The MMA thread
Discussion
Lost_BMW said:
Stu R said:
how fast MMA is knocking boxing into the shadows in terms of audience figures, investment potential etc.
Is it? Really?Volume and sheer number and regularity of well promoted big TV shows - especially featured over here - maybe.
Local events/small hall type shows maybe - though grass roots boxing still happens quite a lot and gets a fair foot fall on a local and regional level here.
But for the really big bills? How many rival the like of Mayweather or Pacquiao fights or the Haye Chisora match. Also in Germany, Europe and Scandinavia it's still very big.
In terms of fight buyrate, UFC title fights average 450,000 buys. Sonnen vs Silva 2 brought in 1.1 million PPV buys in the US, which is more than the last Pacquiao fight, but miles away from the 1.4 million the last Mayweather fight brought in. The biggest PPV buyrate the UFC has ever had is 1.6 million for UFC100, so it's on a different planet to the 2.4 million PPV sales that Mayweather vs De La Hoya got, and I can't see UFC getting anywhere near that, but by playing the averages and putting on more bigger fights than boxing, they're playing a cute game.
Europe has little hope for them IMO, save for the eastern european countries - Germany kind of set precedent there by banning it from being shown on TV in 2010, and there's so many barriers to entry it's never going to overtake boxing, but there's markets where it is, and might.
What's more impressive to me is that in Brazil alone they had a shade under 20 million people tuning in to watch the Silva vs Sonnen rematch. Incredible numbers, even the Brazil TUF opened to something like 15m. Bet Dana's pissed he can't convert that to PPV revenue
Halb said:
Quite. Boxing is also socially acceptable on the box. Boxers are sports stars.
MMA stars (the ones that a small part of the public are aware of) don't have that same attraction about them. The UFC needs to cosy up to one of the big five channels.
My interest in MMA has waned a bit. I still look for the results of my favourite fighters, but without a regular programme, it's all happening someplace else. Might as well be Mars.
It's dead market in the UK unless UFC cuts their own throat on price, or tries other avenues and invests heavily in marketing it, which they won't. MMA stars (the ones that a small part of the public are aware of) don't have that same attraction about them. The UFC needs to cosy up to one of the big five channels.
My interest in MMA has waned a bit. I still look for the results of my favourite fighters, but without a regular programme, it's all happening someplace else. Might as well be Mars.
BAMMA is about the best we've got to offer on a domestic level, and everything I've seen them put their name to has been s
te. They've got a deal with Channel 5, but it's not worth much and it'll do little to raise the profile of MMA here. It'll take someone with deep pockets that's willing to invest in something that'll take years to build up, which none of the terrestrials can afford to do. Sky are about the only hope it's got of escaping ESPN in the short term, but I can't see them doing it. Bundling it with another service like is their best shot at getting people over here onboard - Xbox Live, PSN etc are packed with people in the demographics they appeal to most, and are likely to be online en masse when the fights take place, but given they've spectacularly failed to understand that outside of the US most countries think PPV is a bunch of arse, there's little hope of them getting that message anytime soon.
Thankfully I'm moving to the US soon, so I won't have to sit here tripping balls after 20 cans of energy drink before going into a coma at 6am and missing work just to watch a card
Edited by Stu R on Thursday 19th July 13:58
Stu R said:
Jesus, that last post was way longer than intended, just ignore it
No, it was a good one, cheers!Confirms the steady-steady volume approach but surprised me with how many ppvs have been paid for some of the UFC bills - Silva Sonnen clearly benefited from the Sonnen effect and that Silva is such a national star in Brazil; obviously it's massive there but Brazil does seem a particularly special case. Noteworthy that where many fighters are sponsored by supplement firms and shirt sellers Silva is badged by Burger King and Philips!
I do think White is fecking it up over here and it will be a dead duck if ESPN stop carrying it. As for the UK matches I can no longer bring myself to watch - s
t film, st production and stty loud mouth 'geezers' inevitably doing the voice overs, ads and commentary. Like that spastic talk show with Dave Loud and 'is m8s' clearly aimed at sub 25s with sub 80 IQs. Garbage that gets in the way of the fights/athletes even for someone as obsessed as me.I don't like how the boxing press have to constantly decry MMA and demean it - way over defensive - but have to admit at its best it's still my first love.
Lost_BMW said:
s for the UK matches I can no longer bring myself to watch - st film, st production and stty loud mouth 'geezers' inevitably doing the voice overs, ads and commentary.
That's what turns me off too. Such at the picture posted above. Just a bunch of chavvy twunts. All wearing the same affliction t-shirt all trying to swagger and swear like a British Dana. Just stop being so silly.t film, st production and stty loud mouth 'geezers' inevitably doing the voice overs, ads and commentary.
Chris77 said:
Anyone think this weekends UFC PPV was the worst in a long long time???
Yep - had thought about posting a similar message before spotting yours. For me, the very worst ever - bored stiff through most of it and had me thinking about not renewing the ESPN subscription when due after a few I've not really engaged in. A shame as I used to be obsessed just a few years back but it seems to be going through a dull patch spectator wise - I think my problem is I'm getting tired of the style that seems so common these days in undercard matches, of tentatively circling round unwilling to commit (and too desperate not to lose and spoil the career progression, though I might be being unfair?) then the odd scrappy exchange often followed by long periods on the ground where neither does much to gain an advantage and the ref stands them up. The only good point was that annoying immature kid from the TUF series, who is good if irritating.
I know wrestling is a very good base for a successful MMA fighter but it hardly makes for adventurous fights unless the fighter can - and is willing - to try other things too and though I know BJJ is effective it too bores the life out of me when the practitioner tries and tries again yet can't get a position with the slipperiness of the opponent etc. Easy to be an armchair critic but I don't want to pay for much more of the offerings they've given lately where the promotion and staging outperforms the actual fights.
Lombardo was a dud - fast hands, low base, strong but zero apparent desire and Boetsch boring, has no style or 'gift' to look forward too - like a poor man's Forest Griffin - and unwilling to exchange.
Kongo? Why the hell is he still in the UFC - the only times he's been in a good fight lately are when he's been tagged but found a shot back. Otherwise he too is far too tentative for the armoury he does possess and seems to have big stamina issues.
Never liked Faber or his style so glad to see him beaten but, god, what a boring 25 minutes.
Makes me realise why I still prefer boxing so much.
Lost_BMW said:
Yep - had thought about posting a similar message before spotting yours. For me, the very worst ever - bored stiff through most of it and had me thinking about not renewing the ESPN subscription when due after a few I've not really engaged in.
A shame as I used to be obsessed just a few years back but it seems to be going through a dull patch spectator wise - I think my problem is I'm getting tired of the style that seems so common these days in undercard matches, of tentatively circling round unwilling to commit (and too desperate not to lose and spoil the career progression, though I might be being unfair?) then the odd scrappy exchange often followed by long periods on the ground where neither does much to gain an advantage and the ref stands them up. The only good point was that annoying immature kid from the TUF series, who is good if irritating.
I know wrestling is a very good base for a successful MMA fighter but it hardly makes for adventurous fights unless the fighter can - and is willing - to try other things too and though I know BJJ is effective it too bores the life out of me when the practitioner tries and tries again yet can't get a position with the slipperiness of the opponent etc. Easy to be an armchair critic but I don't want to pay for much more of the offerings they've given lately where the promotion and staging outperforms the actual fights.
Lombardo was a dud - fast hands, low base, strong but zero apparent desire and Boetsch boring, has no style or 'gift' to look forward too - like a poor man's Forest Griffin - and unwilling to exchange.
Kongo? Why the hell is he still in the UFC - the only times he's been in a good fight lately are when he's been tagged but found a shot back. Otherwise he too is far too tentative for the armoury he does possess and seems to have big stamina issues.
Never liked Faber or his style so glad to see him beaten but, god, what a boring 25 minutes.
Makes me realise why I still prefer boxing so much.
you've pretty much echoed my sentiments here mate.you've probably noticed i haven't even bothered posting here lately.i still lurk but my interest in the sport has waned to the extent i can't really think of any sort of discussion i want to get embroiled in.this is mainly down to the lack of excitement for me.card after card seem to just roll into one another.i've lost touch with who's fighting who and i find myself whizzing through fights on fast forward as my attention strays.A shame as I used to be obsessed just a few years back but it seems to be going through a dull patch spectator wise - I think my problem is I'm getting tired of the style that seems so common these days in undercard matches, of tentatively circling round unwilling to commit (and too desperate not to lose and spoil the career progression, though I might be being unfair?) then the odd scrappy exchange often followed by long periods on the ground where neither does much to gain an advantage and the ref stands them up. The only good point was that annoying immature kid from the TUF series, who is good if irritating.
I know wrestling is a very good base for a successful MMA fighter but it hardly makes for adventurous fights unless the fighter can - and is willing - to try other things too and though I know BJJ is effective it too bores the life out of me when the practitioner tries and tries again yet can't get a position with the slipperiness of the opponent etc. Easy to be an armchair critic but I don't want to pay for much more of the offerings they've given lately where the promotion and staging outperforms the actual fights.
Lombardo was a dud - fast hands, low base, strong but zero apparent desire and Boetsch boring, has no style or 'gift' to look forward too - like a poor man's Forest Griffin - and unwilling to exchange.
Kongo? Why the hell is he still in the UFC - the only times he's been in a good fight lately are when he's been tagged but found a shot back. Otherwise he too is far too tentative for the armoury he does possess and seems to have big stamina issues.
Never liked Faber or his style so glad to see him beaten but, god, what a boring 25 minutes.
Makes me realise why I still prefer boxing so much.
Ironically I posted recently about the poor state of boxing and how much I had enjoyed the UFC the last few years. Well I totally agree with previous post's that was an awful card. I have no idea what Lombard was trying to do, 25 fights unbeaten and then to just stand there in a that thai stance watching boetsch circle you...on his UFC debut too! unreal. Kongo's fight was pretty dull too, where has his kickboxing gone? Ebersole is usually well...interesting and he seemed massively uninterested. The faber fight wasn't too bad, just predictable. Barao for me was alway's favourite but it was 5 rounds of pretty much the same, drifting to the expected judges decision. I'm so hoping that it was 'one of those nights' and the next card is much improved!
Edited by davey68 on Monday 23 July 19:30
Lost_BMW said:
A shame as I used to be obsessed just a few years back but it seems to be going through a dull patch spectator wise.
Ditto.Lost_BMW said:
Kongo? Why the hell is he still in the UFC - the only times he's been in a good fight lately are when he's been tagged but found a shot back. Otherwise he too is far too tentative for the armoury he does possess and seems to have big stamina issues.
What is it? He looks extremely fit. Is it low fat/big muscle issue?He is an extremely nice man.
Yep, it was a terrible card, worst in years (though not ever, some of the early UFCs were horrendous and there's been a few stinkers in recent years that people forget about).
The prelims weren't bad though, and the Faber fight I thought was decent, wasn't expecting much else given it was a card full of hasbeens and also-rans. Kongo's been average for years. Most of the people on that card would look average at strikeforce level. I do think Shawn Jordan has potential, but he needs a couple of years, some serious training and to cosy up to the right trainers and coaches. No way we should be seeing him on PPV cards yet.
The prelims weren't bad though, and the Faber fight I thought was decent, wasn't expecting much else given it was a card full of hasbeens and also-rans. Kongo's been average for years. Most of the people on that card would look average at strikeforce level. I do think Shawn Jordan has potential, but he needs a couple of years, some serious training and to cosy up to the right trainers and coaches. No way we should be seeing him on PPV cards yet.
Edited by Stu R on Monday 23 July 19:48
Halb said:
Lost_BMW said:
Kongo? Why the hell is he still in the UFC - the only times he's been in a good fight lately are when he's been tagged but found a shot back. Otherwise he too is far too tentative for the armoury he does possess and seems to have big stamina issues.
What is it? He looks extremely fit. Is it low fat/big muscle issue?He is an extremely nice man.
He can punch hard, kick and knee very hard and has the height, reach and range that with the speed he also has (or did?) should allow him to be far more positive and aggressive. I think the knowledge that his chin is so suspect is in the back of his mind and causes him to be tentative and over defensive. The number of times I've heard his corner say not to grapple, hold, lean on etc. and then he goes out and does just that despite having pretty much zero ground game. Very frustrating.
How is Vera fighting Shogun next? Has he just been thrown it as an apology because he got destroyed by someone drugged up?
Lost quite a bit of interest in the last few months, like others I have been obsessed for years now. Bored of seeing Edgar rematches, the heavy weight class seems to have gone a bit flat now JDS has ruined everyone and Overeem seems to have been rumbled. Not sure if its connected but since UFC/Zuffa acquired the WEC and Strikeforce everything has got a bit dull.
Lost quite a bit of interest in the last few months, like others I have been obsessed for years now. Bored of seeing Edgar rematches, the heavy weight class seems to have gone a bit flat now JDS has ruined everyone and Overeem seems to have been rumbled. Not sure if its connected but since UFC/Zuffa acquired the WEC and Strikeforce everything has got a bit dull.
I think another problem is they are trying to run too many shows too quickly especially with these mid week Fuel TV cards as well now and so - on top of injuries and drug busts - having to scrape the barrel to find 'names', many of whom are shop worn or weren't too good in the first place. Killing the Golden Goose?
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