New video - overtaking

[R_U_LOCAL]

Ok, my first efforts with a video camera were pretty wobbly to say the least.

I've been trying various combinations of Heath Robinson camera mounts over the last few weeks, but I haven't been too impressed with the results and I decided they weren't really worth posting.

This week, I've borrowed a friend's bullet-cam and fixed it to the dashboard over the instruments. I'm much more pleased with the results, so I went out yesterday and filmed quite a bit of footage. I've got enough to edit down into a cornering demo, some motorway driving and some overtakes, which is the first one to be posted. The position of th camera gives you the same view as I had at the time.

I also filmed a commentary drive, but the sound quality of the camera was so poor that you couldn't hear my voice, so I'll have to come up with some other way of recording a commentary.

The sound quality on this clip is also very poor, but I've left it as it came off the camera rather than editing some cheesy music over the top. You'll enjoy it best then, with the sound turned down.

Don't forget, as with the last one, it's best to read my article on overtaking first, to understand the principles...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

In the absence of a commentary, here's my accompanying notes for the video...

Overtake 1 - Vauxhall Astra.

A very basic overtake on a straight piece of road, coming from a 40mph limit into a national. The sideways move is made prior to the increase in speed limit, to help me get a better view, and to gauge the possible reaction of the Astra driver. The acceleration, however, only starts as the speed limit changes.

Overtake 2 - white van.

A good example of an overtake off a right-hander. The move to the nearside increases the view down the van's offside (watch for the horse and cart!), combined with a slightly closer following position. As soon as there is a break in the centre lines, the overtake is on and executed quickly and safely.

Overtake 3 - cement truck.

Another one coming out of a 40mph limit into a national. The following position is extended to allow a better view past the truck, and the overtake is performed efficiently without even requiring a change down from 4th.

Overtake 4 - Blue Rover 400.

There is a nice long view coming off the right hander that allowed me to spot the last oncoming vehicle - a white van. This view was confirmed by moving offside after the van passed, and the overtake was there for the taking.

Overtake 5 - Astra van.

Watch my sideways movements to obtain a view - nearside on the right-hander, and then offside on the straight prior to the overtake. I left the car in third to allow me to get into a following position on the next vehicle without braking.

Overtake 6 - a short series.

This shows how a progressive driver can take advantage of a short dual-carriageway and roundabouts. The plan with the trucks is not to be alongside them on the roundabout, but rather to pass them before or after - in this case, after. Watch how a move back to the nearside after the second roundabout gives us a better view in between the truck and the little Peugeot, and allows us to see when the Peugeot has completed it's overtake, so that e can then do ours.

Overtake 7 - Rover 75.

Note how the double-white lines severely restrict our ability to improve our view by sideways movements. As soon as the lines break, however, the overtake is on.

Overtake 8 - blue van.

This was an instinctive overtake - it was simply on. I was in the right position and the Right gear, and, well, it seemed rude not to really.

Overtake 9 - horse box.

Again, our movement is limited by the white lines, but the view up the nearside was good coming off the bend, so it was on.

Overtake 10 - Chrysler/Dodge thingy.

Come on - you should be getting the hang of this by now - I don't need to explain this one, do I?

Overtake 11 - Ford Galaxy.

A nice one off a left hand bend from an extended following position.

Overtakes 12 and 13 - Renault and Ford mondeo.

The first is a nice rolling overtake which was obviously on and required no following. The second was very straightforward.

Overtakes 14 and 15 - Volvo and caravanner.

This was my favourite. The Volvo was obviously looking for the overtake, but was losing the view by being too close. I'd spotted the opportunity early, but waited until the cars were on the left-hander to avoid being squeezed.

Overtakes 16 and 17 - Alfa 156 and Astra.

More straightforward stuff.

Here's the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvrhb1mDkYs

Enjoy!

[R_U_LOCAL]

Santa Claws said:

Reg, as ever, absolutely amazing.

Now do one with a traditional auto box!

No problem - have you got one you can lend me?

vonhosen said:

mrmr96 said:

Hi, first - thanks for taking the time to put the video together!

Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:

if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so

If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?

I wouldn't stop you using them for an overtake in those circumstances. The only thing I'd comment about that one is that I wouldn't have returned nearside after the lorry. I'd have stayed out for the white Peugeot & only returned nearside if it definitely wasn't on.

You shouldn’t expect to be pulled over for crossing into the hatched area. The overtake was safe and there is no offence if the hatchings are bordered by a broken white line.

The nearside move was a mistake – looking at it again, I think I’d expected the Peugeot to achieve a higher speed and assumed I’d need to overtake from the following position. I very quickly realised this wasn’t the case, but I’d already started moving nearside at that point.

mrmr96 said:

Issue 2 - Speed during overtakes
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but regarding use of speed during overtaking manouvers on NSL single carriageways: It is clear to a reasonable person that in many circumstances an overtake can be made safer if the overtaking vehicle is not on the wrong side of the road for long. Therefore aim to minimise time taken by increasing the speed differential so you can pull in sooner. The car being overtaken is under no obligation to slow down, but the car doing the overtaking could speed up. Your speedo is not shown, but at 4m 22s your speed seems to peak as you pass the small Peugot and you then slow down. Can I sak what your peak speed was here? (Also, noticed that on a few of the passes your speed peaked as you were alongside, which is good, but I still suspect that speed may have been nudging the limit a bit.)

The point is, overtaking and passing at above 60mph means you can pull in sooner and everyone is safer. I understand that, and Iyou understand that. However my fear would be coming across a laser speed check while undertaking this manouver. Therefore I have a moral conflict between i) sticking to 60 or ii) making the pass as safe as possible by exceeding 60 breifly. What advice can you offer me? (Other than to slow down afterwards, which I think goes without saying.) Also, would there be any chance that you could do a video with the speedo in view?

Firstly, please read my article on speed here…

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

It explains my personal feelings and opinions on the subject of speed limits and breaking them.

With that in mind, I won’t be commenting on what speeds I achieved on the video – mainly because I wasn’t looking at the speedometer during the overtakes, but also because I believe that the speed at which you drive on the roads is your choice, and your choice alone. I won’t be held responsible if you fall foul of the law, and it would be irresponsible of me to suggest that you should break speed limits.

I also won’t be posting any videos which show my speedometer.

mrmr96 said:

Finally - looks like you have some very nice roads round near you! Whereabouts was this filmed?

Overtake 1 – A675 Bolton Road, between Riley Green Switch Road and Junction 3 of the M65.

Overtakes 2 to 7 – A59 between Samlesbury and Gisburn.

Overtakes 8 and 9 – A682 between Gisburn and Long Preston.

Overtakes 10 to 13 – B6479 between Settle and Ribble Head.

Overtakes 14 to 17 – B6255 between Ribble Head and Hawes.

Gods country!

mrmr96 said:

vonhosen said:

Platinum said:

Great video

Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?

Why ?

I wondered too, I presume it's becasue it was overtaking on a corner which while not illegal is not as safe as doing it on a straight.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you can't overtake on corners. True, there aren't many left-handers that allow for safe overtaking, but this one certainly did, and there were no double-white line systems or other signs prohibiting overtaking. As that particular clip starts, look well ahead, and you'll get a full view of the road ahead. I could have gone out earlier, but watch how the two vehicles take some off the offside when negotiating the right-hander. I was correct to wait until they were entering the left hander, but at this point, we've lost quite a bit of the extended view ahead. Because we've already seen it, however, and assessed it as safe, then the overtake was certainly on. Granted, it wasn't one that many people would take on, and I probably wouldn't mark a student down for missing it, but this is an advanced driving demonstration, and that was an advanced-level overtake.

[R_U_LOCAL]

BlackSheep said:

Useful video, and much appreciated Reg!

I notice the video was made in a purple car - I wonder how many of these overtakes would have been out of the question for people driving blue cars (which have less than half the horsepower and torque)? I'm forever getting stuck on winding country roads behind that most irritating of road-users, the "50 in an NSL that could theoretically support 80" driver, but have similar performance car-wise and thus back off of every potential overtake because of the time it takes to get around them, especially if they pull the currently fashionable stunt of deliberately accelerating to tighten things up. Any advice?

Sorry for leaving it out of my first post on overtaking, but you're quite right - the first step in overtaking safely and efficiently is to ensure that you are not driving a blue car. Blueness is the antithesis of all things relating to performance, and will severely hamper your overtaking ability. Can I suggest allowing your car to become very dirty, rendering is somewhat browner? Or maybe wearing some of these to reduce the blueness?...



In reality, the principles for overtaking in a slower car are exactly the same, so long as you take into account your vehicle's performance during the planning phase. Without teaching you to suck eggs, your lack of performance means more time potentially exposed to danger, and so your planning will require a longer gap in on-coming traffic, or a longer view of an empty road ahead.

The big advantage of the techniques I've demonstrated is that, if you think progressively, position yourself correctly, and anticipate potential overtakes before they arrive by chosing a more flexible gear, then the overtakes will simply present themselves to you, and you'll find yourself moving into the overtakes well before the vehicles in front or behind realise that they're on.

[R_U_LOCAL]

WilliBetz said:

A great demonstration of varying the following position to preserve a view. Bravo.

With hindsight, are you happy about your penultimate pass on the Alfa?

WilliBetz

Yes.

The camera was mounted lower than my sight-line, so I had a better view into the dip, and I could see it was clear.

[R_U_LOCAL]

naetype said:

Pedants start here:

At the first right hand turn both you and the silver car cut the corner going over solid white lines?

This is not a criticism per se but - Why?

Just lucky I guess.

[R_U_LOCAL]

ironictwist said:

Many thanks for uploading the vid and providing some informative posts there RU. Watching that video and comparing it to how I personally perform overtaking in similar scenario's, it's nice to know that im doing it in a respectable manner.

I also was surprised with Overtake 6, I always assumed like most that area was always a no go zone, whatever the scenario. One other thing which struck me was you held back waiting for the Pug to safely overtake before you did. Countless times I've found myself with someone behind me right on my bumper in situations like that, and I'm sure I've done the same throughout the short time I've been driving. My question is..Is it illegal in any form to do that, or just generally frowned upon? I mean i get the impression, it's not how it should be done (going by the book), but in such scenario's it's so easy to get caught up in the moment and pile your way through behind the car in front as any later would've meant leaving yourself in a bit of a pickle.

I'd never advise you to follow anyone into an overtake. Firstly, just because the driver in front has assessed the overtake as safe doesn't mean that it is - you've usually no idea of their level of experience or skill, and relying on an unknown person's ability to assess an overtake is risky in the extreme.

Secondly, even though it may be on for the car in front, doesn't mean that there will be enough room for you to go too. The driver in front will only have assessed the overtake for their car, not for two.

The best advice is to let the vehicle in front complete their overtake first, and then plan your own overtake seperately.

henrycrun said:

I'm assuming that you are indicating for each overtake (but it can't be heard cos of the sound interference) ?

No, I didn't indicate for any of the overtakes.

[R_U_LOCAL]

naetype said:

Couple of things I've been thinking about:

The overtake in the hatched area? I would have avoided that as the amount of crud that accumulates in that area is significant; I'm sure I've even seen a video of trafpol on a response call end up crashing as his tyre deflated as a result of some nail(?) he picked up when he went into a hatched area at the end of a d/c. Is that not a significant concern for you?

It's certainly something I consider, and I specifically remember checking out the road surface in the hatched area for this particular overtake. The reduction in picture quality doesn't help, but on the original, you can see a definite line where the debris has been swept towards the centre of the hatchings, just after the end of the central reservation. I was able to complete the overtake whilst staying well away from any road debris.

Trust me - I've just put two new tyres on the front of my car, so I'm extremely cautious about road surface and debris!

naetype said:

I may have picked up some of your advice wrong. I move out to the offside for a clear view without accelerating then make a definite decision. It's only when I'm there do I press the loud pedal properly. You seem to have made the decision to overtake when following then start accelerating and then confirm it when you're in the offside position. Am I prolonging needlessly my offside position?

Or is my hearing in need of a test?

Firstly, remember that I'm not an advocate of the "contact" or "overtaking" position. There are many people on here who are, including some who hold the same qualifications as me, so it's not worth opening another debate on the subject, other than to say that my preferred method is to overtake straight from the following position.

Now, let's look at this "offside before acceleration" aspect. There are two main reasons behind the principle of moving offside before accelerating. Firstly, the offside move is to confirm the view before committing to the overtake. Secondly, it's to avoid the driver getting closer than the following position, and therefore losing the ability to stop safely should the vehicle in front brake suddenly without warning.

On the first point,think about how far you need to move offside to obtain that view. You don't need to go fully onto the offside of the road - you just need to move out by the width of the vehicle in front.

On the second point, to avoid accelerating within your following position, you don't need to go fully onto the offside of the road - you just need to move out by the width of the vehicle in front.

See the similarity?

On some of the overtakes in that video, I've had plenty of time, and I've been able to move completely offside before accelerating. On others, they've been a little bit tighter for various reasons, and I've only moved a vehicles width offside before accelerating. Having looked back through the video, I can't see any where I've accelerated within my following position, but I can see a couple where it's not as obvious as others.

One other thing - as you get better at the systematic approach of advanced driving, the separation of different elements becomes more natural, and you develop the ability to "blend" the phases slightly when going from one to another. During overtaking, this blending of phases means that, whilst moving offside, the driver might not wait until they're fully offside before accelerating, but instead, will delay the acceleration until they've moved the vehicle's width to the offside, then start accelerating, but still keep moving offside whilst accelerating. I think this is possibly why it may look as though I'm accelerating early on a couple of the overtakes.

[R_U_LOCAL]

stuthemong said:

I must admit, I was very surprised to see you use the hatchings to 'do' the truck too.

Do you think that a normal MOP would be able to argue his case to a policeman for pulling them over for a similar manouvre? (I can think of man roads I use where similar cheeky dips into the broken line hatchings could enable an extra overtake).

There would be no case to argue - it's a perfectly legitimate place to overtake. I wasn't driving a Police car when I made the video - I was a member of the public like everyone else.

stuthemong said:

The Caravan overtake was immense, though even though you get a very clear view around the bend preceeding the move, do you not have to make allowances for an bansaii motorcyclist or suchlike coming around there? I daresay a 1000cc bike driven by a nutter could have been facing you as you were alongside the caravan, as you were 'darkside' for a good few seconds.

It's a fair point - I always use the theoretical fast on-coming motorcyclist as an example to students as to what they should be imagining when planning an overtake. As is often pressed home in advanced driving, what you can't see is often more important than what you can see.

In this case, however, the imaginary motorcyclist was part of my plan, and I was happy that I could return to the nearside in plenty of time. Trust me - these overtakes can look dramatic, but I don't take any risks when driving.

[R_U_LOCAL]

stuthemong said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

There would be no case to argue - it's a perfectly legitimate place to overtake. I wasn't driving a Police car when I made the video - I was a member of the public like everyone else.

I'm really not trying to be faceious, just trying to learn, so please don't think I'm trying to annoy here RULocal.

I'm not annoyed - just answering the question.

stuthemong said:

HighwayCode said:

if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is *necessary* and you can see that it is safe to do so.

Now my interpretation of this, would be that overtaking a car is never really necessary, ergo passing into hatched area to do this could not be justified in this respect. I had read the rule and interpreted it to mean something like that if there was a ambulance or police car with sirens flying along, if you thought it necessary, you were legally allowed to pull into the hatched area to let them pass.

I've never seen a definition of "necessary" as applied to that highway code rule. In the absence of such a definition, we're left to use our own interpretation of "necessary". In this case, I felt it was necessary for me to overtake the lorry, and I could see that it was safe to do so.

stuthemong said:

To the same token, I'd be very wary to ever enter a solid lined, chevroned area in aid progression of emergency services, unless I was directed by a police officer in uniform. By extrapolation, if you think that overtaking is necessary, is it then legal to use common sense to enter 'illegal' areas of the roadway in an approaching emergency services situation, or do you open yourself for conviction again (like red light camera incidents)?

Areas of chevrons bordered by a solid white line have a specific exemption. That is that you can only cross into them in an emergency. It can safely be assumed by a member of the public that an emergency vehicle displaying blue lights and sirens is on route to an emergency of some description, so if it's safe for you to do so, crossing solid-bordered hatch markings to allow them to pass is perfectly legal.

The same is true of double-white line systems, but normally it would be the emergency vehicle which crosses them if you pull to the nearside.

I can't think of any other areas of the road which could be classed as "illegal".

stuthemong said:

The reason I'm hammering this point home is that on my commute there is a monster overtaking opportunity ruined by a central broken line hashed area (infilled in red, does this make any difference btw?) that, if I were able to use as part of the overtake, would make a lot more overtakes 'on'.

Ths position in question is here, eastbound

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...

As you can see, the hatching scuppers an overtake initiated just about level with the left filter, which, if the road is clear it totally safe to do. I usually hold off until I have passed the end of the hatches, but sometimes there will be an oncoming by that point, and even though timing wise it is probably still possible to get past, overtakes with <300m visible oncomings tend to scare other road users, so I often opt to not bother (often the overtakee can do very werid things, and oncomings try to blind you).

The red paint is there just to make the hatch markings stand out a little more, and has no relevance as to whether you can cross them or not. If you're travelling from left to right, the only problem I could envisage with overtaking there is the off-slip to the right. Now, under normal circumstances, if everyone is driving correctly, there shouldn't be a problem, as it's only there for on-coming vehicles to turn left into. However, there's always a slight risk that the vehicle you're planning to pass could have missed the first junction and will decide to turn right into that off-slip. If I were considering overtaking, the hatch markings wouldn't stop me from doing so, but I'd probably delay the pass until I was sure the vehicle in front wasn't going to turn right.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Vaux said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

Overtakes 14 and 15 - Volvo and caravanner.

This was my favourite. The Volvo was obviously looking for the overtake, but was losing the view by being too close. I'd spotted the opportunity early, but waited until the cars were on the left-hander to avoid being squeezed.

Did you consider/apply any kind of warning for the Volvo driver (lights/horn)?
You note he was looking to overtake and might have moved out as the road straightened?

PS - Actually recognized part as I drive A59 a bit!

No, I didn't give a signal. I considered it unnecessary, as I'd been following the two vehicles for a good mile-and-a-half prior to the overtake. Despite looking keen to get past, the Volvo driver had missed a couple of glaringly obvious opportunities to pass the BBC (blasted bloody caravanner), and so I was more than happy that he wouldn't consider an overtake in the area that I took them.

[R_U_LOCAL]

ipsg.glf said:

An interesting Video - Thanks, Reg.

Just a couple of queries:

01:44 Hidden entrance on offside

The key word that you've used is "hidden". If it had been a proper junction, It's highly likely that I'd have seen it much earlier and possibly delayed the overtake. As it was, I genuinely didn't see it until I was halfway past the truck, at which point it was safer to continue past. As it was, I was past the truck and returning to the nearside before I reached the entrance, but in hindsight, dropping to a lower gear would have seen me past the truck more quickly and completely back to the nearside prior to the entrance.

ipsg.glf said:

07:08 Just looks a little "tight" from the angle of the camera

Rather than moving out and accelerating from a following position, this was a "rolling" or "momentum" overtake, where I had considerable plus-speed on the Renault well before the overtake. This plus speed allowed me to be exposed for much less time - from moving offside to having passed the car was less than three seconds. With that in mind, I was 100% happy with the overtake.

Observer2 said:

All very nice Reg (what on earth was that Galaxy doing braking for that 'bend' (kink) FFS!!!).

It's called "comfort braking" - you'll see it all the time on roads like that. Drivers somehow associate corners with a need to reduce speed, irrespective of what speed they're already doing. They gently brush the brake pedal, but lose virtually no speed whatsoever - sometimes none at all. They just seem to feel more comfortable entering a corner with some brakes applied. Some are even worse and apply braking all the way round a corner. It's utterly pointless, of course, and most people won't even realise they're doing it.

Observer2 said:

The overtake of the truck as you came off off the roundabout was, imo, a touch risky. At the time you committed, you could not (I would submit) be sure that the truck would not drift to the offside, forcing you into the armco. Why would it do that? Several possibilities including: natural drift wide on the lefthanded bend of the exit, bicycle on the exit, pedestrian about to cross. It did not appear (although I'm willing to be corrected) that you could have been sure that was not going to happen.

In that situation, I hang back until I'm sure that the truck has settled on its course.

Hope you don't mind the comment.

Not at all - let me explain my thought processes and observations at the time.

Firstly, watch how the lorry driver negotiates the roundabout. They're extremely careful to stay towards the nearside, and in reality (although I never would do), I could have passed the truck on the roundabout itself. I got the impression that the driver was acutely aware of the possibility that I may try to take him on the roundabout having seen my faster approach, and he's more than likely had plenty of other car drivers try to pass him there previously.
Having seen how carefully the driver remained nearside, I was confident that they would remain nearside when leaving the roundabout, as the left-hander off the roundabout wasn't as tight as the roundabout itself.
As for the possibility of cyclists, pedestrians etc, you're quite correct - it's a dual carriageway, not a motorway, and they could always be present.
However, as I entered the roundabout, and my steering input went from left to right, I had a good view to my right, in front of the truck, and I was able to check for nearside hazards. This view was unfortunately too far off to the right to be caught on the forward-facing camera, but I can assure you that they were possibilities that I'd considered.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Observer2 said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

Firstly, watch how the lorry driver negotiates the roundabout. They're extremely careful to stay towards the nearside, and in reality (although I never would do), I could have passed the truck on the roundabout itself. I got the impression that the driver was acutely aware of the possibility that I may try to take him on the roundabout having seen my faster approach, and he's more than likely had plenty of other car drivers try to pass him there previously.
Having seen how carefully the driver remained nearside, I was confident that they would remain nearside when leaving the roundabout, as the left-hander off the roundabout wasn't as tight as the roundabout itself.
As for the possibility of cyclists, pedestrians etc, you're quite correct - it's a dual carriageway, not a motorway, and they could always be present.
However, as I entered the roundabout, and my steering input went from left to right, I had a good view to my right, in front of the truck, and I was able to check for nearside hazards. This view was unfortunately too far off to the right to be caught on the forward-facing camera, but I can assure you that they were possibilities that I'd considered.

Fair enough Reg. I thought you probably would have a good explanation but it seemed worth mentioning as a potential hazard.

WRT my emphasised text, I acknowledge that general principle. In this sort of case, the big risk of course is that a vehicle on your nearside is intending to take a later exit than you and therefore ends up on an intersecting path. However, if you can be certain of getting past the target on the roundabout and clear your exit before the target vehicle reaches it, does it seems reasonable to suggest that the principle can be relaxed? Being alongside another vehicle on the inside of a bend/curve seems generally preferable to being on the outside, no?

In the case of a large and/or articulated vehicle, no - definitely not. I've seen countless accidents caused by a car driver going up the inside of an HGV on a roundabout, only to find that the driver of the larger vehicle needs the full width of the road to negotiate the junction. I've never actually seen anyone injured in these bumps, but it's amazing how much damage rotating HGV wheels can make to the nearside of a car. I'm slightly less reluctant to overtake cars and other smaller vehicles on a roundabout, but I still want to be certain that they'll maintain their nearside position and that they're not going to turn right from the left-hand lane.

You can be more confident passing longer vehicles on larger roundabouts, particularly those which are lane-marked, but you should still be wary.

[R_U_LOCAL]

AREA said:

Reg, I'm really struggling with the Volvo/caravan overtake.

I've watched the lorry out of the roundabout over and over, and ok, I'll buy into your having a better view of anything on the left hand side than the camera did. Doesn't look like it, but since videos make me look two stone heavier that I think I am, we'll trust you and not the camera ;-)

But, on right hand side of the road, through a left hand bend for 8 seconds before you stood any chance of getting back to safety!!?? Ok, previous views (that the camera didn't really catch) may have allowed you to see through the road ahead. However, at 8mins28secs you go past a layby. Not at all clear from the footage that you could have seen that and any car emerging from it. Were you "playing the odds" rather than absolute certainty on that pass? Put my mind at rest, and my faith in you, and tell me that you could see all the way through the road and the layby, please!

Children, don't try this at home.

I haven't done any videoing prior to posting on this site, and I don't think I appreciated quite how much of a blinkered view it gives. Sure - you can get a good idea of what was happening, but the perspective is very false, and the compression required to reduce the file size for posting means that an awful lot of detail is lost.

However, I've done my best with this to put your mind at rest - I wouldn't want you thinking that I played the odds at all - risk is something I try to completely eliminate from driving.

Here's the first view I got of the extended view past the left-hander. I've highlighted the layby/field entrance with a red circle. The time stamp on this picture is 07.56, and from here, although it isn't obvious from the video, I could see that there was nothing in the layby...



It's not obvious from that picture, I know, but here's a screen dump from my higher (pre-compression) quality video, on which I've also played with the lighting and contrast...



You should be able to make out the layby on that picture, which is just after the first picture.

As we move forward, I've highlighted the position of the layby, beyond which, you can still see my furthest view of the road. This is at 8.03, so 7 seconds after the first picture. Remember that my overtaking plan is based on an imaginary vehicle travelling at high speed towards me...



And a third picture, still with the layby in view, and still with a good extended view of the road ahead - the time is now 8.07, so that's now 11 seconds after the first picture...



As we move on to the next picture, this is where the camera problems become apparant. this picture is taken at 8.12 - 18 seconds after the first picture, and I've still got a good extended view up the road. I'm just starting to lose my view of the layby, but I already know there's nothing there - it's about here that I have to make a final decision as to whether I would come into conflict with a high-speed on-coming vehicle. From the camera's view, we've no idea, but from my view, I was more than happy that the pass was on...



It's only at the next picture where I've momentarily lost my view, but I'm more than confident with my prior observations, that I can safely complete the overtake. This is at 8.16, 20 seconds from my first view...



To be honest, I was expecting more questions about this overtake, so I'm more than happy to clear this one up.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Vaux said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

To be honest, I was expecting more questions about this overtake, so I'm more than happy to clear this one up.

I was happy with the views, my concern was the Volvo popping out as I wrote earlier.

I suppose the question could be "Would Von (on a working day) have taken the overtake?"

As I mentioned previously, I'd been following the two vehicles for quite some time before the clip starts, and I'd already seen the Volvo miss several blatently obvious opportunities to overtake, so I was happy that the Volvo driver wouldn't move out when I started to overtake.

As for whether VH would have gone for it, well, he's got similar qualifications and experience to me, so I suspect the answer would be yes.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Yung Man said:

I bet you got airborn passing that Alfa.

How much do you want to bet?

[R_U_LOCAL]

Yung Man said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

Yung Man said:

I bet you got airborn passing that Alfa.

How much do you want to bet?

I took that hill at no more than 60mph, If I'd known about that bomb hole I would have eased off the gas, as it was the revs shot up so the back wheels must have been clear of the tarmac.
Respect for passing at that point, I wouldn't have done it.

I'd have to suggest that 60mph is a bit too quick for that crest. The Alfa was quite slow-moving and my overtake was carried out at much less than 60mph.

[R_U_LOCAL]

KB_S1 said:

WhoseGeneration said:

Erm, he overtakes, safely, he demonstrates and explains the process.
It is what he teaches in his profession.
Observe and learn.
Or, accept what seems to be the current ideology.
Overtaking bad.
Your choice.

Just noticed this and have to disagree.

No one should be expected to just sit back and accept something they are told if they have doubts, especially when it comes to something as potentially dangerous as overtaking.

As we have seen every time someone asks a question Reg deals with it very well and imparts more detail on the scenario.
If no one questions the demonstrations and advice we may end up with many false understandings.

I have no doubt that every overtake was safe, progressive and well executed. I may however need to question aspects of it to understand more fully the process, information and assessment that led to the overtake.

I also disagree. I can't cover every conceivable point when writing these posts, and I'm more than happy to fill in gaps or clarify things.

The last thing I want people to have after reading them is any doubts, so please keep the questions coming.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Yung Man said:

Good video Reg but overtaking people on country lanes is easier in an M3 than in a Renualt Clio 1.2 (for example), when I was young and foolish (as apposed to being old and foolish) and driving under powered cars/ vans I found flying up behind people trying to work out whether that truck coming the otherway would be out the way when I got there (ready to pop out)was er, interesting.
The IAM way seems to be hold station waiting for the gap then accelerate past which is like I said easier in an M3.
Can drivers in under powered cars hang back then boot it 4 seconds before it's clear to give themselve that edge, obviously if at the 4 second point you have to abort you just have to drop back and try again, I know it looks very ameturish and I don't do it (honest), but what would your advice be?.............apart from get a bigger car.

The techniques I've described and demonstrated are exactly the same, irrespective of the performance of your car. The only difference is that you have to include your car's performance (or lack of) in your overtaking plan. If I'm out in my M3, there will obviously be more opportunities for me to overtake than there would be if I go out in the MX-5. The actual techniques that I use, however, are exactly the same.

[R_U_LOCAL]

7db said:

In fact I now see you've dealt with most of those on previous posts - RTFT!

I have! Apart from these two…

7db said:

A touch of DWL abuse on the Rover 75 o/t?

I don’t think so, no. The overtake started immediately after the double white lines, but I’m certain that I didn’t cross them.

7db said:

Was there dead ground you committed to on the blue van o/t? Specifically behind the tree on the right could there have been an exit or bike, horse etc?

It’s another one that’s difficult to make out from the video due to the compression. Here’s a screenshot from the original, on which I’ve highlighted the view I had to the right of that tree/hedge combination…



As you can see, there is a good view into the field, showing no roads, tracks or entrances. As for vehicles on the road itself, again, it’s not obvious from the video, but I was satisfied that it was clear before I committed.

TripleS said:

In the case of overtake number 2 we see an oncomer, which is a horse and cart. Do we/should we slow down and pass such a horse quietly, as I always do when encountering a horse being ridden on a country road, or do we regard 'your' horse as being more accustomed to the speed and noise of main road traffic and thus not needing to be passed slowly and quietly?

Horses are a difficult one, aren't they?

In this case, I think that if someone is confident enough in their horse that they will take it out pulling a trap along a busy stretch of NSL A road, then it's reasonably safe to assume that the animal is unlikely to be easily spooked.

If I'd been approaching it from behind, I'd have passed it at quite a slow speed, but approaching from the front, on that road, it seemed unecessary to slow.

[R_U_LOCAL]

It's a bit like dog owners. There are responsible dog owners, who look after their animal(s), train tham, and keep them under control. There are other dog owners who let their dogs wander the street, can't be bothered to train them properly and never really have any control over them.

If you see someone with a dog, can you tell what kind of owner they are? I can't, until it's savaged my dog, piddled on my roses and raped my leg.

The vast majority of horse owners/riders are responsible with their animals, keep them under control and are careful as to what roads they take them on. They tend to know their horse's temprement, and it's reactions to traffic.

A small minority, however, couldn't really give a toss. Have a ride up to Appleby in mid-June to see what I mean.

The difficulty for the rest of us is it's impossible to tell what kind of person is in charge of the horse.