Best Snow Traction Device

[p1esk]

F i F said:

p1esk said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

I've been having the same sort of trouble with Eileen's MX-5. It was quite startling to find just how little traction it had. I used to think the 406 was not particularly good, but it's far better than the Mazda.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm saying nuffink.

That's a relief. Maybe I should try that more often: it'd save me a heap of trouble.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Nigel Worc's]

p1esk said:

F i F said:

p1esk said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

I've been having the same sort of trouble with Eileen's MX-5. It was quite startling to find just how little traction it had. I used to think the 406 was not particularly good, but it's far better than the Mazda.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm saying nuffink.

That's a relief. Maybe I should try that more often: it'd save me a heap of trouble.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I live in a block of four houses, the cars these houses have are as follows :

1 x Kia Pro-ceed
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 GS
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 SI
1 x Skoda Fabia
1 x BMW 518i estate
1 x Renault Clio
1 x Citroen saxo
1 x BMW 740i
1 x Kia Picanto

All on summer tyres, no snow chains etc, guess which two will not climb the hill to leave the estate ?

[F i F]

Nigel Worc's said:

p1esk said:

F i F said:

p1esk said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

I've been having the same sort of trouble with Eileen's MX-5. It was quite startling to find just how little traction it had. I used to think the 406 was not particularly good, but it's far better than the Mazda.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm saying nuffink.

That's a relief. Maybe I should try that more often: it'd save me a heap of trouble.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I live in a block of four houses, the cars these houses have are as follows :

1 x Kia Pro-ceed
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 GS
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 SI
1 x Skoda Fabia
1 x BMW 518i estate
1 x Renault Clio
1 x Citroen saxo
1 x BMW 740i
1 x Kia Picanto

All on summer tyres, no snow chains etc, guess which two will not climb the hill to leave the estate ?

What's with the Kia fest?

My Mrs Fabia couldn't get up our drive on the OEM stuff, and that slopes so little that water just about runs off it when washing cars.

[fatboy18]

Thread Hijack

[Nigel Worc's]

fatboy18 said:

Thread Hijack

[Nigel Worc's]

F i F said:

Nigel Worc's said:

p1esk said:

F i F said:

p1esk said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Nothing useful to add, just thought I'd vent my spleen and add, for better grip in the snow, make sure it doesn't have a BMW badge, mine is an effing embarrassment !

I've been having the same sort of trouble with Eileen's MX-5. It was quite startling to find just how little traction it had. I used to think the 406 was not particularly good, but it's far better than the Mazda.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm saying nuffink.

That's a relief. Maybe I should try that more often: it'd save me a heap of trouble.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I live in a block of four houses, the cars these houses have are as follows :

1 x Kia Pro-ceed
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 GS
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 SI
1 x Skoda Fabia
1 x BMW 518i estate
1 x Renault Clio
1 x Citroen saxo
1 x BMW 740i
1 x Kia Picanto

All on summer tyres, no snow chains etc, guess which two will not climb the hill to leave the estate ?

What's with the Kia fest?

My Mrs Fabia couldn't get up our drive on the OEM stuff, and that slopes so little that water just about runs off it when washing cars.

I've found my daughters fabia to be very good, but its a 2000 model, and is no longer on oem tyres, its on budgets called "runway", and they seem to be good.

The Kia fest is, my wife replaced her suzuki swift with a picanto, back in 06, it was so good at what it does, and had been no trouble at all, that my neighbour, who was going to part exchange his P plate RS2000 for a Focus, tried and liked the pro-ceed, his wife then bought a ceed, my wife changed her picanto for a ceed, and the lady on the end had the picanto !

So we look like a Kia showroom, and I have to admit, they do seem very nice cars.

I'm not having one though, I either fancy an X type jag, or an S60 ovlov as my next runabout.

[waremark]

Nigel Worc's said:

I live in a block of four houses, the cars these houses have are as follows :

1 x Kia Pro-ceed
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 GS
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 SI
1 x Skoda Fabia
1 x BMW 518i estate
1 x Renault Clio
1 x Citroen saxo
1 x BMW 740i
1 x Kia Picanto

All on summer tyres, no snow chains etc, guess which two will not climb the hill to leave the estate ?

Hi Nigel. Sure the cars with the engine over the driven wheels will have a small advantage; but that advantage is minute compared to the advantage that winter tyres would give. Fit winter tyres to the BMW's and they will be far far better than fwd cars on summer tyres. In choosing a BMW, on my encouragement my son accepted that having a set of wheels with winter tyres on it was part of the deal. On his recent trip to the Alps through heavy snow he was in convoy with a Renault Laguna. The BMW was better uphill than the Laguna, even when the Laguna was using chains and the BMW was not. And of course the BMW could brake and steer as well. Surely for a man who drives as much as you it makes sense to use winter tyres from October to March? (BTW, I do not have winter tyres for my BMW, but I don't have to use it in the ice and snow.)

[Nigel Worc's]

waremark said:

Nigel Worc's said:

I live in a block of four houses, the cars these houses have are as follows :

1 x Kia Pro-ceed
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 GS
1 x Kia Ceed 1.4 SI
1 x Skoda Fabia
1 x BMW 518i estate
1 x Renault Clio
1 x Citroen saxo
1 x BMW 740i
1 x Kia Picanto

All on summer tyres, no snow chains etc, guess which two will not climb the hill to leave the estate ?

Hi Nigel. Sure the cars with the engine over the driven wheels will have a small advantage; but that advantage is minute compared to the advantage that winter tyres would give. Fit winter tyres to the BMW's and they will be far far better than fwd cars on summer tyres. In choosing a BMW, on my encouragement my son accepted that having a set of wheels with winter tyres on it was part of the deal. On his recent trip to the Alps through heavy snow he was in convoy with a Renault Laguna. The BMW was better uphill than the Laguna, even when the Laguna was using chains and the BMW was not. And of course the BMW could brake and steer as well. Surely for a man who drives as much as you it makes sense to use winter tyres from October to March? (BTW, I do not have winter tyres for my BMW, but I don't have to use it in the ice and snow.)

If this weather becomes the norm, then winter tyres I shall have, if it happens once every 20 years, or so, then I wont bother.

I get the government allowance to supply a car for work, 40p for the first ten thousand miles, 25p thereafter.

It does about 30 to the gallon, petrol is about £1.13 a litre here, you do the maths.

It is, in a strange way, actually laughable how little grip these two beemers have, compared to the budget cars I am comparing them with, away from snow, compared to these budget cars, the beemers are of course superb..

[JohnMW]

All interesting stuff - ICE has the lowest coeficient of friction we will ever come across on any road. Without getting too technical - the more weight you have over the driven wheels the better the adhesion for what it's worth very marginal on hard ice. Deciding whether to use chains, or different tyres etc depends on what the conditions are - in snow of most kinds there is a useful amount of traction until it compacts and freezes. At this stage chains are usefull as a temporary measure to get moving off any slope then get them off ASAP. During this recent episode I never had to put my chains on and managed to pass many who were simply going nowhere. Most were allowing the wheels to spin - big mistake - once the wheel spins at all the coefficient of friction changes from static to dynamic and the two are significantly different. Where it seems impossible to stop it spinning often allowing the vehicle to reverse off the wet spot will allow enough enertia to keep it going again forward. Front wheel drives are better since the wheel can be altered via steering but only up to a specific slope angle after which the centre of gravity falls aft of the drive shaft. It is possible that on some high angle slopes a rear wheel drive can benefit if the boot is weighted up and passengers fill the rear seats. Having said all this higher slopes are to be avoided since the car becomes a tobogan and lethal on hard ice even with chains on - remember ice as hard as steel is just like steel to steel and cannot be penetrated.

Rather that be switching tyres or fitting the chains I would carry a bag of salt as a good measure for getting some enertia when stuck - highest gear, lowest throttle always. When we used to get regular bad winters I have fitted a tank filled with high concentration of salt water with a pipe to the front of each driven wheel set with a simple dribble device. When required I would open the clips, wait a few mins then hey presto off again. It makes no difference what make of car your in - it's all about weight and good driving technique.

Hope this helps a bit.

Edited by JohnMW on Tuesday 26th January 23:22

[deviant]

I have read of people using cable ties to make a rough and ready set of snow chains.

If you link a few together they should go through your wheel and across the tyre, you can link them so that you have a row of the zipper bits close together and you put these across the tyre to act as studs.

They will fall to bits pretty quickly once you get moving but I would think the idea is sound and it will get you going again.

[JohnMW]

Hi
I tried it but it does not work on ice - the material is to soft and rip apart when to much strain is put on the locking device. But I had a thought that a strap using the same principle but made of metal - maybe a cable might work. My chains are very quick to fit and with practice I do it in 10 mins per wheel - not for the faint heated in driving snow on a dark night. I won't fit them on my Beemer - the chains would ruin the alloys with low profile tyres chewing up the luvely finish. I'm working on a tank to fit with same idea I used years ago, it also adds weight to the drive wheels and simple to make. Great for rear wheel drives.

Edited by JohnMW on Wednesday 27th January 15:26

[paul.deitch]

My grandfather used to use canvas straps with metal links on the rear wheels of his grey ex-WD Austin pickup in the early '50s when driving on lots of snow. Ah what memories. Canvas cover at the back, no heater and the petrol/exhaust smelt different.

[F i F]

Mr Salt solution, what would you do when the temperature is below the freezing point of even a eutectic mixture?

Then let's assume it isn't that cold but only -10C say, when you'd poured the eutectic mixture onto the ground what would the effective strength be and what would the effective freezing / melting point of the salt solution/snow/ground ice then be?

[JohnMW]

F i F said:

Mr Salt solution, what would you do when the temperature is below the freezing point of even a eutectic mixture?

Then let's assume it isn't that cold but only -10C say, when you'd poured the eutectic mixture onto the ground what would the effective strength be and what would the effective freezing / melting point of the salt solution/snow/ground ice then be?

Well the answer is quite simple - stop at home, leave the car in the cosy garage, turn the central heating up a bit, watch Tony Blair give a riveting account on Iraq etc etc. But seriously there are always exceptions to rules and limits to consider. In this instance it was just an account of what I did in past experience. As to how strong to make the "eutectic mixture". Fill a decent size tub of water carry some cheap bags of table salt, about £1 per kg from Netto, pour in a couple of bags of the stuff using a funnel bought from Screwfix so you don't have it all over the boot then dribble it around the tyre contact area, if it turned the ice into water within a minute great, I get going a bit further, hopefully a lot further. If not pour in some more salt and try again - it's known in the Bodgers trade as "Trial and Error"

Edited by JohnMW on Friday 29th January 13:59

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Spiked Tyres!

generally, a good set of snow tyres, shovel and a bit of carpet/something grippy is all you need, plus a good ratchet strap/hand winch in case things get really bad!

Usual survival gear too!

Water, food, source of heat (other than car heaters), warm clothing, sleeping bag etc

[y2blade]

Rich lol at you bumping up all the snow threads...good work fella

[fatboy18]

Nice one, that's scary though, I was thinking about a spare set of winter Tires and wheels today before coming home to find this thread bumped

[loomx]

4WD helps lol.

[Rockape]

Surely alot has to be down to the way a car is driven. Last winter (during the worst of the snow, which was the worst I have seen since I moved up here), I drove my V70 with rubbish barum tyres from Elgin to the Lecht, taking in the famous A939 Tomintoul Cockbridge road. The worst part was between Ballindaloch and Tomintoul. The journey took the best part of two hours. But the brother in law only had to get out and push twice after we stopped to help others who had left the road.

[reggie82]

Rockape said:

Surely alot has to be down to the way a car is driven. Last winter (during the worst of the snow, which was the worst I have seen since I moved up here), I drove my V70 with rubbish barum tyres from Elgin to the Lecht, taking in the famous A939 Tomintoul Cockbridge road. The worst part was between Ballindaloch and Tomintoul. The journey took the best part of two hours. But the brother in law only had to get out and push twice after we stopped to help others who had left the road.

How it's driven has something to do with it, but I don't think anywhere near as much as winter tyres.

Winter tyres aren't just about being able to get places either, they're also about being able to stop when you need to etc.