The Little Ying
Discussion
RescueYing said:
JimGTxx said:
The 'dip' you get on deceleration when you disengage the clutch when coming to a stop
Clutch comes out, revs almost die
Erm, said the wrong thing there.
The revs die when I press the clutch in when about to stop at junction.
Just posted quick vid of the throttle part moving on http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelittleying/
RescueYing said:
Erm, said the wrong thing there.
The revs die when I press the clutch in when about to stop at junction.
Just posted quick vid of the throttle part moving on http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelittleying/
My fault for using the wording I did.
The reason it's affected by the lights is that additional electrical load should open a VSV valve to add more idle air to help the engine with the additional load from the alternator.
The stalling during gearshifts/clutch disengagement (pressing it down to isolate the engine from the rest of the drivetrain) means either you have disconnected the dashpot or the piping for it is connected incorrectly, or the timing and idle are set incorrectly, or the valve which opens to compensate for the electrical load is duff. Does that make sense?
Did you look at the throttle stop. You should be able to pull it out a few mm. It should extend automatically when you open the throttle. (EDIT: just looked at your vid, the throttle stop looks to be working as it should. No issue there)
Check the vacuum diagram against what you've got connected...
Actually, to make things easier, here's a pic of all the stuff on it's own, correctly connected for the UK car setup, this should make it easier for you to identify and match against your car.
The item on the far right of the picture, with the "manifold iron connection on the end of it's hose, is the valve that lets extra air in when the throttlebody is shut (as it's engine side of the throttle plate) it opens and lets the engine pull air through from the airbox, which has the same effect as opening the throttle slightly. That may be at fault.
Check everything is hooked up correctly first.
Hope that helps!
j
Did around 250 miles today, mostly B roads.
All works well
Apart from the idle which can best be described as fairly random.
When coming to a stop from mostly any speed, needle drops to around 100 and dances back up to around 1000, back down, back up, back down, back up, couple times, bit less each time. Then steadies at anywhere between 600 and 950.
Dropping off back at garage Monday...
Wee question about the steering wheel - the horn isn't connected - is that permanent or just wasn't hooked up?
Cheers
All works well
Apart from the idle which can best be described as fairly random.
When coming to a stop from mostly any speed, needle drops to around 100 and dances back up to around 1000, back down, back up, back down, back up, couple times, bit less each time. Then steadies at anywhere between 600 and 950.
Dropping off back at garage Monday...
Wee question about the steering wheel - the horn isn't connected - is that permanent or just wasn't hooked up?
Cheers
Took a look at hosing.
For me it doesn't correspond to Jim's photo.
Cable from air filter box is fine, but cable coming out of plug in intercooler doesn't match unless I am missing something.
Have posted couple videos showing what I mean:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelittleying
ETA: YouTube HD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ApcIq-2sQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny0UhgwrA90
For me it doesn't correspond to Jim's photo.
Cable from air filter box is fine, but cable coming out of plug in intercooler doesn't match unless I am missing something.
Have posted couple videos showing what I mean:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelittleying
ETA: YouTube HD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ApcIq-2sQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny0UhgwrA90
Edited by RescueYing on Sunday 7th August 15:17
in answer to your question above, I'm not surprised it's not working properly with the way yours is connected, the air inlet in the double pronged orange filter is too small.
It needs do be connected to the larger metal prong that is screwed into the end of the plenum neck/throttlebody casting.
Pull everything that it wrong out and hook it up like in the picture.
The part which you are calling the intercooler (which has the screwdown cover that says 'turbo intercooler' on top of it) is the inlet plenum.
The actual intercooler is the thing which looks like a small radiator, it's down by the gearbox.
Follow the thick pipe and rubber hose from the turbo, it heads down behind the radiator to the intercooler, through that, then back up and connects to the throttlebody.
When you see what I have done with mine, it makes it much simpler!
I use a lot less vacuum hose and it's an awful lot neater!
I bought a vacuum manifold like this:-
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index.php?main_page=...
So I can run everything that needs to 'read' plenum pressure (MAP sensor, fuel pressure regulator - which are the two that should be connected to the orange twin pronged filter) from the same neat source on the firewall, plus the non-standard extras like electronic boost controller, boost guage, turbo timer, dump-valve etc etc from the vacuum manifold.
The only things that I will connect to the plenum are a largs bore connection to feed the vacuum manifold and the idle up bypass.
It needs do be connected to the larger metal prong that is screwed into the end of the plenum neck/throttlebody casting.
Pull everything that it wrong out and hook it up like in the picture.
The part which you are calling the intercooler (which has the screwdown cover that says 'turbo intercooler' on top of it) is the inlet plenum.
The actual intercooler is the thing which looks like a small radiator, it's down by the gearbox.
Follow the thick pipe and rubber hose from the turbo, it heads down behind the radiator to the intercooler, through that, then back up and connects to the throttlebody.
When you see what I have done with mine, it makes it much simpler!
I use a lot less vacuum hose and it's an awful lot neater!
I bought a vacuum manifold like this:-
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index.php?main_page=...
So I can run everything that needs to 'read' plenum pressure (MAP sensor, fuel pressure regulator - which are the two that should be connected to the orange twin pronged filter) from the same neat source on the firewall, plus the non-standard extras like electronic boost controller, boost guage, turbo timer, dump-valve etc etc from the vacuum manifold.
The only things that I will connect to the plenum are a largs bore connection to feed the vacuum manifold and the idle up bypass.
Edited by JimGTxx on Friday 12th August 11:29
for the two in the pic noted "Where?"....
Seriously? you should look harder!!!!!
There's not much in the engine bay and BOTH of those MUST be connected to a pressure source for your car to work properly! They are the two most important things to connect to make it work.
The left hand one is the fuel pressure regulator, you need this to be connected (it is on the end of the fuel rail - right hand side of the engine, sort of 'below' the throttlebody).
The other one is bolted to the firewall in a cluster of things and is the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor, which the ECU needs to know how much fuel to squirt in.
One is the MAP sensor, which is very necessary!!!!
Another it is not necessary at all, it is just a pressure switch to turn on the green boost light in the middle of the dash console.
The last one is the idle up solenoid.
The pressure switch can be used to comedy effect - I have been known to re-connect things for a joke and make it trigger the horn or open the windows.
Seriously? you should look harder!!!!!
There's not much in the engine bay and BOTH of those MUST be connected to a pressure source for your car to work properly! They are the two most important things to connect to make it work.
The left hand one is the fuel pressure regulator, you need this to be connected (it is on the end of the fuel rail - right hand side of the engine, sort of 'below' the throttlebody).
The other one is bolted to the firewall in a cluster of things and is the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor, which the ECU needs to know how much fuel to squirt in.
One is the MAP sensor, which is very necessary!!!!
Another it is not necessary at all, it is just a pressure switch to turn on the green boost light in the middle of the dash console.
The last one is the idle up solenoid.
The pressure switch can be used to comedy effect - I have been known to re-connect things for a joke and make it trigger the horn or open the windows.
Edited by JimGTxx on Friday 12th August 10:47
Edited by JimGTxx on Friday 12th August 11:27
For what it is worth, here is how much simpler it could be.
The red lines are things that should be connected, all lines and tee-pieces etc I have scribbled over in green can be ditched. Does that surprise you?
There is no need for most of these things to be plumbed back into a line going to the back of the airbox (the only thing you could argue that should be filtered, is the inlet for the idle up solenoid, but I doubt there is going to be much danger of drawing in damaging stuff through there!).
The red lines are things that should be connected, all lines and tee-pieces etc I have scribbled over in green can be ditched. Does that surprise you?
There is no need for most of these things to be plumbed back into a line going to the back of the airbox (the only thing you could argue that should be filtered, is the inlet for the idle up solenoid, but I doubt there is going to be much danger of drawing in damaging stuff through there!).
Hey Jim
Thanks for taking the time to explain. Indeed strange that the green lines are not needed but I see what you mean about air filtration.
The single black hose left near the top - I guess that one is not needed either?
Am learning a lot from you guys, and finding this all fascinating - but I need it kept real simple at this stage because I have no clue about engine bits..
Will go ahead and plumb the red ones
Thanks for taking the time to explain. Indeed strange that the green lines are not needed but I see what you mean about air filtration.
The single black hose left near the top - I guess that one is not needed either?
Am learning a lot from you guys, and finding this all fascinating - but I need it kept real simple at this stage because I have no clue about engine bits..
Will go ahead and plumb the red ones
yes you are right, the black one at the top is not needed and is replaced by the red one I drew in.
to explain exactly and simply why, piece by piece:-
the MAP sensor should be connected directly to the orange filter
the fuel pressure regulator should be connected directly to the orange filter
the orange filter just stops any crap from there getting to the sensors - the crap I'm talking about is atomised oil from the two cam cover breathers (oil cap and the one at the front of the cam cover that connects to the pre-turbo air inlet)
the throttle stop vacuum transmitting valve (VTV) does not need to connect to anything, it is only done out of 'neatness'
the vacuum switch only turns a dash light on and is totally unnecessary as far as the engine and ECU are concerned, but routes the air that goes through it back to the airbox, again for neatness. this lot can be totally removed, or left to vent directly out if needed.
the idle up valve is only there to open and feed a little extra air to the engine if and when necessary, when the throttlebody plate is closed. The inlet is plumbed back to the airbox, so it draws in filtered air. you could put your own little filter on it, or leave it unfiltered.
For what it is worth, in my setup I will go even further, as the stand MAP sensor will not be used (my new ECU has one built in), so is no longer in the loop and the idle up valve will be binned too, as I will be using a different throttle body with a proper stepper motor.
The more simple the setup, the less joins and junctions = the less likely hood of leaks etc.
Happy to help, if you're ever over this way, you can buy me a beer for my efforts!
to explain exactly and simply why, piece by piece:-
the MAP sensor should be connected directly to the orange filter
the fuel pressure regulator should be connected directly to the orange filter
the orange filter just stops any crap from there getting to the sensors - the crap I'm talking about is atomised oil from the two cam cover breathers (oil cap and the one at the front of the cam cover that connects to the pre-turbo air inlet)
the throttle stop vacuum transmitting valve (VTV) does not need to connect to anything, it is only done out of 'neatness'
the vacuum switch only turns a dash light on and is totally unnecessary as far as the engine and ECU are concerned, but routes the air that goes through it back to the airbox, again for neatness. this lot can be totally removed, or left to vent directly out if needed.
the idle up valve is only there to open and feed a little extra air to the engine if and when necessary, when the throttlebody plate is closed. The inlet is plumbed back to the airbox, so it draws in filtered air. you could put your own little filter on it, or leave it unfiltered.
For what it is worth, in my setup I will go even further, as the stand MAP sensor will not be used (my new ECU has one built in), so is no longer in the loop and the idle up valve will be binned too, as I will be using a different throttle body with a proper stepper motor.
The more simple the setup, the less joins and junctions = the less likely hood of leaks etc.
Happy to help, if you're ever over this way, you can buy me a beer for my efforts!
Looks like a result!
Connected the MAP sensor and fuel pressure regulator to the filter on the inlet plenum.
Connected the idle up solenoid to the now empty socket.
Idle is stable and the needle no longer dives to 100rpm when stopping and the hunting has disappeared. The idle doesn't need adjusting and at 950.
Those 'about to stall' moments have gone...
Only item left is the idle loses around 200rpm when the cooling fan comes on, when fan comes off it goes back up.
I can live with this until do more miles and will then get ignition timing done properly.
Cheers Jim - this saved me a good few miles round trip to garage at the very least for something which I now see is pretty straightforward. Plus I have a car that is driving better
By the way I will be in south of England in early Oct with the car and plan to drop by for a flying visit...
Connected the MAP sensor and fuel pressure regulator to the filter on the inlet plenum.
Connected the idle up solenoid to the now empty socket.
Idle is stable and the needle no longer dives to 100rpm when stopping and the hunting has disappeared. The idle doesn't need adjusting and at 950.
Those 'about to stall' moments have gone...
Only item left is the idle loses around 200rpm when the cooling fan comes on, when fan comes off it goes back up.
I can live with this until do more miles and will then get ignition timing done properly.
Cheers Jim - this saved me a good few miles round trip to garage at the very least for something which I now see is pretty straightforward. Plus I have a car that is driving better
By the way I will be in south of England in early Oct with the car and plan to drop by for a flying visit...
Edited by RescueYing on Friday 12th August 18:52
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