Slip road merging, why is it so hard?

[aturnick54]

Pit Pony said:

Despite living is Merseyside, whilst my daughter was learning to drive, we took her to the A50, between Derby and Stoke, to learn how to leave and join using a slip road. Much to her amusement, I made her come off at every junction, do 360 degs at the roundabout and then rejoin. It's actually harder than joining a motorway, because only 2 lanes, and no hard shoulder, (or the bottle out lane, as I like to call it)
(I had a contract in Derby at the time, so her and my wife came down for a few days to stay with me)

I think you're right, and also much less likely for a car in lane one to be able to move over into lane two to allow you to join on a two lane dual carriageway. You have to adapt your speed and find a suitable gap.

[aturnick54]

DanL said:

You were in an HGV doing 70 mph now, were you?

On the occasion in the original post, no. I was in a car.

[aturnick54]

Scarletpimpofnel said:

There is in fact an option where you join L1 BEHIND the car already in it; a brake pedal exists in addition to the accelerator pedal to allow this manoeuvre to take place!!!

I drive defensively where ever possible and my observations are that most argy-bargey on the roads is because the male of the species (always men) cannot and will not accept tucking in behind another road user instead of in front.

I a quite happy with drivers in L1 maintaining a constant speed as it's easy to judge where they'll be and decide to go in front or behind.

I agree with you. Many on this thread have commented that the vehicle in lane one should adjust their speed. When in fact it should be the vehicle joining that adjusts their speed to find a suitable gap instead.

Personally I'd prefer people in lane one to maintain speed when I'm joining so that we don't both end up speeding up/slowing down at the same time.

[aturnick54]

Ken_Code said:

Does your car not have the ability to turn off cruise control and adjust your speed?

You are genuinely coming across as the worst sort of driver here, arrogant, pompous and unable to take account of what’s coming up ahead.

So it is now the responsibility of the driver in lane one to adjust their speed for vehicles joining? If someone is dawdling along the slip road at 50mph am I expected to slow down to let them in?

I must have missed that part when I was taught to drive. In heavier traffic it will only cause more congestion.

I do find it bizarre in this thread that people are making excuses for other drivers poor planning when merging onto a motorway.

[aturnick54]

Forester1965 said:

It's obvious that some people will drive poorly as they enter from a slip road. We all know it. Nobody is excusing poor driving but we should all expect it.

The reason some people struggle with those joining is because they either don't anticipate the poor driving about to happen or they do but refuse to accomodate it.

So does this also mean we should be slowing down for every T junction that has a give way just in case somebody is a bad driver? You'd never make any progress if this were the case

[aturnick54]

carlo996 said:

Is this thread going as you'd hoped.

You really are part of the problem on the UK roads. I do hope this serves to educate you as to how to live an easier life?!

UK roads, because the general level of education of British drivers sucks. This problem simply doesn't exist in the continent. I drive thousands of miles a year in the UK and abroad, I have only ever come across people who are incapable of merging in the UK.

Perhaps as I said before, we need to focus on improving driver education and teach people how to merge onto a motorway or dual carriageway without inconveniencing other road users or posing a danger to them.

[aturnick54]

Gary C said:

You asked what you could have done.

Sitting parallel to another driver was one choice, slowing down was another.

Which do you think in the given circumstances you described would have lead to a safer outcome ?

Do you think a driving examiner would turn a blind eye to a learner driver merging onto a dual carriageway, and in the process forcing another vehicle which had priority to brake? They would very likely receive a serious fault and fail their test. It is far below what is expected of a competent and safe driver.

The suggestion here is to tolerate other people's bad driving, of which we often have no choice these days. But it really is down to the general education of drivers, and further education on how to merge or even how to use motorways and dual carriageways is much needed.

[aturnick54]

Ken_Code said:

No-one is making excuses for poor driving other than you.

So having to adapt to others poor driving is not making excuses for it?

We are encouraging people to just blindly merge from the slip road rather than do it properly by adjusting your speed to traffic in lane one, as you are (or should be) taught. That is exactly why situations like this arise. People think they don't have to give priority to traffic already on the motorway.

[aturnick54]

Gary C said:

No

the suggestion here is drive defensively for yours and others safety.

Which I do where possible. I make space for others where possible. They keyword is where possible. It is not always possible and people who are merging should recognise this rather than forcing their way onto the motorway.

I think if drivers are incapable of joining a motorway safely without causing other drivers to change speed or direction, then they should not be driving full stop. It's not even advanced driving, it's basic.

[aturnick54]

Ken_Code said:

Do you think being disingenuous is funny?

You know that people are criticising your poor driving. Pretending that you don’t understand that is silly

I'm still baffled as to how somebody driving in lane one with priority over cars joining the motorway is the poor driver after having being cut off by a merging driver.

The poor drivers are those who are incapable of merging onto a motorway without affecting the speed or direction of other drivers. The risk of drivers in lane one adjusting their speed to accommodate people merging is that the person trying to merge is also doing the same thing. Before you know it both drivers are slowing down to 40-50mph in a live lane with vehicles behind which slows down the flow of traffic.

It baffles me that merging onto motorways works in every other country without issue except the UK.

[aturnick54]

Pica-Pica said:

Strangely enough, my experience is that it works in the U.K. both when I am entering via a slip-road, or when others are joining via the slip road, and I am on the main carriageway. I wonder why that is? Have a think about it.

Because you are accustomed to poor driving standards.

[aturnick54]

Rumdoodle said:

Best that you don't drive abroad, then. The number of road deaths per 100k of population is twice as high in, for example, Turkey.

I drive across Europe, Turkey included. The motorways in Turkey are to a very good standard even if lane discipline is a bit questionable.

The fatalities occur mostly on state roads/dual carriageways which for some reason have roundabouts on them and people drive far too fast for the conditions.

I find it interesting that you've chosen to compare with Turkey however.

[aturnick54]

Rumdoodle said:

It is a wind up account. Check posting history - apparently UK airports are some of the most dangerous in the world.

I'm glad you've taken to trawling through my posts rather than engage in conversation about the topic at hand. Completely off topic.

[aturnick54]

Pica-Pica said:

Try again.

Most logical reason to me. You facilitate people that don't know how to merge and reinforce the idea that they can just merge into lane one without an ounce of consideration for people already on the carriageway. If people continue in lane one at the same speed, those joining would be forced to adjust their speed as they should do.

[aturnick54]

Super Sonic said:

Oh now I understand, you were maintaining your speed to teach the van driver a lesson ie force him to adjust his speed to merge. Your posts are just getting more idiotic.

No. I maintain speed so that the van driver can adjust his speed to merge safely, that is exactly what you are taught to do.

If I proceed to slow down or speed up, and the van driver does the exact same thing, we are both going to end up continuing alongside each other.

[aturnick54]

Rumdoodle said:

They probably have roundabouts for the same reason we do in the UK. But, don't quote me on that. And it's probably thicko British tourists driving too fast.

You go on holiday there, don't you?

I have family there. Speed limit is 110km/h on dual carriageways which I stick to.

[aturnick54]

Forester1965 said:

If you're in their blind spot and they haven't seen you, what do you normally do?

If I'm in a vehicles blind spot, I will ease off to get behind it. Or if it's a HGV I'll accelerate to get in front of it.

[aturnick54]

Rumdoodle said:

I expect you tell them how to drive more safely, so that their road safety record is more like the UK's.

Is there a Turkish motoring forum you can explain that on? Do post a link to your threads, and I'll happily endorse your message.

They stick to the speed limit yes. What is the relevance of this to slip road merging?

[aturnick54]

HardtopManual said:

Or instead of sitting in lane 1 thinking "I've got priority" you could simply adjust your speed or move into lane 2 and avoid the conflict altogether. Lane 2 being my preference as it is obvious even to the most inattentive or hesitant merger what you're doing.

It's not always possible to move into lane two, and personally I don't think this should be normalised as people now expect you to do this and this encourages people to merge inappropriately (ie, when there is a car in lane one who has nowhere to go)

[aturnick54]

carlo996 said:

Yes, you’ve made it clear you’re not very good at this driving thing.

Plenty of people in this thread have made it clear that they aren't great drivers either by reinforcing bad driving behaviour which goes against what you are taught.