The problem of young male drivers
Discussion
Does this cavalier attitude spread to pedestrians that might be half way through crossing a road? I tend to work on the principle that I don't want to hit anything ever and if I do it's because I've got something wrong rather than the other person for wanting to occupy my space when I needed it. Everyone is human, they make mistakes and you have to deal with it rather than blaming them for same.
StressedDave said:
Does this cavalier attitude spread to pedestrians that might be half way through crossing a road? I tend to work on the principle that I don't want to hit anything ever and if I do it's because I've got something wrong rather than the other person for wanting to occupy my space when I needed it. Everyone is human, they make mistakes and you have to deal with it rather than blaming them for same.
There have been some commendable attitudes on display by some of the young contributors here, and it's encouraging to see that, but there seem to be others that might be wise to re-consider their approach. I just hope they will.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Eddh said:
I mean if you clatter a cyclist because hes in the middle of the road then its their own fault and i wouldnt feel any guilt if i did. They should be in the cycle lane where they belong 
You are kidding right? Pedestrians and cyclists have just as much right to use the road as you do. Or do you think that paying road tax entitles you to be King of the Road? Driving a car on the public highway means that you should be in control of your vehicle at all times. And that means being able to stop in time if you encounter an obstruction.I've witnessed bus drivers hitting pedestrians because they had the audacity to be in the road. I know of one bus driver who after hitting an old guy actually opened the door and shouted at him to get out of the road.
StressedDave said:
Does this cavalier attitude spread to pedestrians that might be half way through crossing a road? I tend to work on the principle that I don't want to hit anything ever and if I do it's because I've got something wrong rather than the other person for wanting to occupy my space when I needed it. Everyone is human, they make mistakes and you have to deal with it rather than blaming them for same.
Who crosses the road when a car is coming?Its not as though i speed up when i see cyclists and have competitions with my mates to see how many different peoples blood I can pickup on my bumper.
EmmaP said:
Eddh said:
I mean if you clatter a cyclist because hes in the middle of the road then its their own fault and i wouldnt feel any guilt if i did. They should be in the cycle lane where they belong
You are kidding right? Pedestrians and cyclists have just as much right to use the road as you do. Or do you think that paying road tax entitles you to be King of the Road? Driving a car on the public highway means that you should be in control of your vehicle at all times. And that means being able to stop in time if you encounter an obstruction.I've witnessed bus drivers hitting pedestrians because they had the audacity to be in the road. I know of one bus driver who after hitting an old guy actually opened the door and shouted at him to get out of the road.
Eddh said:
StressedDave said:
Does this cavalier attitude spread to pedestrians that might be half way through crossing a road? I tend to work on the principle that I don't want to hit anything ever and if I do it's because I've got something wrong rather than the other person for wanting to occupy my space when I needed it. Everyone is human, they make mistakes and you have to deal with it rather than blaming them for same.
Who crosses the road when a car is coming?Its not as though i speed up when i see cyclists and have competitions with my mates to see how many different peoples blood I can pickup on my bumper.
It was a flippant example, the point was to try an raise awareness of taking responsibility for ones actions rather than relying on the argument 'they shouldn't have been doing that so it's their fault' when one is gripping the rail in the dock and suffering from what is euphemistically termed 'the trumpeter's lips'.
Eddh said:
StressedDave said:
Does this cavalier attitude spread to pedestrians that might be half way through crossing a road? I tend to work on the principle that I don't want to hit anything ever and if I do it's because I've got something wrong rather than the other person for wanting to occupy my space when I needed it. Everyone is human, they make mistakes and you have to deal with it rather than blaming them for same.
Who crosses the road when a car is coming?Its not as though i speed up when i see cyclists and have competitions with my mates to see how many different peoples blood I can pickup on my bumper.
I'm not averse to a bit of humour, but I'm sorry to say your attitude concerns me.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Eddh said:
I think you missed the point about them being in the middle of the road on a blind corner on a twisty B road, if a car was coming at me in the middle of the road on a blind corner then its their fault that they are there - they should have been on their designated area of the road. As should the cyclist be in the cycle lane. If i clattered one that was in the cycle lane due to bad driving then i would feel teriable about it however if they are in the middle of the road and i wasnt driving dangerously then i believe its their own fault for being there.
Well I was going to say try using that argument in court when you are being charged with various offences but Dave's beat me to it.I know exactly the point you are making and that is why I said you had a duty to be in control of your car at all times. People do make mistakes and you have to allow for that. Can I recommend you read Paul Ripley's 'Expert Driving'? He writes well on the subject of attitude and how having a better attitude could improve your driving 80%.
I live in the city and it is very common to have drunks and drug addicts walk out into the road. There are, added to this, young children too with poor road sense and the elderly with defective vision and hearing.
I'm far from perfect. I've made some real bad choices in the past but I have accepted my responsibility and continue to work hard every day to be a better, safer driver.
EmmaP said:
Eddh said:
I think you missed the point about them being in the middle of the road on a blind corner on a twisty B road, if a car was coming at me in the middle of the road on a blind corner then its their fault that they are there - they should have been on their designated area of the road. As should the cyclist be in the cycle lane. If i clattered one that was in the cycle lane due to bad driving then i would feel teriable about it however if they are in the middle of the road and i wasnt driving dangerously then i believe its their own fault for being there.
Well I was going to say try using that argument in court when you are being charged with various offences but Dave's beat me to it.I know exactly the point you are making and that is why I said you had a duty to be in control of your car at all times. People do make mistakes and you have to allow for that. Can I recommend you read Paul Ripley's 'Expert Driving'? He writes well on the subject of attitude and how having a better attitude could improve your driving 80%.
I live in the city and it is very common to have drunks and drug addicts walk out into the road. There are, added to this, young children too with poor road sense and the elderly with defective vision and hearing.
I'm far from perfect. I've made some real bad choices in the past but I have accepted my responsibility and continue to work hard every day to be a better, safer driver.
I concider myself a safe diver but i do like to make progress and have some fun as well from time to time (dont we all otherwise we wouldnt be on PH
) usually only when it is sensiable to - usually late at night when you have a lot better idea of what is coming the other way and the roads are less likly to be busy.Thing is you cant allow for every possiable situation whenever taking a corner otherwise we would have to creep round every corner at 10mph but i believe a reasonable amount of due care and attention must be used.
Edited by Eddh on Tuesday 15th April 12:07
Eddh said:
Thing is you cant allow for every possiable situation whenever taking a corner otherwise we would have to creep round every corner at 10mph but i believe a reasonable amount of due care and attention must be used.
I'm practicing the slow in fast out approach at present. I was up in the Peaks at the weekend, on some narrow single track roads at times and you really had to keep the gears low and the speed right down. I made good progress when the limit point opened up though and had a really good drive.EmmaP said:
Eddh said:
Thing is you cant allow for every possiable situation whenever taking a corner otherwise we would have to creep round every corner at 10mph but i believe a reasonable amount of due care and attention must be used.
I'm practicing the slow in fast out approach at present. I was up in the Peaks at the weekend, on some narrow single track roads at times and you really had to keep the gears low and the speed right down. I made good progress when the limit point opened up though and had a really good drive.Glad you had a nice drive there
Is this the same problem as they have in the City right now? The one where because the testorone fuelled young males risk-takers make all the big money, big corporations can't do without them?
The argument for having more mature males and females involved implies you won't make progress as quickley ...
yeah, same problem!
The argument for having more mature males and females involved implies you won't make progress as quickley ...
yeah, same problem!
Eddh said:
snotrag said:
Eddh said:
If a cyclist is in the middle of the road round a blind bend then its their own fault, equally if another car is in the middle of the road overtaking a cyclist going into a blind corner, its no different from overtaking a car going into a blind corner and who does that?
It doesnt really matter who's fault it is (although I think your wrong) because you should be expecting it and thus able to deal with it if it happens.Expect the worst at all times.
The worst is when they ride side by side and dont move over for cars when they come up behind them
2 years ago, on a quiet country road not far from me, a young couple were walking from a party back in to town for more drinks because all the taxi's had been taken and they decided not to wait.
Walking towards the traffic, a taxi driver coming towards them obviously eager for the next fare was doing a little over 70mph and killed the lad when the corner of the car hit him, she was fine, but had to watch and HEAR that happen. I bet she will never forget a second of it.
OK, he was far from visible and made every effort not to be in the road when the car passed. The driver wasn't paying attention and saw him when it was too late. He went to court and was convicted with causing death by careless driving IIRC.
It is ALWAYS your responsibilty to make sure you can stop in clear road. If there should be that tree in the road, you belt it round this corner 10% too fast, lose control, roll over the tree and wipe the car who has stopped the other side of the tree, is it there fault that they stopped there and didn't forsee a tumbling Astra or whatever?? Maybe it's the tree's fault for having fallen down in your way.
2) Cyclists are permitted to be two abreast on the road. Getting angry at them will only show you up to be selfish, immature and irresponsible. FFS you can travel TEN TIMES faster than they can AND you get to do it in 22deg air-con with the radio or your favourite CD on! Please, have a little patience, and pass them when you can see there is nothing coming. Treat them like a tractor.
3)You should only ever be thinking of making progress when it is safe and approriate to do so. A police man will probably stop you when hooning around a scottish road, but explain the principles of Roadcraft to him and he'll probably let you off. If it's inappropriate of you act like you're Sebastian Loeb, he'll probably book you for a nice speeding offence if you're lucky, dangerous driving if your not.
In the dark you can not always see what is ahead. yes you can see there are no headlights, meaning no cars. But cars are not the only thing that can force you to lose control on a country lane late at night.
The deer, darting out from the side of the road, the old man putting his bins out for the morning, fallen trees. The all have the potential to see you off the road and upside down in a field.
4) You will encounter people crossing the road in all sorts of places! Some of the stupidest ever! But you have to be prepared for it! If what you expected to happen doesn't, you do not have to change your course or speed (and you were prepared to if the need arose). If you are not expecting it, and it appears, you are forced to make big adjustments too quickly and everyone is worse off for it.
Sorry for the long post, but I really felt the need to say this. I hope you have read it and not just ignored, because you would benefit from it.
One last thing, if you leave the room for someone to get out of a situation because you expected it to happen they WILL thank you for it. Brightens up the rest of your journey!
Cheers,
Andy
RE: Andy (dont wanna quote the post incase i catch an advert and it is about 180 screens long)
I read your post and agree with all of it (i didnt realise that cyclists were aloud to travel side by side out of the cycle lane).
I think that i do drive with a reasonable amount of due care and attention (I will agree that i could probably use a bit more). I think i will take onboard what you have said and try to acces situations better when driving and think more of what could happen if i dont.
Just want to point out that im not one of the chav-tastic boy racers by the way as stated in previous posts but i do enjoy driving, however only really where it is apropiate to do do so (not 30mph limits - I always stick to the limit through these as they are there for a reason as the risks are a lot higher)
I read your post and agree with all of it (i didnt realise that cyclists were aloud to travel side by side out of the cycle lane).
I think that i do drive with a reasonable amount of due care and attention (I will agree that i could probably use a bit more). I think i will take onboard what you have said and try to acces situations better when driving and think more of what could happen if i dont.
Just want to point out that im not one of the chav-tastic boy racers by the way as stated in previous posts but i do enjoy driving, however only really where it is apropiate to do do so (not 30mph limits - I always stick to the limit through these as they are there for a reason as the risks are a lot higher)
Fair play Eddh.
Cyclists are permitted to use the whole of the lane just as any other road user is.
In fact in certain circumstances it is promoted, and called 'taking the lane'. I think this is mentioned in the highway code. By moving out to the middle it demands attention from drivers - I do this in town. When appropriate then you can let cars pass.
Look up 'limit point' cornering if you've never done so, its something I've been actively doing recently since beginning my IAM quest.
It definitely does not involve driving around at 10mph, yet the thought process involved makes it so much safer.
Expect the unexpected, as they say.
Cyclists are permitted to use the whole of the lane just as any other road user is.
In fact in certain circumstances it is promoted, and called 'taking the lane'. I think this is mentioned in the highway code. By moving out to the middle it demands attention from drivers - I do this in town. When appropriate then you can let cars pass.
Look up 'limit point' cornering if you've never done so, its something I've been actively doing recently since beginning my IAM quest.
It definitely does not involve driving around at 10mph, yet the thought process involved makes it so much safer.
Expect the unexpected, as they say.
snotrag said:
Look up 'limit point' cornering if you've never done so, its something I've been actively doing recently since beginning my IAM quest.
It definitely does not involve driving around at 10mph, yet the thought process involved makes it so much safer.
Just been reading over the basics of this in work and think i might give it a try on the way home today. Sounds as though it certainly gives you a better idea of the road ahead especially if you dont know the bends in the road.It definitely does not involve driving around at 10mph, yet the thought process involved makes it so much safer.
Got a feeling im going to find those corners coming towards be ptetty quick
I've just had a word with a curriculum manager at a local FE college (one where I have taught part time) and he is very interested in getting me to come in to talk to the students about how to develop their driving skills (discussing advanced driving with them). This is something he feel passionate about as his wife works in a department at the local hospital where road traffic survivors are cared for. I am certain that the college will be very keen to get something established given that we lost a student 18 months ago in a RTA. Indeed it was that that first gave me the idea to get something set up, but I have not done anything about until this thread was started. I shall go through this thread again and consider all of the useful points that have been made.
They have twelve hours (per academic year I believe) set aside to cover issues relating to health. This currently covers matters of sexual health and the consequences of the misuse of drugs and alcohol. The curriculum manager is going to suggest to his colleagues that driving awareness and road safety (for want of better phrases) are included in their timetable.
So, I will let you know what progress I make and the format that any formal presentations might take so that some of you might get a similar event set up at your local college. The college in question has had a visit from the fire brigade already to discuss the role they played in dealing with RTAs, making good use of imagery. I am going to seek to get the involvement of the police in this and, if possible, someone in their age group with first hand experience of being in a RTA that was the result of poor car control or reckless driving.
They have twelve hours (per academic year I believe) set aside to cover issues relating to health. This currently covers matters of sexual health and the consequences of the misuse of drugs and alcohol. The curriculum manager is going to suggest to his colleagues that driving awareness and road safety (for want of better phrases) are included in their timetable.
So, I will let you know what progress I make and the format that any formal presentations might take so that some of you might get a similar event set up at your local college. The college in question has had a visit from the fire brigade already to discuss the role they played in dealing with RTAs, making good use of imagery. I am going to seek to get the involvement of the police in this and, if possible, someone in their age group with first hand experience of being in a RTA that was the result of poor car control or reckless driving.
Edited by EmmaP on Thursday 17th April 17:57
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