraft 1994 said:

make all gear changes smoothly

I don't see that the references to what's written in Roadcraft circa 1960 compared to more recent versions provides much.

1960 didn't advocate overlaps IIRC, where as I think we would all mostly be of the opinion that overlaps on the grounds of safety are entirely appropriate.

Also 1960s training had very little input on essential attitude compared to today's training. Again I think we'd mostly agree that it's a hugely important input.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 31st August 21:50

[R_U_LOCAL]

I'm not old enough to remember it myself (honestly), but our driving school used to insist on all the students performing synchronised door closing at the start of the day.

That's how much things have changed.