Best Snow Traction Device

[p1esk]

BertBert said:

have to say though that the new tyres have *ruined* my fun. Before in the snow (on private land), just a touch of handbrake was all that was needed to get the back swinging around wonderfully. Now even with locked rears, they seem to just track very nicely.

Bert

Did you use the same bit of ground for both tests?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[BertBert]

Yep, similar conditions too.
Bert

[p1esk]

BertBert said:

Yep, similar conditions too.
Bert

Oh, right. Well that's me mystified again. It happens all the time.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[GW65]

I finally ventured out in my car on Sunday, still about 4-5 inches of virgin snow on the drive and packed snow on the road; the road has inclines and off-camber bends where I've seen quite a few cars and vans having problems. I managed to negotiate it all without any problems once I'd remembered to turn the traction-control off. The car? A Corvette with 430+bhp, RWD and Goodyear F1 Supercar tyres (which are very summery). What made it work? Firstly, it's got a flappy-paddle auto that lets you set off in 3rd gear and hold it there. Secondly, it's got an LSD which keeps the car moving even if only one rear tyre has some grip. Reverse gear was more of a challenge as it's so low and therefore much easier to lose traction, but not a show-stopper. Finally, I tried to minimise contact with any of the pedals, use engine-braking rather than the brakes, and read the conditions as far ahead as possible.

Don't get me wrong. I know it would struggle on steeper inclines or in very deep snow (ground clearance), but I do wonder how many stranded cars could have kept moving if manufacturers fitted mechanical LSDs rather than rely on electronics...and if people turned off the electronics in deeper snow. And it demonstrated the advantages of auto boxes with their smooth step-off and ability to start in a high-gear.

Edited by GW65 on Tuesday 12th January 07:20

[gdaybruce]

GW65 said:

I finally ventured out in my car on Sunday, still about 4-5 inches of virgin snow on the drive and packed snow on the road; the road has inclines and off-camber bends where I've seen quite a few cars and vans having problems. I managed to negotiate it all without any problems once I'd remembered to turn the traction-control off. The car? A Corvette with 430+bhp, RWD and Goodyear F1 Supercar tyres (which are very summery). What made it work? Firstly, it's got a flappy-paddle auto that lets you set off in 3rd gear and hold it there. Secondly, it's got an LSD which keeps the car moving even if only one rear tyre has some grip. Reverse gear was more of a challenge as it's so low and therefore much easier to lose traction, but not a show-stopper. Finally, I tried to minimise contact with any of the pedals, use engine-braking rather than the brakes, and read the conditions as far ahead as possible.

Don't get me wrong. I know it would struggle on steeper inclines or in very deep snow (ground clearance), but I do wonder how many stranded cars could have kept moving if manufacturers fitted mechanical LSDs rather than rely on electronics...and if people turned off the electronics in deeper snow. And it demonstrated the advantages of auto boxes with their smooth step-off and ability to start in a high-gear.

Edited by GW65 on Tuesday 12th January 07:20

Impressive! I've found it interesting to see how much difference in traction there's been between the snow we had before Christmas and the snow we had this month. Before Christmas, there was zero grip and I struggled to get off my own drive, which I never considered as being on a hill before. This month it has been much colder and I've found that the compacted snow has offered much more, and more consistent, grip.

With a manual, I generally set off in 2nd but I've found the traction control to be a real help, both for setting off and when rolling. I've experimented by switching it off and then back on again and the benefits on my car (with an open diff) are real. I took my MX5 out once and even with an LSD I decided that, while fun, it wasn't a great A to B proposition in the snow!

What I really miss in this weather, mind, is my old Subaru Legacy Estate which had a limited slip centre diff to ditribute torque to either axle. No electronic traction control but it reigned supreme in the snow.

[F i F]

gdaybruce said:

I've found it interesting to see how much difference in traction there's been between the snow we had before Christmas and the snow we had this month. Before Christmas, there was zero grip and I struggled to get off my own drive, which I never considered as being on a hill before. This month it has been much colder and I've found that the compacted snow has offered much more, and more consistent, grip.

Yes, there is definitely more grip in lower temperatures even on summer tyres. That I believe is because the snow gets some shear strength back, and any rutted ice you can get some grip as the tyres mould a little round the ridges and ruts.

When it's wet snow as it was in December there is just no shear strength. Also I believe in December there was an element of layering, ie ice, with a layer of water/slush, on top of which was fresh wet snow, the layers sliding over each other do make it very difficult.

The worst conditions for grip are, in my experience at least, conditions around zero where you have smooth ice with a film of water on top. We had this on Saturday on a square 90 right bend leading off our estate, where the temperature had risen, compacted snow had been polished mirror smooth and even with winter tyres at about walking pace the Volvo's DSC was just starting to trigger as it detected a bit of slip at the front end on the camber. There are a lot of alloy wheel impact marks on that kerb this year.

Edited by F i F on Tuesday 12th January 09:43

[paul.deitch]

Had to use chains today (already have winter tyres) in deepest snow covered Germany to get out of a country lane. Took longer to fit and remove them than to escape the problem. But well worth their cost. Always travel with them in winter, just in case.

[TonyHetherington]

Mrs Muttleysnoop said:

Don said:

Assuming proper Winter Tyres and changing them over isn't happening. What's the best device for a Front Wheel Drive car to aid traction in snow and ice. Please comment as to why or what your experience has been with them if you would.

Number 1 Brain

Number 2 Gentle right foot using soft soled shoes ie race boots

Number 3 Start off in the right gear


The 10 people who got stuck in our road with a steep incline and a 90 degree turn in the snow in FWD cars were men, however 3 out of the 4 people who got up our road were woman the only man was my husband. We were all driving FWD cars ie 2 Renaults, 1 Fiat and 1 Ford Ka

Forgive my directing this at you, but your post is a good example of something which is frustrating me at the moment.

My point? You simply can't break the laws of physics.

Yes, we all agree that anticipation, smooth driving etc. etc. is the key to driving in snow, especially on our all-year-round tyres. But sometimes a 1.8tonne car really cannot be pulled up a hill by two small patches at the front.

You cite an example, making certain to note the sex of the drivers. I'd happily bet that the women were driving lighter cars than the men, and hence the reason they were able to negotiate the hill. You use a Ford KA as an example. I bet one of those foolish, lead footed men wasn't in a Ford KA.

So yes, we all know that you can drive sensibly in the snow and for 90% of cases that will work fine but please, please remember; you really cannot break the laws of physics.

[fatboy18]

Sorry to have to chip in here again, but THIS THREAD was supposed to be about Snow traction devices which you can purchase for your cars? There is another thread about winter driving.

Having just come back from a Ski Holiday in France, I stopped in a few motorway service stations on the way home, the main thing they seemed to be selling was the Auto Socks! They were not that cheap though, starting at over 80 Euros, but I guess if you need them there their!

Just had a look on eBay searching Snow Socks, lots of other makes now showing up all with the same concept

One of the US Viper owners also came up with a temporary idea to get his car out of the garage on a snow covered driveway, He used some approx 12mm thick rope wrapped through the wheel spokes pulled tightly across the width of the tyre and tightened on the outside. Not saying this is a good idea on major roads, but it might get you out of trouble for a few meters Just make sure you have the internal clearance from the brake calipers / wheel rim

Edited by fatboy18 on Tuesday 12th January 12:55

[TonyHetherington]

Pah, I was on my high horse and everything.

[y2blade]

Stevesh said:

Those socks look good in the company videos. I would be interested in hearing from someone who has used them for an impartial view of their effectiveness.

Steve

I have
copied from here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...



they are truly amazing, the hill I stopped my FWD Volvo on is VERY steep with no grit.. it is very hard to cycle up (bottom gear on the mountain bike), and Thurs night the Quad was wheel spinning just to maintain a steady speed...the car just gripped and pulled away without any wheel slip at all

this is the first time I've tried them
I honestly didn't think they would make that much difference

the Socks are made of a very thick fabric and need to be removed on clear Tarmac, I am still getting a AWD car ahead of next winter as it would be a pain to keep stopping to remove them as I get to within 1 mile of work...and the same again to come home

---

see below...don't worry about the "fitted over winter tyres" bit
I emailed them to ask the question and they said it wouldn't matter what tyres the socks are fitted over, they would work the same with slicks or winter tyres underneath as the tread does nothing once they are fitted

Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 12th January 10:50

[fatboy18]

Your'e going to love this one Here's another idea

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tyre-wheel-grips-easier-than...

YouTube Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjEkMtER1j0

Edited by fatboy18 on Tuesday 12th January 11:36

[Rugbyrice88]

as with most driving conditions the best policy is actually knowing how to drive
Why do people insist on revving the nuts out of there engine when stuck in the snow, not to mention the 4x4 drivers who can pull off in the snow but fail to realise that stopping on ice is still difficult despite the drive to all 4 wheels (news flash people it doesn't work) slow down!!! i've not got stuck yet, play it slow pull off in 2nd and just enjoy watching the idiots slide into fences and the like

[spoonoff]

Bravo to the above comment -every car has 4 wheel braking- the amount of 4x4s I have seen driving as fast or faster around residential roads in the last 2 weeks... Chunky tyres will help you stop, but many are on normal road tyres with a larger than average footprint.

[Zod]

Having spent years living in Germany, I have a habit of buying an extra set of wheels and witner tyres. I also have a set of spikesspiders snow chains.

We live on a steep hill. Last year, in the January and February snowfalls I was able to drive up the hill from a standing start without the chains. Last Wednesday, I couldn't get enough traction for a hill start, even with winter tyres, so I had to put on the chains just to move 100m and then remove them at the top.

I have an easy comparison of the difference in traction between summer and winter tyres, owning two rwd cars with powerful engines. Only the BMW has winter tyres. Only the BMW can move on our hill in the snow.

Edited by Zod on Tuesday 12th January 18:49

[Nigel Worc's]

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

[Zod]

My BMW was fine again in the fresh snow this morning. No need for chains, just a hint of countersteering every time the rear tyres slipped on the way up the snow-covered hill. Winter tyres plus LSD help a lot, together with careful application of the right foot.

[p1esk]

Nigel Worc's said:

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

I've been having the same sort of trouble with Eileen's MX-5. It was quite startling to find just how little traction it had. I used to think the 406 was not particularly good, but it's far better than the Mazda.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[SVS]

Zod said:

... a hint of countersteering every time the rear tyres slipped on the way up the snow-covered hill ...

Countersteering? Is it a BMW motorbike then?

[F i F]

p1esk said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

I've been having the same sort of trouble with Eileen's MX-5. It was quite startling to find just how little traction it had. I used to think the 406 was not particularly good, but it's far better than the Mazda.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm saying nuffink.