197 / 197 Cup / 197 F1

[spoonoff]

sgathore said:

spoonoff said:

John D. said:

Catherine197 said:

I wouldn't touch the cup the interior is just plain nasty.

Disagreed.

Indeed. When you actually see a Cup they look fantastic with the alloys, spoiler, and low, wide stance. Interior looks mean and purposeful too, the slim Recaro's look the buisiness. The standard car dosen't relly have much to mark it out apart from the diffuser.

The only problem is (like the 182 cup), for all the looks, it wouldn't actually be much faster than a full fat. If Renault made a proper stripped out homologation special like the 172 cup then that would be a seriously good car... Wouldn't make any money though.

The only real cosmetical difference between the two cars is the Cup sits 7mm lower and has black side strips. Other than that, they pretty much look the same.

The alloys, spoiler and Recaro's are all optional on the Cup.

Didn't know that- cheers.
The tight gits.
Would definately spec mine with them though.

[russ_a]

yuo get aircon, electric windows and alloys on the megane cup as standard.

[Skyman]

russ_a said:

yuo get aircon, electric windows and alloys on the megane cup as standard.

But its butt ugly.

[Skyman]

warren182 said:

And unpainted side strips and door handles look better than the colour coded look.

IMHO.

Edited by Skyman on Friday 20th June 21:46

[TGJR]

I find it amusing how some people call the 197 Cup a marketing exercise when it costs over £1k less than the normal 197 Renaultsport (£1.4k if you spec the cup pack). Yes it is only 25kg lighter but it is still lighter and offers the performance and handling. Steering reach..... maybe in an ideal world the adjustment is nice but I am over 6 ft tall and have no problems. If there is a marketing scam going on here it is getting people to pay an extra £1k for the squidgy dash and colour coded door trims!

[Slagathore]

TGJR said:

I find it amusing how some people call the 197 Cup a marketing exercise when it costs over £1k less than the normal 197 Renaultsport (£1.4k if you spec the cup pack). Yes it is only 25kg lighter but it is still lighter and offers the performance and handling. Steering reach..... maybe in an ideal world the adjustment is nice but I am over 6 ft tall and have no problems. If there is a marketing scam going on here it is getting people to pay an extra £1k for the squidgy dash and colour coded door trims!

You pay the extra grand for:

Air con
Cruise control
Keyless go (very handy)
Electric mirrors
Reach adjustable steering wheel
Better steering wheel - I think the cup one is thinner and different shape
Aluminium pedals (OK, these are just small things now, but they look so much better)
The option of xenons, as you can't have xenons on the cup.
Nicer looking/feeling dash
colour coded door strips

There's probably a few other minor things I've missed out.

So, yeah, of course its gunna be a grand more expensive, but you do get more.

The cup is cheaper because you get less, but it's just not enough to make a difference to how the car drives.

There is nothing hardcore about losing ~25kg.

[tonylal]

....and you forgot the extra airbags and that the Cup has nasty black door handles, black door mirror covers and running strips. ON top of all of this, if you apply the same per centage discount to each car (after haggling) the gap of £1000 narrows even more. Maybe marketing exercise is too harsh - but what I will say is that the cup is not cheap enough to be a real incentive when you consider what you are losing out on.

[TGJR]

At the end of the day it depends what you want from the car. I wanted a fun run-around, maybe to do the odd track day. Things like cruise control, keyless-go, colour coded door handles etc., etc. mean nothing to me on this type of car. Yes, if I wanted a luxury saloon then these extras are perhaps something I'd expect but the Clio 197 to me is about simple fun! Nothing more to say on the subject. Happy motoring to all!

[warren182]

TGJR said:

At the end of the day it depends what you want from the car. I wanted a fun run-around, maybe to do the odd track day. Things like cruise control, keyless-go, colour coded door handles etc., etc. mean nothing to me on this type of car. Yes, if I wanted a luxury saloon then these extras are perhaps something I'd expect but the Clio 197 to me is about simple fun! Nothing more to say on the subject. Happy motoring to all!

Fair enough, but obviously those things don't make it any less of a track car. I bought a 182cup when they were realesed, another marketing car, nothing wrong with that. But to say that the 25 kg makes any significant difference on a 1240kg car is ridiculous. There is only one true clio cup.

[Catherine197]

I don't believe the 25kg makes one ounce of difference to the performance of the 197. I seam to recall when I last read the specification of the 2 cars, they both have the same performance stats.

[warren182]

Catherine197 said:

I don't believe the 25kg makes one ounce of difference to the performance of the 197. I seam to recall when I last read the specification of the 2 cars, they both have the same performance stats.

Exactly, it's the difference between a chubby driver and a slim one! If you want a light track car, get a Clio Trophy.

[Buffalo Girls]

The price difference is actually £1400 as the 197 Cup has the Cup chassis as standard whereas it's a £400 option on the regular 197. Nice to have the choice imo

[TGJR]

warren182 said:

Catherine197 said:

I don't believe the 25kg makes one ounce of difference to the performance of the 197. I seam to recall when I last read the specification of the 2 cars, they both have the same performance stats.

Exactly, it's the difference between a chubby driver and a slim one! If you want a light track car, get a Clio Trophy.

Nostaglia, nostalgia! The Clio Trophy may have been a great car but the fact of the matter is that the 197 is quicker and better handling on road or track. As to which is more 'fun' well that is a matter of opinion.

[Mutt]

TGJR said:

warren182 said:

Catherine197 said:

I don't believe the 25kg makes one ounce of difference to the performance of the 197. I seam to recall when I last read the specification of the 2 cars, they both have the same performance stats.

Exactly, it's the difference between a chubby driver and a slim one! If you want a light track car, get a Clio Trophy.

Nostaglia, nostalgia! The Clio Trophy may have been a great car but the fact of the matter is that the 197 is quicker and better handling on road or track. As to which is more 'fun' well that is a matter of opinion.

You've just opened a can of worms.

[spoonoff]

TGJR said:

warren182 said:

Catherine197 said:

I don't believe the 25kg makes one ounce of difference to the performance of the 197. I seam to recall when I last read the specification of the 2 cars, they both have the same performance stats.

Exactly, it's the difference between a chubby driver and a slim one! If you want a light track car, get a Clio Trophy.

Nostaglia, nostalgia! The Clio Trophy may have been a great car but the fact of the matter is that the 197 is quicker and better handling on road or track. As to which is more 'fun' well that is a matter of opinion.

OK then, I'll bite.

A bit sweeping to say the 197 is quicker on road and track. The 0-60 times for the 182/trophy are better, the in gear times are better. Fair enough the 197 has more power, and is faster at higher speeds, and is also quicker on the track due to a wider, longer, and seriously sorted chassis. But in the real world the 182's gutsy engine and chuckability would make it hard for a 197 to keep up, as it is a bit of a tubber in comparison (much better damped though).

Can you guess what I drive..?

BTW: Don't get me wrong- if someone offered me a straight swap for a 197 I would definately take them up as it is a more attractive all round ownership prospect, just don't think it would be as fast down a favorite B-road, especially if you had to overtake people.

[TGJR]

I can only speak from my experience of having owned a 182 with cup pack (not a Trophy) and a 197 Cup. For my driving preferences I would pick the later any day of the week whether it was to drive on track or from A to B on a twisty back lane like the roads around where I live. Thats not to say I would'nt enjoy the 182 as much but it would'nt be as quick. I find the 197 more planted and progressive where as the 182 had a tendancy to skitter under hard acceleration out of corners on less than perfect surfaces. Still loved driving the 182 though.

[spoonoff]

OK, you've convinced me. Time to save some pennies.

[warren182]

TGJR said:

warren182 said:

Catherine197 said:

I don't believe the 25kg makes one ounce of difference to the performance of the 197. I seam to recall when I last read the specification of the 2 cars, they both have the same performance stats.

Exactly, it's the difference between a chubby driver and a slim one! If you want a light track car, get a Clio Trophy.

Nostaglia, nostalgia! The Clio Trophy may have been a great car but the fact of the matter is that the 197 is quicker and better handling on road or track. As to which is more 'fun' well that is a matter of opinion.

Really? Is that why the Trophy lapped bedford quicker than the 197cup, on the same day with the same driver (EVO)? Or why the Trophy came 2nd in the greatest front driver feature? (For reference, the 197 was left behind at the 1st stage). The 197 has more power, better brakes, closer gear ratios, wider rubber, and still lapped slower. Of course, your opinion 'could' be more accurate than some facts, especially when you consider that renaultsport engineers feel it's unfair on the 197 to compare it with the Trophy, due to the development and hardware that went into the Trophy.

[warren182]

TGJR said:

I can only speak from my experience of having owned a 182 with cup pack (not a Trophy) and a 197 Cup. For my driving preferences I would pick the later any day of the week whether it was to drive on track or from A to B on a twisty back lane like the roads around where I live. Thats not to say I would'nt enjoy the 182 as much but it would'nt be as quick. I find the 197 more planted and progressive where as the 182 had a tendancy to skitter under hard acceleration out of corners on less than perfect surfaces. Still loved driving the 182 though.

Having owned both, the 182 (cup packed) is not comparable to a Trophy.

[TGJR]

Yes a 182 Trophy had race spec dampers but the engine was the same as a standard 182 and some may even say it was a 'marketing ploy' to shift the last batch of old Clio's before the arrival of a new model (non of these went on sale in France which may say something?). At £15500 (same price as new Clio Cup) they needed to be good and they unquestionably were. However, things move on and manufacturers are rarely in the business of creating inferior evolutions of a model.