The problem of young male drivers
Discussion
First post in this forum, so hello all 
Have been watching this thread develop and lots of interesting points raised.
I too shudder at some of the things that I did in cars in my 'yoof'.
With regard to limiting engine size for a period - is this not something that they have done with bikes for a number of years now?
I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that an improved knowledge of the mechanics of that thing you are piloting at (potentially) 70 mph might help the situation.
I'm pretty sure that GCSE level physics covers friction, hydraulics and momentum (all things that apply to cars) - why not take the opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone and use relevant car / driving examples in the national curriculum?
I know that this is not really 'driver training', but every little helps. At 17 I was comfortable holding my car on a hill using nowt but the clutch - but a number of years of driveway mechanics (for fiscal reasons) meant that I learned enough to show a little mechanical sympathy.
Of course, that assumes that students might actually be 'bovvered' by these things - but I know that I was.
Anyhow, it's only a thought - between us we can come up with the perfect driver training and education system. Then the government can totally ignore us
Have been watching this thread develop and lots of interesting points raised.
I too shudder at some of the things that I did in cars in my 'yoof'.
With regard to limiting engine size for a period - is this not something that they have done with bikes for a number of years now?
I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that an improved knowledge of the mechanics of that thing you are piloting at (potentially) 70 mph might help the situation.
I'm pretty sure that GCSE level physics covers friction, hydraulics and momentum (all things that apply to cars) - why not take the opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone and use relevant car / driving examples in the national curriculum?
I know that this is not really 'driver training', but every little helps. At 17 I was comfortable holding my car on a hill using nowt but the clutch - but a number of years of driveway mechanics (for fiscal reasons) meant that I learned enough to show a little mechanical sympathy.
Of course, that assumes that students might actually be 'bovvered' by these things - but I know that I was.
Anyhow, it's only a thought - between us we can come up with the perfect driver training and education system. Then the government can totally ignore us
FormulaCrew said:
First post in this forum, so hello all
Have been watching this thread develop and lots of interesting points raised.
I too shudder at some of the things that I did in cars in my 'yoof'.
With regard to limiting engine size for a period - is this not something that they have done with bikes for a number of years now?
I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that an improved knowledge of the mechanics of that thing you are piloting at (potentially) 70 mph might help the situation.
I'm pretty sure that GCSE level physics covers friction, hydraulics and momentum (all things that apply to cars) - why not take the opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone and use relevant car / driving examples in the national curriculum?
I know that this is not really 'driver training', but every little helps. At 17 I was comfortable holding my car on a hill using nowt but the clutch - but a number of years of driveway mechanics (for fiscal reasons) meant that I learned enough to show a little mechanical sympathy.
Of course, that assumes that students might actually be 'bovvered' by these things - but I know that I was.
Anyhow, it's only a thought - between us we can come up with the perfect driver training and education system. Then the government can totally ignore us
I think it's a fair point that a bit of mechanical / technical knowledge helps. And I also agree that driveway maintenance and repairs help to improve mechanical sympathy! (Actually, on a more general note I'm continually amazed at how many people take the attitude that science in general and engineering in particular is somehow beneath them. Not only do they not know how things work, they don't want to know! Considering our history as the originators of the industrial revolution and the fact that our whole way of life is 100% dependent on science and engineering, I find this ridiculous. Must be all sorts of reasons why modern British society thinks like this but it's not doing us any favours.)Have been watching this thread develop and lots of interesting points raised.
I too shudder at some of the things that I did in cars in my 'yoof'.
With regard to limiting engine size for a period - is this not something that they have done with bikes for a number of years now?
I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that an improved knowledge of the mechanics of that thing you are piloting at (potentially) 70 mph might help the situation.
I'm pretty sure that GCSE level physics covers friction, hydraulics and momentum (all things that apply to cars) - why not take the opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone and use relevant car / driving examples in the national curriculum?
I know that this is not really 'driver training', but every little helps. At 17 I was comfortable holding my car on a hill using nowt but the clutch - but a number of years of driveway mechanics (for fiscal reasons) meant that I learned enough to show a little mechanical sympathy.
Of course, that assumes that students might actually be 'bovvered' by these things - but I know that I was.
Anyhow, it's only a thought - between us we can come up with the perfect driver training and education system. Then the government can totally ignore us
Anyway, back to the point in hand, a bit of knowledge about momentum and the tendency for moving objects to continue in a straight line surely wouldn't do any harm! As the man said, every little helps!
Just coming back to this.
I've noticed in recent months I'm taking a few more risks with driving. Getting a bit more feel for the car, more used to it, and feel I know the foibles a bit more.
So as a result I'm going to sell it. Basically I'm starting to drive like a t
t again. Not speeding everywhere, but probably taking corners and roundabouts to fast, things like that. It may sound weird but because my car is slow on the straights I feel I have to prove it's worth through the corners.
On the other hand I've been driving an e36 M3 a bit recently as well. Very similar to my car in shape, but I drive it very differently. More relaxed basically. Over my favourite stretch of uphill road (only short but very fun) I was actually slower in the M3 than my own car. It wasn't that I wasn't used to the car. Just that I didn't feel the need to prove anything.
I don't know why, but it is useful to do some soul searching over these matters.
I've noticed in recent months I'm taking a few more risks with driving. Getting a bit more feel for the car, more used to it, and feel I know the foibles a bit more.
So as a result I'm going to sell it. Basically I'm starting to drive like a t
t again. Not speeding everywhere, but probably taking corners and roundabouts to fast, things like that. It may sound weird but because my car is slow on the straights I feel I have to prove it's worth through the corners. On the other hand I've been driving an e36 M3 a bit recently as well. Very similar to my car in shape, but I drive it very differently. More relaxed basically. Over my favourite stretch of uphill road (only short but very fun) I was actually slower in the M3 than my own car. It wasn't that I wasn't used to the car. Just that I didn't feel the need to prove anything.
I don't know why, but it is useful to do some soul searching over these matters.
Whatever you do, be it salsa dancing, knitting, playing a sport, whatever. Practice hard and you will learn the basics after a year. After 3 years you will be good, but it takes over 10 years to master something. Its just the way our minds and bodies work. The chinese refer to it as Kung Fu (nothing to do with kicks and punches), its a learning process your body goes through by repetition.
This is why young drivers have more crashes. young Male? I believe its in our make up, not to be fearful. Must have helped when hunting in caves full of Bears!
The driving test teaches you all about rules and road regulations, but has VERY little to do with road craft. The test needs not be harder, its hard enough as it is.
We should instead include a simplified version of advance road driving tests and techniques. Teach young drivers how to 'read' a road, and the crashes will come down.
The speed kills campaigners are not helping either, we are all Petrol heads on this forum and know innapropriate speed is the killer. Its like when we were tellin kids to stop smokin dope cause it was a killer drug. I probably never wouldve toked if they told me it would make me lazy & forgetful!
This is why young drivers have more crashes. young Male? I believe its in our make up, not to be fearful. Must have helped when hunting in caves full of Bears!
The driving test teaches you all about rules and road regulations, but has VERY little to do with road craft. The test needs not be harder, its hard enough as it is.
We should instead include a simplified version of advance road driving tests and techniques. Teach young drivers how to 'read' a road, and the crashes will come down.
The speed kills campaigners are not helping either, we are all Petrol heads on this forum and know innapropriate speed is the killer. Its like when we were tellin kids to stop smokin dope cause it was a killer drug. I probably never wouldve toked if they told me it would make me lazy & forgetful!
FormulaCrew said:
With regard to limiting engine size for a period - is this not something that they have done with bikes for a number of years now?
Not getting at you personally as this comes up quite often...and I can't see that it would help.My impression (and it is just that), is that youngsters in accidents are generally driving 1.0 - 1.2 corsas, fiestas etc - small cars with small engines. I don't think that there are lots of accidents caused by young guys in 2 litre cars.
If this is the case, would limiting engine size actually achieve anything? What do you limit it to? Limiting to, say, 1.2 would, I'm sure, not have any great effect on accident statistics because most young people are effectively limited to that anyway, by insurance. Further, new drivers in search of fun can and will go fast enough to get themselves in trouble in a 800cc matiz, quite easily.
Happy to be proved wrong if the stats show otherwise, this is just my impression based on anecdotal evidence.
GhostDriver said:
Whatever you do, be it salsa dancing, knitting, playing a sport, whatever. Practice hard and you will learn the basics after a year. After 3 years you will be good, but it takes over 10 years to master something. Its just the way our minds and bodies work. The chinese refer to it as Kung Fu (nothing to do with kicks and punches), its a learning process your body goes through by repetition.
This is why young drivers have more crashes. young Male? I believe its in our make up, not to be fearful. Must have helped when hunting in caves full of Bears!
The driving test teaches you all about rules and road regulations, but has VERY little to do with road craft. The test needs not be harder, its hard enough as it is.
We should instead include a simplified version of advance road driving tests and techniques. Teach young drivers how to 'read' a road, and the crashes will come down.
The speed kills campaigners are not helping either, we are all Petrol heads on this forum and know innapropriate speed is the killer. Its like when we were tellin kids to stop smokin dope cause it was a killer drug. I probably never wouldve toked if they told me it would make me lazy & forgetful!
This is why young drivers have more crashes. young Male? I believe its in our make up, not to be fearful. Must have helped when hunting in caves full of Bears!
The driving test teaches you all about rules and road regulations, but has VERY little to do with road craft. The test needs not be harder, its hard enough as it is.
We should instead include a simplified version of advance road driving tests and techniques. Teach young drivers how to 'read' a road, and the crashes will come down.
The speed kills campaigners are not helping either, we are all Petrol heads on this forum and know innapropriate speed is the killer. Its like when we were tellin kids to stop smokin dope cause it was a killer drug. I probably never wouldve toked if they told me it would make me lazy & forgetful!
Well said, GD, thank you for that - and welcome to the forum.
It's been my feeling for a while that what now passes for advanced driving isn't particularly advanced at all. It's largely what drivers should be doing anyhow, and it ought to be incorporated into the basic training/testing of all new drivers as soon as possible.
What we should also be doing is trying to get the message across to new young drivers that they'll impress a lot more people by producing good driving, rather than tearing about in a wild fashion. The latter might impress their peers - until it goes badly wrong - but we need to try to get away from that. They can still have a lot of fun and enjoyment from driving - including the use of high speeds as far as I'm concerned - but they need to learn to do it properly, as some of the youngsters are showing in their posts here. We need to be focussing on that and building on it.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
The Black Flash said:
FormulaCrew said:
With regard to limiting engine size for a period - is this not something that they have done with bikes for a number of years now?
Happy to be proved wrong if the stats show otherwise, this is just my impression based on anecdotal evidence.p1esk said:
It's been my feeling for a while that what now passes for advanced driving isn't particularly advanced at all. It's largely what drivers should be doing anyhow, and it ought to be incorporated into the basic training/testing of all new drivers as soon as possible.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Having just completed my IAM test i'm inclined to agree. It's not so advanced when I was doing a lot of it since I passed my test. I'm not saying this as a 'wow look at me' statement, merely that even someone with half a brain should be able to work a lot of it out themselves. Only they don't...because it isn't cool....Best wishes all,
Dave.
Hi all, Not read through this post, but merely scanned through it and wanted to add my two-penneth...
Bit of background to my views: Im 21, Drive a Volvo (Grandads Car to some, Supercar to others), The insurance company seem to think im going to kill myself and others and charge me £2600 for the pleasure! OUCH!
Ive been involved in one minor collision, in the wet & below the speed limit, not tailgating etc, Audi A4 in front slams on for an idiot pulling out, I slammed on in the old Rover 214 and aqua-planed, I cadence Braked and steered into the grass at the edge of the road in a vain effort to stop, We just kissed bumpers, leaving a scuff on both cars.
Ive been Caught Speeding Twice -
Once on a motorway - Laser Gun in a Police Car, 3 points etc
Once on a Main Road, Overtaking a caravan, Council Run Laser Gun Van
I do around 1500 miles a week with work.
Ive completed the Pass Plus & Passed my test with flying colours & have been driving off road since I was 9 so I have pretty good car control.
My Opinion:
Limiting engine size, Speed limiters etc will not work, a small engined car will still go too fast for some circumstances, speed limiters will still allow them to do 60/70 round a tight bend & WILL HINDER THERE PROGRESS DURING OVERTAKES making a head on more likley!
Improving Driver Training - Definatly a good idea, I really want to do my advanced driving course.. more on that in a sec! and try to improve my driving by reading publications such as roadcraft etc
Ive asked my insurance company, and several others what discount they would offer me for doing any advanced driving courses - NONE AT ALL was the answer in all but one case, where it INCREASED the premium because i was more likley to drive fast???
So, to sum up, limiting engine sizes Wont work, Encoraging Drivers (OF ALL AGES) to improve their driving - Probably will, but why bother when its only going to Cost you money for the training, and in some cases INCREASE your insurance??
Another Idea would be to have On-Board Video or Black Boxes, this would make me think about my driving, because if i was involved in an accident it would all be on tape!!!
In the meantime, lets watch carnage occour on the roads, and for the ones who bother to insure their cars, a VERY EXPENSIVE premium!!
N.B. that £2600 does include fully comp, class 1 business use & millions of miles a week!
Bit of background to my views: Im 21, Drive a Volvo (Grandads Car to some, Supercar to others), The insurance company seem to think im going to kill myself and others and charge me £2600 for the pleasure! OUCH!
Ive been involved in one minor collision, in the wet & below the speed limit, not tailgating etc, Audi A4 in front slams on for an idiot pulling out, I slammed on in the old Rover 214 and aqua-planed, I cadence Braked and steered into the grass at the edge of the road in a vain effort to stop, We just kissed bumpers, leaving a scuff on both cars.
Ive been Caught Speeding Twice -
Once on a motorway - Laser Gun in a Police Car, 3 points etc
Once on a Main Road, Overtaking a caravan, Council Run Laser Gun Van
I do around 1500 miles a week with work.
Ive completed the Pass Plus & Passed my test with flying colours & have been driving off road since I was 9 so I have pretty good car control.
My Opinion:
Limiting engine size, Speed limiters etc will not work, a small engined car will still go too fast for some circumstances, speed limiters will still allow them to do 60/70 round a tight bend & WILL HINDER THERE PROGRESS DURING OVERTAKES making a head on more likley!
Improving Driver Training - Definatly a good idea, I really want to do my advanced driving course.. more on that in a sec! and try to improve my driving by reading publications such as roadcraft etc
Ive asked my insurance company, and several others what discount they would offer me for doing any advanced driving courses - NONE AT ALL was the answer in all but one case, where it INCREASED the premium because i was more likley to drive fast???
So, to sum up, limiting engine sizes Wont work, Encoraging Drivers (OF ALL AGES) to improve their driving - Probably will, but why bother when its only going to Cost you money for the training, and in some cases INCREASE your insurance??
Another Idea would be to have On-Board Video or Black Boxes, this would make me think about my driving, because if i was involved in an accident it would all be on tape!!!
In the meantime, lets watch carnage occour on the roads, and for the ones who bother to insure their cars, a VERY EXPENSIVE premium!!
N.B. that £2600 does include fully comp, class 1 business use & millions of miles a week!
don't you think though that young drivers are discriminated agaisnt?
To cut a long story short a drunk motercyclist hit ME FROM BEHIND but managed to somehow regain control just before hitting a wall at about 60 wearing a skateboarders helmet.
Now i would of thought it would of been obvious to the police but when interviewed they kept hinting that i had run him off the road. As they had taken pictures of evrything I said to them
It obvious he hit me from behind from the marks on the back. If i had hit him then there would be scuffs on the front of the car. Now im done helping you.
I walked out thinking im gonna get arrested but they didnt
And i found out that he was very drunk and his death is considered an accident.
If it had been an old woman driving a micra would they have done the same? I dont think so
To cut a long story short a drunk motercyclist hit ME FROM BEHIND but managed to somehow regain control just before hitting a wall at about 60 wearing a skateboarders helmet.
Now i would of thought it would of been obvious to the police but when interviewed they kept hinting that i had run him off the road. As they had taken pictures of evrything I said to them
It obvious he hit me from behind from the marks on the back. If i had hit him then there would be scuffs on the front of the car. Now im done helping you.
I walked out thinking im gonna get arrested but they didnt
And i found out that he was very drunk and his death is considered an accident.
If it had been an old woman driving a micra would they have done the same? I dont think so
I dont think age really has much to do with it, i belive its the education the person gets. Yesterday i seen 2 knobend drivers, both in the 30's.
One in a new Clio Sport, another in some pile of cack. Both where doing 80~90 and undertaking others. Now, i undertook someone yesterday. I was going along doing 70, some reason there was a women in the fast lane doing 60.
These guys where cutting back and forth, twice a car went to move over to the left lane to let the Clio through, Clio went to undertake and had to mash on the brakes.
I past 3 or 4 young drivers from 18-20. They where just plodding along doing 65 in the inside lane. Clear age difference and a clear difference in education and IQ
One in a new Clio Sport, another in some pile of cack. Both where doing 80~90 and undertaking others. Now, i undertook someone yesterday. I was going along doing 70, some reason there was a women in the fast lane doing 60.
These guys where cutting back and forth, twice a car went to move over to the left lane to let the Clio through, Clio went to undertake and had to mash on the brakes.
I past 3 or 4 young drivers from 18-20. They where just plodding along doing 65 in the inside lane. Clear age difference and a clear difference in education and IQ
One thing I've noticed is that as soon as they get their licences, they suddenly think they know everything about cars - honestly, these two guys tried to convince me that Audi was not part of the VW group!
On another occasion, a guy was saying how he got a lift with a mate who was driving his dad's 3.2 E320CDI... to make matters worse, another guy says no way, it's a 2l because of the '20' by following bmw nomenclature, even quoting a 745i as an example, which he believed was a 4.5, when it's a 4.4. So, does that mean a C180 has an 8l engine?!
These are the idiots who refer to their cars as being 'rapid'. And to think these 'idiots' are people going to top universities really makes you question the system in place. IQ really doesn't have anything to do with it. It's their attitudes that are at fault. They don't seem to recognise that their cars are pretty weak in comparison with cars in general and discuss who's car would be quicker based purely on cubic capacity and start talking about turbos etc as if they have a degree in automotive engineering
As a result, I have been putting off learning to drive here for 18mths now as i can guarantee being pressured into taking part with their immature behaviour, although I'd like to see them learn to drive in India like I did and see how they survive. Seeing these people being so immature behind the wheel makes me question my own integrity being a petrolhead who could ID a car from a mile away from a young age. Instead I'll probably get a racing licence and hopefully keep all the fun to the track.
On another occasion, a guy was saying how he got a lift with a mate who was driving his dad's 3.2 E320CDI... to make matters worse, another guy says no way, it's a 2l because of the '20' by following bmw nomenclature, even quoting a 745i as an example, which he believed was a 4.5, when it's a 4.4. So, does that mean a C180 has an 8l engine?!
These are the idiots who refer to their cars as being 'rapid'. And to think these 'idiots' are people going to top universities really makes you question the system in place. IQ really doesn't have anything to do with it. It's their attitudes that are at fault. They don't seem to recognise that their cars are pretty weak in comparison with cars in general and discuss who's car would be quicker based purely on cubic capacity and start talking about turbos etc as if they have a degree in automotive engineering
As a result, I have been putting off learning to drive here for 18mths now as i can guarantee being pressured into taking part with their immature behaviour, although I'd like to see them learn to drive in India like I did and see how they survive. Seeing these people being so immature behind the wheel makes me question my own integrity being a petrolhead who could ID a car from a mile away from a young age. Instead I'll probably get a racing licence and hopefully keep all the fun to the track.
Colonial said:
It may sound weird but because my car is slow on the straights I feel I have to prove it's worth through the corners.
On the other hand I've been driving an e36 M3 a bit recently as well. Very similar to my car in shape, but I drive it very differently. More relaxed basically. Over my favourite stretch of uphill road (only short but very fun) I was actually slower in the M3 than my own car. It wasn't that I wasn't used to the car. Just that I didn't feel the need to prove anything.
I don't think you're alone on this one. If you know you've got a good/fast/driveable car you don't have to prove anything, because you *know*. Every now and again when I'm wandering around at the speed limit(ish) I get overtaken. It's normally a young guy in a 1.2 Corsa (or similar) willing his car past mine and you can tell from the look on their face that they're thinking "oh yes, my car's faster than a sports car, check me out". It makes me smile every time On the other hand I've been driving an e36 M3 a bit recently as well. Very similar to my car in shape, but I drive it very differently. More relaxed basically. Over my favourite stretch of uphill road (only short but very fun) I was actually slower in the M3 than my own car. It wasn't that I wasn't used to the car. Just that I didn't feel the need to prove anything.
My car isn't ultra-fast but it's nippy enough and handles extremely well. I could leave them behind whenever I want. But because I know I can, I have no need to prove it. It probably helps that I'm a bit older too, and a bit more chilled out about these things.
JohnnyPanic said:
I don't think you're alone on this one. If you know you've got a good/fast/driveable car you don't have to prove anything, because you *know*. Every now and again when I'm wandering around at the speed limit(ish) I get overtaken. It's normally a young guy in a 1.2 Corsa (or similar) willing his car past mine and you can tell from the look on their face that they're thinking "oh yes, my car's faster than a sports car, check me out". It makes me smile every time
It annoys me when people say they've "raced" a 330i or whatever, they don't consider that the driver of the 330i wasn't even trying.Also many think their car is fast, but that's because it's the fastest car they've driven.
robwales said:
JohnnyPanic said:
I don't think you're alone on this one. If you know you've got a good/fast/driveable car you don't have to prove anything, because you *know*. Every now and again when I'm wandering around at the speed limit(ish) I get overtaken. It's normally a young guy in a 1.2 Corsa (or similar) willing his car past mine and you can tell from the look on their face that they're thinking "oh yes, my car's faster than a sports car, check me out". It makes me smile every time
It annoys me when people say they've "raced" a 330i or whatever, they don't consider that the driver of the 330i wasn't even trying.Also many think their car is fast, but that's because it's the fastest car they've driven.
Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
Do you feel the same if somebody says they are a better driver than you ?
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 12th April 17:18
vonhosen said:
robwales said:
It annoys me when people say they've "raced" a 330i or whatever, they don't consider that the driver of the 330i wasn't even trying.
Also many think their car is fast, but that's because it's the fastest car they've driven.
What annoys you about it ?Also many think their car is fast, but that's because it's the fastest car they've driven.
Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
Do you feel the same if somebody says they are a better driver than you ?
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 12th April 17:18
ts when they say it, and stupid tts are an annoyance. People who don't know better believe them, because they always speak like they know everything.I don't care if people say they are better drivers than me - those that actually are better would not say it. And no one has said that seriously to me.
I look back at some of the things I did as a younger driver (I'm 22 now, been driving since 17th birthday) and quite frankly its astonishingly lucky that I never had a stupidity related accident.
Some of the overtakes I used to do, which when i drive past now i think "how on earth did I used to overtake here?"
The problem is, when you are 17 and you can drive when some of your friends cant, you show off. You think girls are impressed by someone who can drive fast, after all its really cool. As you get older you realise that any idiot can put their foot down inappropriately.
Now, it makes my blood boil when i see a young lad do something stupid in their tin can. I just think its a simple case of growing up, maturing and realising that life isnt a game you can hit the reset button on when it goes wrong.
Some of the overtakes I used to do, which when i drive past now i think "how on earth did I used to overtake here?"
The problem is, when you are 17 and you can drive when some of your friends cant, you show off. You think girls are impressed by someone who can drive fast, after all its really cool. As you get older you realise that any idiot can put their foot down inappropriately.
Now, it makes my blood boil when i see a young lad do something stupid in their tin can. I just think its a simple case of growing up, maturing and realising that life isnt a game you can hit the reset button on when it goes wrong.
vonhosen said:
What annoys you about it ?
Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
Because when they tell impressionable young males, they then go out and try it and it could be me they try it on. I don't want to be involved in an accident i've caused myself, let alone an accident caused by someone who belived their 1.2 Corsa was fatser than my MX-5.Why do you care if they believe that their 1.2 Corsa is faster than a 330i ?
What adverse affect does it have on you ?
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