The problem of young male drivers
Discussion
I've just turned twenty and passed my driving test, first time, a little over a month after my 17th Birthday. Over the last three years - well, 35 months - I've clocked up about 60000 miles on all sorts of roads, including the continent, and in various different cars.
For the first year of my driving career the main thing that deterred me from driving like a t
t was the potential loss of my license, having "only six points to play with" as I described it at the time. Having got caught when I was 18 going a little over the national speed limit on a dry dual carriageway and on a clear day I came to realise that losing my license was unlikely ever to be related to how well I drove, but how fast I drove. Six months of wry ensued before I spun a car into a tree. The car was fine apart from a small dent in the rear wing and I was just a little shook up.
From then on I really calmed down. I drive a reasonably quick car, but that doesn't mean that I drive it quickly. My driving remains relaxed when I have friends in the car, even though they encourage me to go faster... Although I find that I slow down considerably when my young nephews are with me.
This is all pretty inconclusive because of my changing attitudes, and at times lack of motivation, towards driving. I don't think that the driving age should be raised, and I don't think that there should be any passenger bans; I am a non-drinker and I'd much prefer that I was responsible for driving my drunk friends home than some awful minicab driver who, based on the mileages that they no doubt rack up, really ought to be a lot better at it than me.
I also find it rather upsetting that the title "The problem of male drivers" has been chosen for this thread as I consider it to be the minority as opposed to the majority that are causing any problems. I am the only person I know - aside from my Mum, who was a middle aged woman when both of these happened - that has points and has "crashed" a car (more of a bump but meh), and if I represent the worse end of the scale as far as young male drivers are concerned, then I think that we can all sit back and relax because I'm pretty bloody good at it.
Just my 2p.
For the first year of my driving career the main thing that deterred me from driving like a t
t was the potential loss of my license, having "only six points to play with" as I described it at the time. Having got caught when I was 18 going a little over the national speed limit on a dry dual carriageway and on a clear day I came to realise that losing my license was unlikely ever to be related to how well I drove, but how fast I drove. Six months of wry ensued before I spun a car into a tree. The car was fine apart from a small dent in the rear wing and I was just a little shook up.From then on I really calmed down. I drive a reasonably quick car, but that doesn't mean that I drive it quickly. My driving remains relaxed when I have friends in the car, even though they encourage me to go faster... Although I find that I slow down considerably when my young nephews are with me.
This is all pretty inconclusive because of my changing attitudes, and at times lack of motivation, towards driving. I don't think that the driving age should be raised, and I don't think that there should be any passenger bans; I am a non-drinker and I'd much prefer that I was responsible for driving my drunk friends home than some awful minicab driver who, based on the mileages that they no doubt rack up, really ought to be a lot better at it than me.
I also find it rather upsetting that the title "The problem of male drivers" has been chosen for this thread as I consider it to be the minority as opposed to the majority that are causing any problems. I am the only person I know - aside from my Mum, who was a middle aged woman when both of these happened - that has points and has "crashed" a car (more of a bump but meh), and if I represent the worse end of the scale as far as young male drivers are concerned, then I think that we can all sit back and relax because I'm pretty bloody good at it.
Just my 2p.
AdamT5 said:
because I'm pretty bloody good at it.
Adam,Have you taken any advanced tuition? If you haven't, your eyes may well be opened to a potential new level of your ability.
When I was 21 I thought I was pretty bloody good too. going on my first observed drive showed me that I was missing all sorts of information and clues. So many that I actually drove home sheepishly cursing to myself about how laid back I was to it all.
Having taken the advanced test, I am cinfident to say that I am a thousand times better than I was, but still have more to learn!
Cheers,
Andy
LaSarthe+Back said:
Have you taken any advanced tuition? If you haven't, your eyes may well be opened to a potential new level of your ability.
I thought someone'd pick me up on that, and felt a bit stupid, as soon as I hit submit. I did actually spend the money joining IAM last year with all good intentions but I was forced into working seven days a week because of financial troubles and thus never made it to a single meeting. I fully intend on joining again as soon as I can afford to but money and time really is quite tight right now.I'll get back to you after I've been observed, tell you how it went
Hi I'm 19 and I would say that I'm a sensible driver and the reasons behind that are I don't particularly want to die in a crash, I very rarely speed, only if I feel it's safe to like a clear road with good visibility, I don't really want to lose my license, my insurance is so much that if I have an accident I probably won't be able to insure my car any more that and I don't want to damage the car either. I actually never take any mates in the car with me as I know that they would want me to go fast (that and I don't actually have many friends but that's beside the point)
I think that a ban on passengers under a certain age would be sensible because then your less likely to drive dangerously and I think that imposing a similar such ban on myself has actually worked.
I'm not to sure on the curfew though as I sometimes have to pick my mum up from work at night and there are many people I know who has to drive home from work at that time too. Although I do agree with it on the basis that all the chavs that drive about in the industrial estate near where I live are just plain annoying due to the amount noise they make and they just don't seem to be able to go one night without crashing.
There are a lot of chavs that seem to have to boast about their appalling driving like as if I care anyway and they genuinely don't seem to care if they kill anyone because if I ask they them what would you do if you crashed into someone and killed them? they just respond well they should've seen me coming so it's their fault. How can anyone even think let alone say that?
I think that a ban on passengers under a certain age would be sensible because then your less likely to drive dangerously and I think that imposing a similar such ban on myself has actually worked.
I'm not to sure on the curfew though as I sometimes have to pick my mum up from work at night and there are many people I know who has to drive home from work at that time too. Although I do agree with it on the basis that all the chavs that drive about in the industrial estate near where I live are just plain annoying due to the amount noise they make and they just don't seem to be able to go one night without crashing.
There are a lot of chavs that seem to have to boast about their appalling driving like as if I care anyway and they genuinely don't seem to care if they kill anyone because if I ask they them what would you do if you crashed into someone and killed them? they just respond well they should've seen me coming so it's their fault. How can anyone even think let alone say that?
I would not say I am a good driver.
However, I would say that elements of my driving are better than the average Australian driver (lane discipline, overtaking, ability to read the road) and hazard perception. But considering the distances I drive (average 50,000-60,000 a year compared to the average of 20,000
These are all things that are simply not taught in NSW. It is just a "should be natural" approach so is completly ignored. Driving standards are abysmal. Cars consistently block safe overtaking manouvers (why on earth would you do this). Cars sit in the right lane doing 10-20 below the speed limit with a clear left lane. Corners signposted at 45 are taken at 30.
However, I would say that elements of my driving are better than the average Australian driver (lane discipline, overtaking, ability to read the road) and hazard perception. But considering the distances I drive (average 50,000-60,000 a year compared to the average of 20,000
These are all things that are simply not taught in NSW. It is just a "should be natural" approach so is completly ignored. Driving standards are abysmal. Cars consistently block safe overtaking manouvers (why on earth would you do this). Cars sit in the right lane doing 10-20 below the speed limit with a clear left lane. Corners signposted at 45 are taken at 30.
Things our European cousins have tried (and may well still be using);
France - You used to see "90" stickers on the back of cars to denote new drivers, limited to 90kph.
Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
Attitude is the biggest factor affecting the risk of drivers. May young (mainly men) drivers have an attitude of immortality and excitement from speed. They also have a very optimistic opinion of their own skill level.
And skill alone doesn't make a safe driver. It has been established that racing drivers are no less likely to be involved in an accident - due to their attitude to risk.
It is hard to know the best course of action. Further training is most important IMO - possibly a graduated licence to allow use of more powerful vehicles?
And good examples need to be demonstrated - possibly at school?
France - You used to see "90" stickers on the back of cars to denote new drivers, limited to 90kph.
Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
Attitude is the biggest factor affecting the risk of drivers. May young (mainly men) drivers have an attitude of immortality and excitement from speed. They also have a very optimistic opinion of their own skill level.
And skill alone doesn't make a safe driver. It has been established that racing drivers are no less likely to be involved in an accident - due to their attitude to risk.
It is hard to know the best course of action. Further training is most important IMO - possibly a graduated licence to allow use of more powerful vehicles?
And good examples need to be demonstrated - possibly at school?
What an interesting thread! I have read with great interest the above posts. This is something that I am very interested in personally and a topic that we have discussed at great length within my IAM group. I think that it does come down to attitude. On the last course we had a 17 year old lad who was an absolute joy to observe and listen to in the class room. Fantastic attitude, excellent observation and very enthusiastic.
I think that getting the message across by visits to colleges could be a great way of reaching those most at risk of being involved in an accident. I have considered organising something like this in the past year but have never been sure what best way to approach it. Would this group be more responsive to police, driving organisation representatives or their peers? I was thinking peers would be the best option, but then the police could make a valid input too. Maybe this thread will inspire me to get my finger out and get something set up in our local colleges (Nottingham). I've collaborated with our local paper to get a couple of articles printed on the subject.
I think that getting the message across by visits to colleges could be a great way of reaching those most at risk of being involved in an accident. I have considered organising something like this in the past year but have never been sure what best way to approach it. Would this group be more responsive to police, driving organisation representatives or their peers? I was thinking peers would be the best option, but then the police could make a valid input too. Maybe this thread will inspire me to get my finger out and get something set up in our local colleges (Nottingham). I've collaborated with our local paper to get a couple of articles printed on the subject.
I'm 17, male and have been passed for 6 weeks. My old man is ex traffic police, and has shown me the "observation" side of advanced driving, since I was like 13. Now when I'm in the car, I don't want to boast, but I think my dads teachings have been very valuable, as I've had a couple of moments where I've seen something happen, but been looking for enough ahead to take action, and not cause any danger.
Now... here comes the bad bit. I'm sooooo easily susceptible to peer pressure, for example, come Friday/Saturday nights, myself and friends regularly have a point to point race, to see who can do it in the fastest time. I know this is stupid,/dangerous but at 17, it is really hard to say no, without looking like a tw*t. I contacted my local IAM group, but have had no reply. I really want to do something to improve my driving though, because I don't want to become a statistic. I even lost a mate last year, but as soon as I get behind the wheel I completely change. Its not good. I'm not expecting sympathy , and half expect to get flamed for driving like a tit... but can somebody please suggest a way to I don't know, change my attitude?
Now... here comes the bad bit. I'm sooooo easily susceptible to peer pressure, for example, come Friday/Saturday nights, myself and friends regularly have a point to point race, to see who can do it in the fastest time. I know this is stupid,/dangerous but at 17, it is really hard to say no, without looking like a tw*t. I contacted my local IAM group, but have had no reply. I really want to do something to improve my driving though, because I don't want to become a statistic. I even lost a mate last year, but as soon as I get behind the wheel I completely change. Its not good. I'm not expecting sympathy , and half expect to get flamed for driving like a tit... but can somebody please suggest a way to I don't know, change my attitude?
Not flaming you lad...at least you know you are driving like a tit.
Possibly the best thing that can happen to you is that you have a non injury crash and hear the unforgettable sound of metal changing shape..and your wallet getting thinner...and maybe your insurance premiums going UP for some years.
You have answered your own questions...the IAM will not make you quicker on your 'point to point races'...might make you come last, but live longer.
Your call...maybe have a chat with your Dad about how HE felt when knocking on doors with bad news?
BOF.
Possibly the best thing that can happen to you is that you have a non injury crash and hear the unforgettable sound of metal changing shape..and your wallet getting thinner...and maybe your insurance premiums going UP for some years.
You have answered your own questions...the IAM will not make you quicker on your 'point to point races'...might make you come last, but live longer.
Your call...maybe have a chat with your Dad about how HE felt when knocking on doors with bad news?
BOF.
mccarn said:
I'm 17, male and have been passed for 6 weeks. My old man is ex traffic police, and has shown me the "observation" side of advanced driving, since I was like 13. Now when I'm in the car, I don't want to boast, but I think my dads teachings have been very valuable, as I've had a couple of moments where I've seen something happen, but been looking for enough ahead to take action, and not cause any danger.
Now... here comes the bad bit. I'm sooooo easily susceptible to peer pressure, for example, come Friday/Saturday nights, myself and friends regularly have a point to point race, to see who can do it in the fastest time. I know this is stupid,/dangerous but at 17, it is really hard to say no, without looking like a tw*t. I contacted my local IAM group, but have had no reply. I really want to do something to improve my driving though, because I don't want to become a statistic. I even lost a mate last year, but as soon as I get behind the wheel I completely change. Its not good. I'm not expecting sympathy , and half expect to get flamed for driving like a tit... but can somebody please suggest a way to I don't know, change my attitude?
In your case I would stick with what your father advises, and don't worry about the rest of 'em. It may not be easy, but please try. You'll get the best result in the end.Now... here comes the bad bit. I'm sooooo easily susceptible to peer pressure, for example, come Friday/Saturday nights, myself and friends regularly have a point to point race, to see who can do it in the fastest time. I know this is stupid,/dangerous but at 17, it is really hard to say no, without looking like a tw*t. I contacted my local IAM group, but have had no reply. I really want to do something to improve my driving though, because I don't want to become a statistic. I even lost a mate last year, but as soon as I get behind the wheel I completely change. Its not good. I'm not expecting sympathy , and half expect to get flamed for driving like a tit... but can somebody please suggest a way to I don't know, change my attitude?
Edited to add that I agree also with BOF - especially as he has avoided the use of the term 'punter'. :-)
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Edited by p1esk on Wednesday 26th March 19:01
Fascinating reading!
I'm about to turn 22 and agree with a lot of what has been said.
For me the issue is more training. I am a petrol head who has a full motorcycle license and car license. This means that at the tender age of 21 I have taken (altogether) 7 tests, written and practical to get my various bike licenses and car license.
I know that I'm a much better driver because I've had all these tests and constant evaluations, and because I ride motorbikes and have had it drilled into me how vulnerable you are - any crash above 40MPH for a motorcyclist is reckoned as a 50/50 chance whether you live or die. I also actively seek out articles that can give me tips and insight into how to drive/ride better.
I want the whole standard of driving across the nation to improve, not just in young male drivers. From the small things like not indicating at all whilst driving and running red lights (taxi drivers I'm looking at you) to irresponsible speeding. But, as another poster has said, its not likely to come from our government when they hate the car.
My few pennies worth.
I'm about to turn 22 and agree with a lot of what has been said.
For me the issue is more training. I am a petrol head who has a full motorcycle license and car license. This means that at the tender age of 21 I have taken (altogether) 7 tests, written and practical to get my various bike licenses and car license.
I know that I'm a much better driver because I've had all these tests and constant evaluations, and because I ride motorbikes and have had it drilled into me how vulnerable you are - any crash above 40MPH for a motorcyclist is reckoned as a 50/50 chance whether you live or die. I also actively seek out articles that can give me tips and insight into how to drive/ride better.
I want the whole standard of driving across the nation to improve, not just in young male drivers. From the small things like not indicating at all whilst driving and running red lights (taxi drivers I'm looking at you) to irresponsible speeding. But, as another poster has said, its not likely to come from our government when they hate the car.
My few pennies worth.
rsv gone! said:
Things our European cousins have tried (and may well still be using);
Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
So are most British new drivers because of the price of insurance, which is a result of young male drivers! Slower cars arn't really safer than faster ones, ever tried cornering a 1.1 Fiat Punto with 155/70/13 cheapo tyres at any sort of speed, you only had to breathe too heavily on the steering wheel and it would lose grip like a pensioner on a slippery pavement.Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
I think more Policing is the way forward. The Government has chucked in a load of
Teenagers arn't scared of the concequences of dangerous driving. Most of them have the attitude "I'm allowed six points, its only three for speeding". Thats why I think they should take cars off them for a short period and when they get the cars back, give them a driving ban for a month aswell as a fine and maybe a good kicking when nobody is watching.
Dave,
"Edited to add that I agree also with BOF - especially as he has avoided the use of the term 'punter'. :-)"
I am shocked to find that you agree with me :-)...
I use the word 'punter' sometimes, as I feel that it is maybe less offputting to the younger people than ' Associate' and easier to spell.
Anyway, out at 10 in the morning with my Merc driver, he is in for Test...might try to relax him...
" I met a pal yesterday at the Doctors...looked worried...asked him what the problem was...the big C...Cancer? - No dyslexia!
"Edited to add that I agree also with BOF - especially as he has avoided the use of the term 'punter'. :-)"
I am shocked to find that you agree with me :-)...
I use the word 'punter' sometimes, as I feel that it is maybe less offputting to the younger people than ' Associate' and easier to spell.
Anyway, out at 10 in the morning with my Merc driver, he is in for Test...might try to relax him...
" I met a pal yesterday at the Doctors...looked worried...asked him what the problem was...the big C...Cancer? - No dyslexia!
Ricky_M said:
rsv gone! said:
Things our European cousins have tried (and may well still be using);
Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
So are most British new drivers because of the price of insurance, which is a result of young male drivers! Slower cars arn't really safer than faster ones, ever tried cornering a 1.1 Fiat Punto with 155/70/13 cheapo tyres at any sort of speed, you only had to breathe too heavily on the steering wheel and it would lose grip like a pensioner on a slippery pavement.Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
Plenty of new drivers in much better cars than that, though. And strangely, many newer cars have lower premiums than older ones. (My sister is a driving instructor and has commented on quotes her pupils have had). Perhaps due to additional safety features?
rsv gone! said:
And strangely, many newer cars have lower premiums than older ones. Perhaps due to additional safety features?
I'd reckon so.Small drop for standard ABS, miniscule drop (if any) for traction control*, biggest drop for electronic stability programme.
Much as we deride them here, if you take two inexperienced drivers without decent skid control skill, and they both enter the same wet corner a little too fast for their ability, nine times out of ten it's going to be the car with ESP fitted that makes it out the other end of the corner.
The standard argument that the driver with their car buried in something else at the side of the road is the one that's learnt a lesson about cornering doesn't really matter, as they're the one claiming on the insurance and thus deserving of the higher premium.
(*) - Surely even an inexperienced driver would have to be doing something impressive to generate an insurance claim solely from losing longitudinal grip in a typical open diff front wheel drive car with less than 60bhp.
When I launched this thread I wondered if anyone would find it interesting but thought I might get a few comments from the usual suspects! Instead, it’s generated lots of really thoughtful and helpful contributions from young PHers, which is brilliant.
There seems to be broad agreement that attitude is indeed a major issue for young male drivers, albeit with notable exceptions (and fully recognising that bad attitude is not limited to young male drivers!). Opinions on just what can be done about this vary but if I can attempt to summarise:
• The current driving test is inadequate. As well as speed restricted urban driving it needs to test open road driving (including overtaking) and motorways (or at least multi-lane dual carriageways).
• Ideally there should be graduated tests, not unlike the bike test with basic training leading on to a more advanced but compulsory standard before a driver has complete freedom of the road.
• Education, including shock tactics to ram home the consequences of an accident and the responsibility of being in charge of a ton of metal would help.
• No one seems to want to see the starting age for driving raised.
• Curfews for young drivers were considered unfair and largely unenforceable, albeit limitations on passengers to reduce peer pressure received some support.
• More traffic police would help to identify and act on bad driving and would reduce the expectation on the part of drivers that they will not be caught.
• Removal of an offender’s car for a limited period was suggested.
I’m sure I’ve missed a few points but to add a couple more:
Most young drivers are on the financial limit, especially when it comes to insurance, so typically they’re on third party fire and theft. Do they realise just how disastrous a crash will be in terms of either repair costs and/or insurance premiums? They should be told!
Virtually no new drivers (in fact very few drivers of any description) have experienced just how hard it is to stop a car from speed, especially if they also need to steer around an obstacle. Their only experience is the driving test emergency stop from about 20mph. I suspect this gives a false sense of security since it’s an easy manoeuvre in a modern car in a straight line. In comparison, an old Fiesta (or whatever), stopping hard from 60mph four up with tired dampers, budget tyres and no ABS on a wet road is a very different proposition. But no new driver will have experienced anything like this until it happens for real. The ensuing loss of control is then inevitable and it becomes a matter of luck whether they hit a tree, another road user or just a hedge. Bikers get to learn on private tracks where they can make mistakes safely; why not car drivers? My point is not that they must develop car control skills to equal Sebastien Loeb, rather that they should have some basis to understand that they are not God’s gift to driving and that there are potential consequences to travelling faster than they can stop (in the space they can see to be clear, etc). As one poster said, there's no evidence that those young drivers who have more developed skills through motorsport activities are safer on the road. (Not if my son's anything to go by. Cars don't actually handle like karts, whatever magazine road testers might say ...)
Finally, I caught an unusually good government TV ad the other evening featuring a biker going out for a ride and highlighting the potential hazards that, while not in any way his fault, could catch him out. These included spilt diesel, tractor pulling out of a blind field entrance, etc. As a cost effective starter, could we not do something similar to be distributed on DVD to all newly qualified drivers?
There seems to be broad agreement that attitude is indeed a major issue for young male drivers, albeit with notable exceptions (and fully recognising that bad attitude is not limited to young male drivers!). Opinions on just what can be done about this vary but if I can attempt to summarise:
• The current driving test is inadequate. As well as speed restricted urban driving it needs to test open road driving (including overtaking) and motorways (or at least multi-lane dual carriageways).
• Ideally there should be graduated tests, not unlike the bike test with basic training leading on to a more advanced but compulsory standard before a driver has complete freedom of the road.
• Education, including shock tactics to ram home the consequences of an accident and the responsibility of being in charge of a ton of metal would help.
• No one seems to want to see the starting age for driving raised.
• Curfews for young drivers were considered unfair and largely unenforceable, albeit limitations on passengers to reduce peer pressure received some support.
• More traffic police would help to identify and act on bad driving and would reduce the expectation on the part of drivers that they will not be caught.
• Removal of an offender’s car for a limited period was suggested.
I’m sure I’ve missed a few points but to add a couple more:
Most young drivers are on the financial limit, especially when it comes to insurance, so typically they’re on third party fire and theft. Do they realise just how disastrous a crash will be in terms of either repair costs and/or insurance premiums? They should be told!
Virtually no new drivers (in fact very few drivers of any description) have experienced just how hard it is to stop a car from speed, especially if they also need to steer around an obstacle. Their only experience is the driving test emergency stop from about 20mph. I suspect this gives a false sense of security since it’s an easy manoeuvre in a modern car in a straight line. In comparison, an old Fiesta (or whatever), stopping hard from 60mph four up with tired dampers, budget tyres and no ABS on a wet road is a very different proposition. But no new driver will have experienced anything like this until it happens for real. The ensuing loss of control is then inevitable and it becomes a matter of luck whether they hit a tree, another road user or just a hedge. Bikers get to learn on private tracks where they can make mistakes safely; why not car drivers? My point is not that they must develop car control skills to equal Sebastien Loeb, rather that they should have some basis to understand that they are not God’s gift to driving and that there are potential consequences to travelling faster than they can stop (in the space they can see to be clear, etc). As one poster said, there's no evidence that those young drivers who have more developed skills through motorsport activities are safer on the road. (Not if my son's anything to go by. Cars don't actually handle like karts, whatever magazine road testers might say ...)
Finally, I caught an unusually good government TV ad the other evening featuring a biker going out for a ride and highlighting the potential hazards that, while not in any way his fault, could catch him out. These included spilt diesel, tractor pulling out of a blind field entrance, etc. As a cost effective starter, could we not do something similar to be distributed on DVD to all newly qualified drivers?
rsv gone! said:
Things our European cousins have tried (and may well still be using);
France - You used to see "90" stickers on the back of cars to denote new drivers, limited to 90kph.
Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
We have both. P1 drivers are limited to 90, P2 to 100France - You used to see "90" stickers on the back of cars to denote new drivers, limited to 90kph.
Italy - New drivers were (are?) limited to what cars they could drive, in terms of power to weight ratio.
Power to weight ration limits apply in Victoria, and a ban on turbo/supercharged/V8, high performance V6 cars in NSW
However, this means that new drivers cannot drive the family Merceded C200K/Saab 9-3 1.8t. Both relatively slow cars, but very, very safe cars, but are allowed to drive mid 90s 6 cylinder commodores and falcons. Relatively high powered RWD with no traction control and a suspension design that is elderly. Seems a bit odd really.
To be honest it doesn't seem like a good idea to me to make learner/inexperienced drivers travel 10 or 20 km/h slower than normal traffic - the likely effect is for traffic to build up behind them putting pressure on them to go faster, or making dangerous passing moves once they get frustrated.
In NZ we have a different progressive licensing system:
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/licensing/car/index.html
The system works well enough in principle, but most restricted licence drivers ignore the time and passenger restrictions ($400 fine if caught, I never was), and IMO the tests should be much harder than they are. The other problem here is that insurance isn't compulsory so something like 30% of drivers are uninsured, that combined with cheap and plentiful jap imports means you get incompetent teenage drivers thrashing round in badly modified, uninsured WRX/Evos etc too fast for them to handle.
In NZ we have a different progressive licensing system:
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/licensing/car/index.html
- Learners (age 15+) - multi-choice theory test on road rules, enables you to drive on the road when supervised by a driver who has had a full licence for 2 years+. Must display the yellow 'L' plates when driving. Until this you can't even start learning on the road.
- Restricted (after holding learners for 6+ months) - basic 20 min practical driving test, allows you to drive unsupervised during the day, but between 10pm and 5am you must be supervised (by a 2yrs+ full licenced driver as above), and not allowed to carry passengers without a supervisor. Also if you sit the test in an automatic you're only allowed to drive autos until you get your full licence.
- Full (after 18+ months on restricted, or 12 if you take a 'defensive driving' course) - 45 min practical driving test including commentary on hazards and a section at open-road speed.
The system works well enough in principle, but most restricted licence drivers ignore the time and passenger restrictions ($400 fine if caught, I never was), and IMO the tests should be much harder than they are. The other problem here is that insurance isn't compulsory so something like 30% of drivers are uninsured, that combined with cheap and plentiful jap imports means you get incompetent teenage drivers thrashing round in badly modified, uninsured WRX/Evos etc too fast for them to handle.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 27th March 00:56
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