The professional cycling thread

[Don1]

I am the only one a little skeptical over just how fresh & powerful Contador is? Especially when he still wasn't fully cleared at the start by the doctors, pending a scan that didn't occur.

I know he's good, but really? Sticking another chunk of time on Froome when Froome had destroyed the rest of the field. I mean I know he sat behind him the entire way, but even so....

[Kermit power]

Gizmoish said:

Tour of Britain TV coverage.

Low budget?

Although said in jest, I've been wondering the exact opposite. Why is the coverage of the Vuelta so utterly ste?

I've only got terrestrial TV on which to watch cycling, so am more or less limited to the Tour, Vuelta, TOB, UK Tour Series and World Championships. Every year, I'm glued to the Tour, Tour Series and TOB (and the Worlds when I remember they're on BBC!), and have my wife now hooked on them as well (the only sport she watches), yet every year I sit watching the Vuelta wondering what I ever saw in cycling.

It's NOT the quality of the racing that does this either. It's the quality of the coverage! I don't think it's particularly the commentary either. The actual Spanish TV coverage (which I assume is the same feed that Eurosport gets?) makes me feel like I'm watching a replay of a race from the Eighties with its wobbly camera shots, views of tops of buildings from helicopters as the sprint goes past hidden by said buildings and generally missing half the incidents in the race!

Added to that is the fact that the Spanish organisers seemingly don't create the massive tourism bible for commentators that the Tour does, so when there's nothing going on in the racing, they're left with nothing to talk about bar the fact that there's nothing going on in the racing! At least on the Tour you get told all about the mad old Count who built the chateau they're cycling past at the time.

Is it any better on Eurosport (which I'll have from Thursday)? Or do I just have to accept that TV coverage of the Vuelta is a bit st compared to all other cycling on TV? Also, I'll get to watch the Giro next year, which I've not had before. Is the coverage on that any good?

[Vocal Minority]

I know I am in a minority of 1, but I like the Phil and wots-his-bananas team, yes some of the details can be sketchy, but I quite like the feel of it.

Whilst on Eurosport, whilst I acknowledge Sean Kelley to be most knowledgeable - my god the mumbling....

[Sway]

Don1 said:

I am the only one a little skeptical over just how fresh & powerful Contador is? Especially when he still wasn't fully cleared at the start by the doctors, pending a scan that didn't occur.

I know he's good, but really? Sticking another chunk of time on Froome when Froome had destroyed the rest of the field. I mean I know he sat behind him the entire way, but even so....

Really?

You're questioning a Grand Tour winner, whose only possible issue was not having good control of diet sources, loved in his home country, on his home tour?

With his country's superb track record at finding and punishing dopers?

Of course he can blow Froome away. He has panache.

Plus he looks really nice on a bike, all fluid and st. Froome looks like a dying dog. So slow.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Sway said:

Don1 said:

I am the only one a little skeptical over just how fresh & powerful Contador is? Especially when he still wasn't fully cleared at the start by the doctors, pending a scan that didn't occur.

I know he's good, but really? Sticking another chunk of time on Froome when Froome had destroyed the rest of the field. I mean I know he sat behind him the entire way, but even so....

Really?

You're questioning a Grand Tour winner, whose only possible issue was not having good control of diet sources, loved in his home country, on his home tour?

With his country's superb track record at finding and punishing dopers?

Of course he can blow Froome away. He has panache.

Plus he looks really nice on a bike, all fluid and st. Froome looks like a dying dog. So slow.

He does look nice on a bike. That much I'll give you.

[Sway]

I have no idea how he spends so much time out of the saddle. As soon as the road goes up, he never sits down.

Must use more energy?

[Kermit power]

Vocal Minority said:

I know I am in a minority of 1, but I like the Phil and wots-his-bananas team, yes some of the details can be sketchy, but I quite like the feel of it.

Whilst on Eurosport, whilst I acknowledge Sean Kelley to be most knowledgeable - my god the mumbling....

I like the ITV coverage on all the other races I watch. It's just the Vuelta which is crap, which leads me to think it's all about the feed they receive, not about what they do with it.

[okgo]

The vuelta in non HD has periods of going really st.

I remember watching it three years back and it was like watching a cartoon, awful. However with Eurosport HD and ITV4 HD its fantastic.

Good ride by Froome yesterday, but yes, I am with Don. Froome has ridden himself to good form, evidence of that is him blowing Aru, Valv etc into the weeds, but the only one he can't topple is mr broken leg...!

What was wrong with Contador in the TDF in 2013 then? Froome absolutely destroyed him on Ax 3 Domaines.

[Gizmoish]

Kermit power said:

Vocal Minority said:

I know I am in a minority of 1, but I like the Phil and wots-his-bananas team, yes some of the details can be sketchy, but I quite like the feel of it.

Whilst on Eurosport, whilst I acknowledge Sean Kelley to be most knowledgeable - my god the mumbling....

I like the ITV coverage on all the other races I watch. It's just the Vuelta which is crap, which leads me to think it's all about the feed they receive, not about what they do with it.

Yep, I expect so. Eurosport get the same feed from the home broadcaster. Commentary: YMMV.

FWIW, I watch Eurosport live (when at home etc) and the ITV highlights because I like Imlach and the Ned'n'Chris show.

Vuelta is the third-ranked GT, Spain is a poor country. All adds up.

[Vocal Minority]

Was Contador not just getting back into it after his ban? no substitute for racing and all that?

[Gizmoish]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

Sway said:

Don1 said:

I am the only one a little skeptical over just how fresh & powerful Contador is? Especially when he still wasn't fully cleared at the start by the doctors, pending a scan that didn't occur.

I know he's good, but really? Sticking another chunk of time on Froome when Froome had destroyed the rest of the field. I mean I know he sat behind him the entire way, but even so....

Really?

You're questioning a Grand Tour winner, whose only possible issue was not having good control of diet sources, loved in his home country, on his home tour?

With his country's superb track record at finding and punishing dopers?

Of course he can blow Froome away. He has panache.

Plus he looks really nice on a bike, all fluid and st. Froome looks like a dying dog. So slow.

He does look nice on a bike. That much I'll give you.

Yes, much as he's a cheating lying slimy cheating lying... I wish I looked half as slinky when climbing.

Froome's stem was getting a proper examination yesterday

[okgo]

Vocal Minority said:

Was Contador not just getting back into it after his ban? no substitute for racing and all that?

There is substitute for racing, its called training! And the UCI ban didn't extend to him not being able to ride his bike.

No denying he looks class.

What Froome seems to be missing is that ability to up the tempo temporarily. I remember in the Dauphine I think it was he covered EVERY attack himself, then still won the stage, and obviously we all remember his first attack which distanced the rest of the front group, it was insane. But now it seems he can't go that bit deeper and up it to cover attacks.

One thing is for sure, he has 10 times the willpower and self belief many have, so he will be back, and I'm sure stronger than he is now.

[BMWBen]

Vocal Minority said:

Was Contador not just getting back into it after his ban? no substitute for racing and all that?

My conspiracy theory is that they properly pumped him with EPO while being treated for his leg. I mean why would doping control go and check out a guy in hospital when the Tour is still running and they're fully occupied with that?



It's what I'd do... Just saying...

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Kermit power said:

Gizmoish said:

Tour of Britain TV coverage.

Low budget?

Although said in jest, I've been wondering the exact opposite. Why is the coverage of the Vuelta so utterly ste?

I've only got terrestrial TV on which to watch cycling, so am more or less limited to the Tour, Vuelta, TOB, UK Tour Series and World Championships. Every year, I'm glued to the Tour, Tour Series and TOB (and the Worlds when I remember they're on BBC!), and have my wife now hooked on them as well (the only sport she watches), yet every year I sit watching the Vuelta wondering what I ever saw in cycling.

It's NOT the quality of the racing that does this either. It's the quality of the coverage! I don't think it's particularly the commentary either. The actual Spanish TV coverage (which I assume is the same feed that Eurosport gets?) makes me feel like I'm watching a replay of a race from the Eighties with its wobbly camera shots, views of tops of buildings from helicopters as the sprint goes past hidden by said buildings and generally missing half the incidents in the race!

Added to that is the fact that the Spanish organisers seemingly don't create the massive tourism bible for commentators that the Tour does, so when there's nothing going on in the racing, they're left with nothing to talk about bar the fact that there's nothing going on in the racing! At least on the Tour you get told all about the mad old Count who built the chateau they're cycling past at the time.

Is it any better on Eurosport (which I'll have from Thursday)? Or do I just have to accept that TV coverage of the Vuelta is a bit st compared to all other cycling on TV? Also, I'll get to watch the Giro next year, which I've not had before. Is the coverage on that any good?

Spanish Practices In terms of coverage quality the Vuelta is always a step down from The Giro & The Tour. It must have higher budget than the Tour of Britain but the coverage always has a fell of "we did our best"...

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Kermit power said:

Gizmoish said:

Tour of Britain TV coverage.

Low budget?

Although said in jest, I've been wondering the exact opposite. Why is the coverage of the Vuelta so utterly ste?

I've only got terrestrial TV on which to watch cycling, so am more or less limited to the Tour, Vuelta, TOB, UK Tour Series and World Championships. Every year, I'm glued to the Tour, Tour Series and TOB (and the Worlds when I remember they're on BBC!), and have my wife now hooked on them as well (the only sport she watches), yet every year I sit watching the Vuelta wondering what I ever saw in cycling.

It's NOT the quality of the racing that does this either. It's the quality of the coverage! I don't think it's particularly the commentary either. The actual Spanish TV coverage (which I assume is the same feed that Eurosport gets?) makes me feel like I'm watching a replay of a race from the Eighties with its wobbly camera shots, views of tops of buildings from helicopters as the sprint goes past hidden by said buildings and generally missing half the incidents in the race!

Added to that is the fact that the Spanish organisers seemingly don't create the massive tourism bible for commentators that the Tour does, so when there's nothing going on in the racing, they're left with nothing to talk about bar the fact that there's nothing going on in the racing! At least on the Tour you get told all about the mad old Count who built the chateau they're cycling past at the time.

Is it any better on Eurosport (which I'll have from Thursday)? Or do I just have to accept that TV coverage of the Vuelta is a bit st compared to all other cycling on TV? Also, I'll get to watch the Giro next year, which I've not had before. Is the coverage on that any good?

^^There's your problem right there^^

[Gizmoish]

BMWBen said:

Vocal Minority said:

Was Contador not just getting back into it after his ban? no substitute for racing and all that?

My conspiracy theory is that they properly pumped him with EPO while being treated for his leg. I mean why would doping control go and check out a guy in hospital when the Tour is still running and they're fully occupied with that?



It's what I'd do... Just saying...

Well, it would be entirely understandable if he was still on a collection of painkillers... he was saying at that start that he still had some pain.

So, who's going to ask him if he's got any TUEs?

It's interesting that Nibali (no suggestion of doping except by dominant performance - relative to available opposition - and association with Vino) got quite a few questions during the Tour, but Contador (banned drugs cheat, stripped of results, no apology) hasn't had any...

[Dr Imran T]

okgo said:

There is substitute for racing, its called training! And the UCI ban didn't extend to him not being able to ride his bike.

No denying he looks class.

What Froome seems to be missing is that ability to up the tempo temporarily. I remember in the Dauphine I think it was he covered EVERY attack himself, then still won the stage, and obviously we all remember his first attack which distanced the rest of the front group, it was insane. But now it seems he can't go that bit deeper and up it to cover attacks.

One thing is for sure, he has 10 times the willpower and self belief many have, so he will be back, and I'm sure stronger than he is now.

Good point re. training, he actually trained VERY hard during his ban. Plus a lot of the ban was backdated.

Also, I don't think Froome has had this level of competition before too, he's against an 'in form' Contador. In addition, he has had to fight this Vuelta a lot of the time on his own[more so than usual] - Sky was a huge asset to him in his 2013 TdF victory their role was crucial..

Agree with the [funny] comments about contador looking good on a bike, even my wife noted his slick style!!

[okgo]

The point is, Contador has absolutely no right to be in form. They both presumably were in top form for the TDF, they both get injured, one worse than the other, and the one who got injured worse than the other is now not just better, but seemingly MUCH better. Given Bertie was just about equal to Froome pre tour I cannot work out how we arrive where we are now in the Vuelta.

The team thing is interesting, yes Porte had a big effect on that Ax 3 stage, but be under no illusion that the draft you get up a mountain is making a fairly small difference, so as hard as Porte was riding, it would have been hurting Froome in second wheel a lot, and more than Bertie who was behind him. Yet Froome was able to ride away, with ease. Just like Ventoux against Quintana.

I do rate Contador as a fantastic rider, and had last years tour and the pre tour races this year not happened I'd have no problem trusting his performance, but it doesn't sit right to me based on what we know and have seen in the past.

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 9th September 12:16

[Rocksteadyeddie]

BMWBen said:

Vocal Minority said:

Was Contador not just getting back into it after his ban? no substitute for racing and all that?

My conspiracy theory is that they properly pumped him with EPO while being treated for his leg. I mean why would doping control go and check out a guy in hospital when the Tour is still running and they're fully occupied with that?



It's what I'd do... Just saying...

Doubtful it was EPO which has the most benefit in allowing you to go harder for longer in training. We know - or at least assume - that Contador was not doing much training as he was injured. More likely HGH which would have had the benefit of aiding recovery too, or some as yet undiscovered wonder drug (see DiggerForum for more details). Of course we'll never know the truth. The one thing that is clear to me is that he cannot have been as badly injured as it was at first suggested by his team. Even with any drugs benefit I just can't see how he could have got back to this level in the time he has had available.

Interestingly Froome is getting better as the race goes on and I would expect him to finish the race stronger than Contador. This mirrors more closely what we would expect the recovery from a serious injury to look like. That said he hasn't got enough time, or difficult enough stages to overhaul Contador now.

[Grandfondo]

So to recap the last couple of pages, when Contador rides well he is doping but when Froome rides away from the best in the world it's because he is class!

Does anyone really think any of the top boys are "pane e aqua" or are they just finding "stuff" marginal gains if you like that are still not banned?